Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

Joined
5 September 2008
Messages
2,517
Location
South East
Hi Rog,

Please could you advise on the following..

Mini Countryman Cooper S 5 door auto
B license
Kerb weight 1350
GVW 2040
Braked towing capacity 1500kgs
Trailer unloaded 675, Bateson Derby
MAM 1700
Single horse weighs 503kgs

If I get the trailer downplated to 1400kgs seeing as I only want to take one horse would that mean it is within the rules? For example,

GVW 2040
MAM 1400
Total combined weight allowed 3440kgs
Actual weight carried 3218kgs.

I think I have my head around it but would really appreciate confirmation from someone who knows what they’re talking about!

Thank you 😊
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
Hi Rog,

Please could you advise on the following..

Mini Countryman Cooper S 5 door auto
B license
Kerb weight 1350
GVW 2040
Braked towing capacity 1500kgs
Trailer unloaded 675, Bateson Derby
MAM 1700
Single horse weighs 503kgs

If I get the trailer downplated to 1400kgs seeing as I only want to take one horse would that mean it is within the rules? For example,

GVW 2040
MAM 1400
Total combined weight allowed 3440kgs
Actual weight carried 3218kgs.

I think I have my head around it but would really appreciate confirmation from someone who knows what they’re talking about!

Thank you 😊
All your figures and what you intend to do are spot on - well done

I think Bateson only charge about a tenner to down plate but you have to remove old plate then fix new one
 
Joined
5 September 2008
Messages
2,517
Location
South East
All your figures and what you intend to do are spot on - well done

I think Bateson only charge about a tenner to down plate but you have to remove old plate then fix new one

That’s great, thank you so much for the speedy reply! Almost got caught out thinking it was kerb weight rather than GVW but glad it all works. I’ll contact Bateson next week. Gotta save up the £1200 for Mini to fit the towbar first!

Thanks again 😊
 

Pippity

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 February 2013
Messages
1,279
Location
Warrington
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1173kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 1650kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2659kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 675kg
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1173kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 1650kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2659kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres - 1700kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 675kg
From your figures you only have a max towing limit of 1009 (2659-1650=1009) which is no good for towing any horse trailer - UNLESS the V5 keepers doc states a different max towing capacity?
 
Joined
17 July 2012
Messages
41
The really long winded legal reply is ............
.......... YES .... LOL
Thanks, here is something a little different!
Would I need an operators licence to tow the 1.5t trailer with a 6.5t box if I'm moving equipment for a club to a show? I will get some fuel paid but no profit - the club is a ltd company and the show will hopefully make a profit. Does that make it 'carriage of goods in connection with trade' even though I'm not getting paid?
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
Thanks, here is something a little different!
Would I need an operators licence to tow the 1.5t trailer with a 6.5t box if I'm moving equipment for a club to a show? I will get some fuel paid but no profit - the club is a ltd company and the show will hopefully make a profit. Does that make it 'carriage of goods in connection with trade' even though I'm not getting paid?
IMO that is a commercial operation but cannot say for sure whether an O licence is needed or not
 

Alibear

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 March 2003
Messages
7,543
Location
East Anglia
Slightly different than usual but have you got any thoughts on towing in the colder weather? I say this having towed my horse to the farrier and back last night when it was -2 degrees. No snow but definitely ice in places on the yard. I figured as we were a large load and going slow we would be OK. But would appreciate an experts opinion.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
Slightly different than usual but have you got any thoughts on towing in the colder weather? I say this having towed my horse to the farrier and back last night when it was -2 degrees. No snow but definitely ice in places on the yard. I figured as we were a large load and going slow we would be OK. But would appreciate an experts opinion.
If you can do it safely then ok but if got any concerns then do not venture out
 

Abi90

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2007
Messages
1,120
ROG or anyone I have got very confused. I’m looking to upgrade to bigger trailer post trailer test at the end of the month.

Recently seen posts on a Facebook group where people are saying that your vehicles towing capacity must be equal to or greater than the MAM of the trailer or it’s not legal. Not the actual weight but the MAM. So for example, a car with a towing capacity of 2000kg towing an actual weight of 1600kg would not be legal if the MAM of the trailer was 2340kg.

I’ve looked everywhere and all the government websites seem to say that as long as the actual weight is under it’s fine and yet some people are still insisting it’s the MAM and that they got asked that question on their trailer test.

ROG please would you clear this up?
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
ROG or anyone I have got very confused. I’m looking to upgrade to bigger trailer post trailer test at the end of the month.

