Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[GemG]

That's what I did GemG... I'd been towing with one of them privileged folk what can drive what they want for quite some time before I took a test.

Lesson in morning (8 - 12) the test at 2pm. I was SO nervous!! Glad I did it though, my reversing improved immensely!!

Get plenty of L plate practice in with hubby in passenger seat and you could end up just needing a morning training with test in afternoon

Thanks both... yes I really should practice and then just do it! ... it just always seems madness that my mother (who I wouldn't trust reversing her car!) is legal to tow a couple of horses and I'm not just by virtue of when we passed our tests !

...would make a good resolution for 2018 - to get test done. It would just give so much more freedom to disappear off with horse without having to plan a military operation!

 

[tallyho!]

Thanks both... yes I really should practice and then just do it! ... it just always seems madness that my mother (who I wouldn't trust reversing her car!) is legal to tow a couple of horses and I'm not just by virtue of when we passed our tests !

...would make a good resolution for 2018 - to get test done. It would just give so much more freedom to disappear off with horse without having to plan a military operation!

It cost me just under £300 all in all. Shop around though I was quoted £600 by one company...

 

[km-j]

Hi
Would you be able to check my towing limit please? Specs as follows:
BE
Unladen 1421
GVW 1965
GTW 1500
Trailer weight 1600
Empty trailer 767

Thanks
Kelly.

 

[ROG]

Hi
Would you be able to check my towing limit please? Specs as follows:
BE
Unladen 1421
GVW 1965
GTW 1500
Trailer weight 1600
Empty trailer 767

Thanks
Kelly.

I think GTW is meant to say towing limit of 1500 so assuming that you can load a max of 733 into the trailer

FOR INFO = if the trailer was down plated to 1500 that set up could be towed by a B licence holder

 

[littlen]

Asking for a friend this time!

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1800?
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2250
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2200kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- unsure of this!
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "
Ifor williams 401 770kg

Is this legal?

 

[ROG]

Asking for a friend this time!

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1800?
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2250
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2200kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres- unsure of this!
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "
Ifor williams 401 770kg

Is this legal?

5 - if the trailer is plated at more than 1250 then it is illegal

At 1250 the max load for the trailer will be 480 kg

If not been down plated then the original trailer MAM will be 1600

Need to know number 5

 

[littlen]

I think the max load of the 401/403 is 1600 so she is illegal.

Pony is somewhere around 450kg but it would be tight even with the trailer downplated?

She is an ifor fan, I've mentioned the Derby but he horse hates rear unload!

 

[Dunpony]

I've got a slightly odd request! On a pre 97 license am I towing with a 6.5t van conversion. The van has a train weight of 9t but I'm restricted to 8.25t. Am I legal so long as I don't overload either the van or the trailer and stay under 8.25t with the whole thing? Thanks for your help

 

[ROG]

I've got a slightly odd request! On a pre 97 license am I towing with a 6.5t van conversion. The van has a train weight of 9t but I'm restricted to 8.25t. Am I legal so long as I don't overload either the van or the trailer and stay under 8.25t with the whole thing? Thanks for your help

The 8.25 tonnes is a total plated MAM/GVW restriction so if the trailer is plated at more than 1.75 tonnes then you cannot legally drive it on your pre 97 licence

 

[spugs]

B licence
Nissan x trail and 500kg pony
Would you be able to down plate a 505 to do this legally or is a single/light weight trailer the only possibility?
Thanks

 

[ROG]

B licence
Nissan x trail and 500kg pony
Would you be able to down plate a 505 to do this legally or is a single/light weight trailer the only possibility?
Thanks

Bit difficult without knowing GVW of your model of Xtrail

Do you have V5 keepers doc handy ? - if yes then what is figure listed next to MAX PERMISSIBLE MASS ?
OR
If vehicle nearby then what is top figure of the four listed on the weight plate usually hidden under bonnet or in a door frame ?

 

[spugs]

I haven't bought one yet, I'll be buying to tow so I'm open to options. It will be an older model though.

 

[ROG]

I haven't bought one yet, I'll be buying to tow so I'm open to options. It will be an older model though.

I am going to ASSUME is has a GVW of 2050kg

Xtrail GVW 2050
Horse 500 +
Needs trailer max 905 empty and plated at 1450 MAM

A HB505 can be down plated to 1450

2050+1450=3500 so legal for B licence towing

ANSWER ASSUMES GVW IS 2050

 

[spugs]

Thanks a lot Rog 👍

 

[SplashofSoy]

ROG please help

I have B+E licence
Car ssanyong korando 4x4 2015
Towing capacity 2000kg
Gross vehicle weight 2260
Kerb weight is I think 1747kg
Towing Ifor 510 1000kg
Horse 750kg 16.3 maxi cob

Tack, water, two passengers in car. Only a small haynet in trailer.

Is this all legal, any areas of concern? I think its legal. I have 250kg ish spare in trailer and trailer isn't going to outweigh car for safety. Would always want 200kg spare on capacity.
Towball load says 80kg is this relevant?

