Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Thanks ROG!!
Don't know where I got the 3.5 from either - good to know it isn't relevant.
Will check tonight but I think the capacity of car is 1800 based on online searches, I'll check the plate and the V5.

Load going into trailer will be 620kg horse plus about 5kg haynet. Thats all, rug and boots on the horse won't make much diff. The rest goes in the car.

If those numbers are right does that means I'm just about ok?

1130+620+5=1775 so just under 1800 limit

 

[ROG]

sorry if i'm posting in the wrong place, the forum has changed a bit since i last visited. I've put a post in the 'tack room' but it may be better here.
Does anyone tow with a new shape (2015) kia sorento?
It seems that the latest reincarnation of the kia sorrento can only have a detachable tow bar rather than a fitted version. We have found a sorento that fits our criteria and has a tow bar to replace my unreliable discovery 3, however, i'm rather worried about the detachable tow bar as have heard they're not as safe for towing livestock. There is no option to change it on the latest model for a permanently fitted version, and another discovery is sadly out of the question. I'm hoping to hear from others with the new sorento. Older sorentos were more truck like and had the permanent fitted tow bars, but as i say, that's no longer an option.

trailer guy ------- one for you

 

[trailer guy]

Indeed!

Actually, it was the Land Rover Discovery 3 that had a detachable tow bar issue. There was a recall, as the detachable neck had a wear point which became dangerous, causing some to fail and detach themselves from the Discovery.

This is likely the source of the concern that you have. Ironic that it was actually your previous tow vehicle!

All tow bars are now manufactured in accordance with Directive 94/20/EC, meaning it has been manufactured to a known technical and quality standard.

Ergo, detachable tow bars (other than the Disco 3!) are no more prone to failure than a fixed tow bar.

And just to throw something else in to the mix: a standard, non-detachable, towbar is available for a 2015 Kia Sorento....

 

[legaldancer]

Thank you very much trailer guy. Yes, I think it was the Discovery detachable tow bars that have given the detachable ones a bad reputation amongst horse owners. Mine was a fitted flange tow bar on that vehicle.
I was given some duff info on the Kia tow bar it would seem, by both the salesman and the local tow bar fitter. There is indeed a flange tow bar for the Kia. We have settled now on a '14 plate manual Sorento with a bolted on tow bar and hopefully it will do the job, and will allay my worries.

 

[Nasicus]

Just wondering if the parents car would be up to towing, sorry if I've got the answers all wrong, I got what I did fill in from online :s

1 - What licence they hold - B+E (Pre 97, Dad would be towing)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1389kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - Not 100% sure what this is, it's a Vauxhall Zafira B Model
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - Towing Cap 1100kg

(No idea if this car is capable of towing a trailer, so not got one in mind, but would probably go for a single horse trailer? So no exact answer to these questions!)
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer


Horse is around 700kg, 14hh heavyweight cob.

 

[ROG]

Just wondering if the parents car would be up to towing, sorry if I've got the answers all wrong, I got what I did fill in from online :s

1 - What licence they hold - B+E (Pre 97, Dad would be towing)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1389kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - Not 100% sure what this is, it's a Vauxhall Zafira B Model
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - Towing Cap 1100kg

(No idea if this car is capable of towing a trailer, so not got one in mind, but would probably go for a single horse trailer? So no exact answer to these questions!)
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer


Horse is around 700kg, 14hh heavyweight cob.

If the max tow capacity is 1100 then with a horse weighing 700 you would need a trailer weighing a max of 400 empty = impossible because the lightest I know of is 720 empty

 

[Nasicus]

If the max tow capacity is 1100 then with a horse weighing 700 you would need a trailer weighing a max of 400 empty = impossible because the lightest I know of is 720 empty

Thanks ROG, I had a feeling that would be the answer!

 

[alainax]

Just wondering if the parents car would be up to towing, sorry if I've got the answers all wrong, I got what I did fill in from online :s

1 - What licence they hold - B+E (Pre 97, Dad would be towing)
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1389kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - Not 100% sure what this is, it's a Vauxhall Zafira B Model
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - Towing Cap 1100kg

(No idea if this car is capable of towing a trailer, so not got one in mind, but would probably go for a single horse trailer? So no exact answer to these questions!)
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer


Horse is around 700kg, 14hh heavyweight cob.