Recently seen posts on a Facebook group where people are saying that your vehicles towing capacity must be equal to or greater than the MAM of the trailer or it’s not legal. Not the actual weight but the MAM. So for example, a car with a towing capacity of 2000kg towing an actual weight of 1600kg would not be legal if the MAM of the trailer was 2340kg.

I’ve looked everywhere and all the government websites seem to say that as long as the actual weight is under it’s fine and yet some people are still insisting it’s the MAM and that they got asked that question on their trailer test.

ROG please would you clear this up?
There is no law or rule which stes that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to accommodate a trailer MAM

Anyone who says different then ask them to give you a link to the law or rule they are referring to ..... they will not be able to!

Also if you get the numpty who comes up with - "but that means it has the possibility of being exceeded" - then answer with this .......
My car does 30 in a 30 limit but has the possibility of doing 70 so does that mean I can get done for speeding?
 

Abi90

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2007
Messages
1,120
There is no law or rule which stes that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to accommodate a trailer MAM

Anyone who says different then ask them to give you a link to the law or rule they are referring to ..... they will not be able to!

Also if you get the numpty who comes up with - "but that means it has the possibility of being exceeded" - then answer with this .......
My car does 30 in a 30 limit but has the possibility of doing 70 so does that mean I can get done for speeding?
Thank you for clarifying. I did ask someone to “show me where it says that” and got told “well they asked me it on my trailer test”. Hmmm. It would be a stupid law anyway!

I’ve also seen “remember you need to leave at least a 200kg buffer between your towing capacity and what you are towing”. I assume this is also rubbish as the manufacturer will have already done this for you when they have the vehicle it’s towinf capacity so it’s 100% safe?
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
Thank you for clarifying. I did ask someone to “show me where it says that” and got told “well they asked me it on my trailer test”. Hmmm. It would be a stupid law anyway!

I’ve also seen “remember you need to leave at least a 200kg buffer between your towing capacity and what you are towing”. I assume this is also rubbish as the manufacturer will have already done this for you when they have the vehicle it’s towinf capacity so it’s 100% safe?
Correct = more rubbish especially as a little of the trailer weight gets transferred to the vehicle when towing
 
Joined
5 September 2008
Messages
2,517
Location
South East
Hi ROG,

Please could you point me in the right direction for the gov website where it states that grandfather rights are okay for B+E towing? I'm being told I'm wrong but I know I've seen it on here and on a gov website that grandfather rights are okay. Thank you 😊
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER

Pippity

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 February 2013
Messages
1,279
Location
Warrington
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
B

2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
1280kg

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
1780kg

4 - Towing capacity of the towing vehicle
1400kg

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
1700kg

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer
675kg

The car is a Golf 1.5 automatic, and would be towing one horse, weighing around 580kg. I'm pretty sceptical this would be possible - the Golf seems far too small - but if it's capable of short/emergency journeys, it would be a huge help.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
B

2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
1280kg

3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
1780kg

4 - Towing capacity of the towing vehicle
1400kg

5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
1700kg

6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer
675kg

The car is a Golf 1.5 automatic, and would be towing one horse, weighing around 580kg. I'm pretty sceptical this would be possible - the Golf seems far too small - but if it's capable of short/emergency journeys, it would be a huge help.
GVW 1780 + MAM 1700 = 3480 so under the 3500 limit = OK for B licence towing

675+580=1255 so within the towing limit of 1400 = OK

With just the driver in the car + tack etc it is going to be about 1400 so the vehicle will be heavier than the trailer with its load = OK
 

Pippity

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 February 2013
Messages
1,279
Location
Warrington
GVW 1780 + MAM 1700 = 3480 so under the 3500 limit = OK for B licence towing

675+580=1255 so within the towing limit of 1400 = OK

With just the driver in the car + tack etc it is going to be about 1400 so the vehicle will be heavier than the trailer with its load = OK
Fantastic, thank you!!
 
Joined
2 April 2017
Messages
4
Seems a low towing capacity at 1700 ????
If it is 1700 then the max you can load in the trailer is 795kg
I was under the impression it would tow 2000kg when I bought the car. Turns out the manual version will tow 2000kg, the auto only tows 1700kg. My fault for not checking!

I'm only planning on traveling one small horse, who weighs 450kg at the most. So 795kg should give me enough to play with? Or would I be better with a lightweight trailer?

Thanks
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
7,162
Location
LEICESTER
I was under the impression it would tow 2000kg when I bought the car. Turns out the manual version will tow 2000kg, the auto only tows 1700kg. My fault for not checking!

I'm only planning on traveling one small horse, who weighs 450kg at the most. So 795kg should give me enough to play with? Or would I be better with a lightweight trailer?

Thanks
Going to be about 350kg under the max tow limit so it should be fine
 
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