 

[ROG]

ROG please help

I have B+E licence
Car ssanyong korando 4x4 2015
Towing capacity 2000kg
Gross vehicle weight 2260
Kerb weight is I think 1747kg
Towing Ifor 510 1000kg
Horse 750kg 16.3 maxi cob

Tack, water, two passengers in car. Only a small haynet in trailer.

Is this all legal, any areas of concern? I think its legal. I have 250kg ish spare in trailer and trailer isn't going to outweigh car for safety. Would always want 200kg spare on capacity.
Towball load says 80kg is this relevant?

Towball - needs nose weight scale (example £8 from Halfords) to check that all is ok but 80kg should be fine

As you have B+E its simple
Max tow capacity 2000
Empty trailer 1000
Horse 750
Leaves 250 spare for trailer load

What goes in vehicle comes under the vehicle GVW and has nothing to do with the trailer

When towing with with all you have mentioned you are likely to be about 2000 for vehicle and 1750 for trailer with possibly around 50 to 70 being transferred from trailer to vehicle through the hitch so making 2050 V 1700 with a 350 difference

 

[SplashofSoy]

Thanks ROG. I thought it looked ok but wanted to check. Sorry for being stupid but could you explain how the 50-70 being transferred through the hitch works? Main thing is i am within legal limits and car will be heavier than trailer for my peace of mind as i like you don't like the thought of the trailer being heavier than the car.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. I thought it looked ok but wanted to check. Sorry for being stupid but could you explain how the 50-70 being transferred through the hitch works? Main thing is i am within legal limits and car will be heavier than trailer for my peace of mind as i like you don't like the thought of the trailer being heavier than the car.

Try and lift the tow hitch - it has some weight - that weight presses down onto the car towball when hitched up - that puts weight onto the towing vehicle GVW - usually between 50 and 100 kg
Transferring that amount of weight from trailer to car

 

[avalonskies]

Hi ROG, just looking for some clarification please? Im trying to establish whether I can get away with a single trailer and a B licence. Ive got most of my numbers sorted, but just wanted to check, Does my kerb/unladen vehicle weight have to be higher than my trailer weight? For example, if kerb weight is 1350kg would I need to get a trailer downplated to 1300? Im only transporting a pony so all in all I'd be under the 3.5t limit for cat B, but my car is obviously quite light despite being a 4x4, so unsure how important the unladen vehicle v trailer weight is? Essentially, If I have to downplate to 1300 I don't think it will be feasible once myself and tack accounted for. But if I could downplate to 1400 that would work in terms of my requirements. Thank you!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, just looking for some clarification please? Im trying to establish whether I can get away with a single trailer and a B licence. Ive got most of my numbers sorted, but just wanted to check, Does my kerb/unladen vehicle weight have to be higher than my trailer weight? For example, if kerb weight is 1350kg would I need to get a trailer downplated to 1300? Im only transporting a pony so all in all I'd be under the 3.5t limit for cat B, but my car is obviously quite light despite being a 4x4, so unsure how important the unladen vehicle v trailer weight is? Essentially, If I have to downplate to 1300 I don't think it will be feasible once myself and tack accounted for. But if I could downplate to 1400 that would work in terms of my requirements. Thank you!

Kerb/trailer MAM law revoked in 2013

Please post vehicle GVW and what trailer you intend to get so I can help you

 

[LauraElaineMorris]

Hi

I'm looking at buying a trailer and a car. I would only be travelling a 475kg pony.

Option 1
1 - What licence they hold - B (passed in 2004)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1276kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1751kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2951kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " 470kg

Option 2
1 - What licence they hold - B (passed in 2004)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1387kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1860kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 3370kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " 470kg

Don't think option 2 is legal but struggling to find a car in the option 1. Is it possible to downplayed a trailer of the manufacturer is unknown.

Thanks for your help.

 

[ROG]

Hi

I'm looking at buying a trailer and a car. I would only be travelling a 475kg pony.

Option 1
1 - What licence they hold - B (passed in 2004)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1276kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1751kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 2951kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " 470kg

Option 2
1 - What licence they hold - B (passed in 2004)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle 1387kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 1860kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle 3370kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " 470kg

Don't think option 2 is legal but struggling to find a car in the option 1. Is it possible to downplayed a trailer of the manufacturer is unknown.

Thanks for your help.

That is a very light trailer at 470 ! - what trailer is it ?

Not possible to legally down plate a trailer if the manufacturer is no longer trading

In option 1 you state number 4 is 2951 so that must be the GTW meaning the max towing capacity is 1200 (2951-1751=1200)
That is not a problem because 470+475=945 so well under the 1200 limit

You are correct that in option 2 the GVW 1860 + MAM 1700 = 3560 so 60 over the B licence towing limit


Am very curious as to what trailer this is ..........

 

[godfreyy]

Hi ROG!

Thought I totally I understood the weights, but turns out I'm really struggling with buying a car! (Have the B+E licence, have the trailer)

If I have a trailer with an unladen weight of 860 and my horses combined weight is around the 1200 mark and obviously got to make allowance for hay, water etc. - realistically what is the minimum towing capacity I'm looking for in a car?