That is one hefty cob!

 

[ROG]

If the max tow capacity is 1100 then with a horse weighing 700 you would need a trailer weighing a max of 400 empty = impossible because the lightest I know of is 720 empty

Just remembered lightest is Bateson Derby at 675 empty

 

[littlen]

ROG does it matter if the amount your towing weighs more than the car?

My car is about 1650kg and the trailer 900kg, plus two horses would mean I am towing around 2000kg?
Is this dangerous and could I tip over or something. Someone said the car must weigh more.
Sorry I'm utterly clueless.

Towing capacity of the car is 2200kg.

 

[ROG]

ROG does it matter if the amount your towing weighs more than the car?

My car is about 1650kg and the trailer 900kg, plus two horses would mean I am towing around 2000kg?
Is this dangerous and could I tip over or something. Someone said the car must weigh more.
Sorry I'm utterly clueless.

Towing capacity of the car is 2200kg.

Take the car empty weight then add driver, passenger + kit etc and then tell me what the weight of the towing vehicle is

 

[Nasicus]

That is one hefty cob!

She's built like a brick out house! Can't even get boots to fit her as she's got so much bone even x-full doesn't fit x.x

 

[littlen]

Just been to look at the car and it may be heavier than I thought.

The plate says-
GVW rating 2250kg
Gross combination weight vehicle and trailer 3970kg.

So from the latter I would be not legal as trailer and horses 2000kg plus car would take me over the gross combination weight (2000trailer+2250car)

It does not say what the unloaded weight of the vehicle is anywhere on the plate.

I've never been so confused about what's legal or safe and what isn't!

 

[littlen]

Ah the manual says it's 1631-1735 kerb weight?

 

[ROG]

Ah the manual says it's 1631-1735 kerb weight?

That will just the vehicle itself empty and does not include the vehicle load

 

[littlen]

So I would say that I would be carrying to adults, tack, water etc so would probably be hitting about 2000kg with the kerb weight and stuff inside the car?

So if that's the case then the trailer combo and car are of a similar weight, possibly the trailer may be slightly heavier if the horse keeps eating as it does!

Is this going to end up verging on dangerous?

 

[ROG]

So I would say that I would be carrying to adults, tack, water etc so would probably be hitting about 2000kg with the kerb weight and stuff inside the car?

So if that's the case then the trailer combo and car are of a similar weight, possibly the trailer may be slightly heavier if the horse keeps eating as it does!

Is this going to end up verging on dangerous?

No because the design safe towing weights are based on a vehicle with just a driver towing a full max load

Many are designed to be about 2200 vehicle towing a 3500 weight !

Personally I do not like towing a trailer which is heavier than vehicle but that is me

 

[littlen]

Thanks ROG, really value your opinion.

It's going to cost somewhere in the region of £1000 for the test and towbar etc so I want to make sure it's exactly right before I spend the money.

So as long as the towing capacity is 2200kg and I'm not towing over that that's all that legally matters?

The gross combination weight of the car is 3970, so does this mean I would only have 1970 for the trailer if my car is 2000kg loaded?

Why don't you like doing it out of interest?

Thanks again- sorry for so many questions!!!

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG, really value your opinion.

It's going to cost somewhere in the region of £1000 for the test and towbar etc so I want to make sure it's exactly right before I spend the money.

So as long as the towing capacity is 2200kg and I'm not towing over that that's all that legally matters?

The gross combination weight of the car is 3970, so does this mean I would only have 1970 for the trailer if my car is 2000kg loaded?

Why don't you like doing it out of interest?

Thanks again- sorry for so many questions!!!

Always the possibility of the tail wagging the dog !

With a B+E licence as long as the actual weight being pulled does not exceed the towing capacity and/or the plated MAM of the trailer then all is ok

 

[littlen]

I think I will leave it then as I'm not an experienced tower at all! I would be doing b+e but don't fancy having to correct a trailer if it's too heavy and wagging about!

 

[ROG]

I think I will leave it then as I'm not an experienced tower at all! I would be doing b+e but don't fancy having to correct a trailer if it's too heavy and wagging about!

Driven correctly it is very unlikely to wobble

 

[EmmaLou]

Hi Rog, I have just got off the phone to Bateson. Interestingly they said the law has now changed and they are no longer taking into account the plated weight of the trailer, apparently it has proved too complicated and too much work. It would now be the actual weight of car and trailer with load at the time of towing for example if you was to be put on a weight bridge. Have you heard about this? Could be good news for many!

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog, I have just got off the phone to Bateson. Interestingly they said the law has now changed and they are no longer taking into account the plated weight of the trailer, apparently it has proved too complicated and too much work. It would now be the actual weight of car and trailer with load at the time of towing for example if you was to be put on a weight bridge. Have you heard about this? Could be good news for many!

Ring them again and get someone who knows the law because that has not changed

Did you speak to the monkey or the organ grinder ?

 

[EmmaLou]

Ring them again and get someone who knows the law because that has not changed

Did you speak to the monkey or the organ grinder ?

I don't know I have just done my own research and could not find anything on the law changing it all says the exact same as when I last checked. I only called for a price!! Anyway I'll just stick with getting the MAM of a lightweight trailer plated to 1360kg as my cars GVW is 2140kg just to be on safe side

 

[tallyho!]

Hi Rog, I have just got off the phone to Bateson. Interestingly they said the law has now changed and they are no longer taking into account the plated weight of the trailer, apparently it has proved too complicated and too much work. It would now be the actual weight of car and trailer with load at the time of towing for example if you was to be put on a weight bridge. Have you heard about this? Could be good news for many!

Ring them again and get someone who knows the law because that has not changed

Did you speak to the monkey or the organ grinder ?

I don't know I have just done my own research and could not find anything on the law changing it all says the exact same as when I last checked. I only called for a price!! Anyway I'll just stick with getting the MAM of a lightweight trailer plated to 1360kg as my cars GVW is 2140kg just to be on safe side

Amazing what you can get fobbed off with

 

[GemG]

I thought I understood it all, then the more I read, the more confused I become!...

Looking to use the following,
2008 VW Passat Estate 4motion diesel

To tow a

IFor Williams HB403....

I only have the newer B licence. Husband kindly tows, but wondering if I can get down plated..?

1. B licence
2. Empty weight vehicle 1814 kg according to a website?
3. Gross vehicle weight 2240kg (from V5)
4. 2000kg
5. MAM trailer 1600kg
6. Empty trailer 767kg

On the V5 it says ...
- revenue weight 1686kg
- max permissible mass 2240kg
- mass in service 1684kg

I don't know if any of them are actually the weight unladen, I'm confused.

Can I tow legally on a B if I down plate? Horse will weigh 600kg when grown. ..

??

 

[ROG]

I thought I understood it all, then the more I read, the more confused I become!...

Looking to use the following,
2008 VW Passat Estate 4motion diesel

To tow a

IFor Williams HB403....

I only have the newer B licence. Husband kindly tows, but wondering if I can get down plated..?

1. B licence
2. Empty weight vehicle 1814 kg according to a website?
3. Gross vehicle weight 2240kg (from V5)
4. 2000kg
5. MAM trailer 1600kg
6. Empty trailer 767kg

On the V5 it says ...
- revenue weight 1686kg
- max permissible mass 2240kg
- mass in service 1684kg

I don't know if any of them are actually the weight unladen, I'm confused.

Can I tow legally on a B if I down plate? Horse will weigh 600kg when grown. ..

??

2240 (GVW) + 600 (horse) + 767 (empty trailer) = 3607 so down plating trailer to 1367 will not solve that.

3607 is over the 3500 B tow limit

Solution = get vehicle with lower GVW or tow under B+E provisional rules - hubby can sit in passenger seat

 

[GemG]

Thanks for quick reply.!! ..... looks like I need to do my trailer test too !! ... it's the only time I wish I was older lol!!

 

[ROG]

Thanks for quick reply.!! ..... looks like I need to do my trailer test too !! ... it's the only time I wish I was older lol!!

Get plenty of L plate practice in with hubby in passenger seat and you could end up just needing a morning training with test in afternoon

 

[tallyho!]

That's what I did GemG... I'd been towing with one of them privileged folk what can drive what they want for quite some time before I took a test.

Lesson in morning (8 - 12) the test at 2pm. I was SO nervous!! Glad I did it though, my reversing improved immensely!!