 

[ROG]

hi rog!

Thought i totally i understood the weights, but turns out i'm really struggling with buying a car! (have the b+e licence, have the trailer)

if i have a trailer with an unladen weight of 860 and my horses combined weight is around the 1200 mark and obviously got to make allowance for hay, water etc. - realistically what is the minimum towing capacity i'm looking for in a car?

2200kg

 

[Alibear]

I've been reading and I believe I'm Ok but would like to confirm , passed my test back in the 90s so have full towing license.

Landrover Freelander HSE Diesel
Rice Richardson L16.2 Trailer
1 x 14HH horse but is a QH so 500kg

Landrovers towing capacity it 2000kg , trailer is 1000kg so maths wise it adds up.
However trailer plate states max 2500kg which would be above the cars limit, not what I'm towing but it's the trailers maximum.
Can't get a new plate as Rice/Richardson are no longer operating.

 

[ROG]

I've been reading and I believe I'm Ok but would like to confirm , passed my test back in the 90s so have full towing license.

Landrover Freelander HSE Diesel
Rice Richardson L16.2 Trailer
1 x 14HH horse but is a QH so 500kg

Landrovers towing capacity it 2000kg , trailer is 1000kg so maths wise it adds up.
However trailer plate states max 2500kg which would be above the cars limit, not what I'm towing but it's the trailers maximum.
Can't get a new plate as Rice/Richardson are no longer operating.

No legal need to replate trailer

Towing capacity 2000
Trailer MAM 2500
Trailer empty 1000
Max load for trailer 1000

I suspect that some are taking note of the internet MYTH that says the MAM of a trailer cannot be more than the vehicle towing capacity because ... get this ... it has the CAPABILITY of being overloaded ...... well, my car has the CAPABILITY of doing 70 in a 30 limit so perhaps I should be prosectuted every time I am in a limit lower than 70 !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Destario]

I've been asked by a friend of mine if her father can teach her to tow with L plates on before she books a training and test day for her trailer test. Her father has grandfather rights (passed test in 70s I think) and she passed her test post 97. But he is insisting he can't sit in the passenger side is they have L plates on. Some definitive answer would be greatly appreciated as they are at rather an impasse! I think he can but I've said I'm not 100% sure so haven't been any help at all!

 

[ROG]

I've been asked by a friend of mine if her father can teach her to tow with L plates on before she books a training and test day for her trailer test. Her father has grandfather rights (passed test in 70s I think) and she passed her test post 97. But he is insisting he can't sit in the passenger side is they have L plates on. Some definitive answer would be greatly appreciated as they are at rather an impasse! I think he can but I've said I'm not 100% sure so haven't been any help at all!

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

From: DVLA Email[mailto:donotreply.contactcentre@dvla.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2012 08:31
To: **************
Subject: Re: Email DVLA - Drivers Form 14 (KMM2135528V52254L0KM)


Dear ************

Thank you for your email received on 3/1/12.Your email reference number is 808399


In order to drive a vehicle andtrailer under category B + E you must be supervised by a driverwith the full B + E entitlement

This can be a driver who passed adriving test before 1997 and holds full B + E.

The trailer can be laden.

You must display L plates.

I hope this helps.


Do not reply to this email. Ifyou wish to contact us again about this response then please use our ReplyForm or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:

https://emaildvla.direct.gov.uk/emaildvla/cegemail/directgov/en/reply_form_drivers.html

When filling in the form the email reference number 808399 will be required.

Regards

L Hodgetts
Customer Enquiries Group
DVLA

 

[ROG]

I've tried looking through old posts on here but my brain is fried after 16 hours of work and I'm not capable of working things out for myself this evening!

Looking at trailer weights, does my car need to be capable of towing:

Trailer laden weight + weight of horse + weight of anything else in trailer

Or:

Just trailer laden weight as assume that would include horse etc. in it?

Thanks!

Easy way to set your mind at rest is to post this info -

LICENCE
B or B+E =

VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =

TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =

 

[CharJoey]

Hello There Rog,

Please could you help me with my query?

I have a '62 REG AUDI Q3 S LINE QUATTRO (4 WHEEL DRIVE), and a 15'3 WB who weighs approx 500kg max.
I will only be towing only my horse on his own and just me in the car. I am looking at getting a tow bar fitted and a trailer, the question is what type of trailer could I go for, can I get a light enough trailer to not do my trailer test as I passed in Sept 1997. Or do I have to do the test. Just weighing up options at the moment, and any advice you can give would be very much appreciated! I am very concerned that the trailer will push my car down the hill as I have read some horror stories, but before I spend money getting a tow bar and a trailer test, I want to make sure its safe with my car.

1 - B
2 - 2225 KG
3 - 1625KG
4 - 2225 KG
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - UNSURE WHAT TRAILER TO BUY DEPENDENT ON WHAT i CAN TOW, looking at probably an Ifor 505 or a Bateson or Cheval Liberte, but this all depends on what type if any I can tow.
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer " - TBC

Many Thanks