Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Smarties]

ROG

Quick question for you it's not something I worry about as I have a class 1 HGV along with every other licence going but my OH dont she only has her B licence

So my question is this k reg(92) landrover defender 90 and ifor 505 with a 600kg horse could she tow this and be legal ?

Thanks fella

 

[ROG]

ROG

Quick question for you it's not something I worry about as I have a class 1 HGV along with every other licence going but my OH dont she only has her B licence

So my question is this k reg(92) landrover defender 90 and ifor 505 with a 600kg horse could she tow this and be legal ?

Thanks fella

From the limited info I could find ...
The defender has a high GVW kerb and towing capacity which makes it totally unsuitable weight wise for towing any horse trailer with a B licence

The 505 also has too high a MAM

She could drive it with you supervising providing the info below is complied with ....

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[Smarties]

From the limited info I could find ...
The defender has a high GVW kerb and towing capacity which makes it totally unsuitable weight wise for towing any horse trailer with a B licence

The 505 also has too high a MAM

She could drive it with you supervising providing the info below is complied with ....

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Thanks fella

 

[WestCoast]

Gross vehicle weight 2190 kg
Max loading weight 605 kg
Max roof load 100 kg
Max towing weight (braked) 2000 kg
Max towing weight (unbraked) 750 kg
Minimum kerb weight 1585 kg
Turning circle (kerb to kerb)

Looking at an 09 diesel 4x4 Rav 4 2.2 - assuming it will tow a double horse box with 2 ok. Although more likelt to be single with 1.

Oh b+e per 97 licence.

Paula

 

[ROG]

Gross vehicle weight 2190 kg
Max towing weight (braked) 2000 kg
Minimum kerb weight 1585 kg

Looking at an 09 diesel 4x4 Rav 4 2.2 - assuming it will tow a double horse box with 2 ok. Although more likelt to be single with 1.

Oh b+e per 97 licence.

Paula

On a B+E licence your total actual towing weight limit is 2000 kgs
Most 2 horse trailers have a plated MAM over 2000 so that should not be an issue as the limit is still 2000

The unladen/empty weight of a 2 horse trailer is usually around 900 to 1000 kgs which would leave between 1000 to 1100 for the horses/load
That would be right at the limit with 2 horses in most cases

Check out the unladen weight of any 2 horse trailer you are considering before getting it - the lower the unladen weight the higher the available load weight


In case anyone is wondering.....
On a B licence the maximum plated trailer MAM would be 1310 kgs which is sufficient for a lightweight trailer with one horse over 500 kgs

 

[WestCoast]

Thanks for that ROG. still more thinking to do.

Paula

 

[Oona]

Hi All,

I thought I share my way of doing this...

I did one 3 hour lesson with driving school, then just did lots of driving with whoever I could get to sit in my car (with B+E license) and with in 3 weeks I did my test with my car and my friends trailer and passed!!!

Total cost £75 for the lesson, £110 for the test = £185!!! So definitely worth doing rather than taking a risk of getting cought for not being legal!

Good luck to everyone!!!

 

[lynne_macleod]

Hi, Untill today i thought i was ok, im looking into getting a new trailer which will be pulled (i hope legally!?) by my Nissan XTrail Sport 6 gear manual 2004 model 2.2 diesel
1 I have my B+E trailer test
2 Not sure and cannot find anywhere in the manual! will call Nissan CS tomorrow
3 not sure what this is?
4 2200kg
5 2500kg
6 910kg

Does this mean i can tow with my car up to 2200kg ie only with one horse? or i cannot tow this trailer even if its empty at 910kg as it is plated at 2500kg? Very confused!

Any help appreciated
Many Thanks

 

[ROG]

1 I have my B+E trailer test
4 2200kg
5 2500kg
6 910kg

Does this mean i can tow with my car up to 2200kg ie only with one horse? or i cannot tow this trailer even if its empty at 910kg as it is plated at 2500kg?

The good thing is that you have given me all the relevant info for towing on a B+E licence

The lower figure of numbers 4 and 5 is used so that is 2200
The trailer MAM of 2500 can legally be more than the manufacturers towing capacity of 2200

Your trailer weighs 910 empty so 2200 minus 910 = 1290
1290 is the max horse(s)/load weight for the trailer
Two horses plus trailer unladen weight is only likely to be about 2000 max so leaves 200 to play with for tack etc etc

That help?

 

[lynne_macleod]

Very helpful thanks so much.
I'm sure i would never (with one horses and tack and a trailer of 910kg) be any where near the car capacity of 2200kg.
So as long as the The trailer MAM of 2500 can legally be more than the manufacturers towing capacity of 2200 as long as i stay under the 2200kg I'm a happy camper.
I don't know why they make it so complicated!
Thankyou

 

[Bustalot]

Hi Rog
What do you know about Tow bars?
Is there any specific type i need to tow a horse trailer? All the electrical hook up things are confusing. Ones with different numbers of pins etc...
Swan neck types / flange types / detachable types
all seems bit of a mind field!

If any help car is a Ford Kuga and we are trying to find a tow bar to fit without having to make a cut out in the back bumper!

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog
What do you know about Tow bars?
Is there any specific type i need to tow a horse trailer? All the electrical hook up things are confusing. Ones with different numbers of pins etc...
Swan neck types / flange types / detachable types
all seems bit of a mind field!

If any help car is a Ford Kuga and we are trying to find a tow bar to fit without having to make a cut out in the back bumper!

I know nowt about them so - TRY HERE

 

[Bramble74]

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/toyota.htm#rav407

Toyota RAV4 XT-R 2.2 D-4D 5dr Dimensions
Weights & Capacities
Kerb Weight KG: 1,650
Gross Weight KG: 2,190
Towing Weight KG: 2,000

NOTE:- If the trailer was downplated to 1300 kgs leaving a load capacity of 645 for the horse then that would be legal for B licence towing

Hi Rog,

Slight variation to the above query, a 1998 Toyota Rav 4 towing weight of 1500kgs would that be ok for my lad at 435kgs plus tack in a standard Ifor e.g. HB505? Or would I be better off with a lighter trailer?

Thank you.

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

Slight variation to the above query, a 1998 Toyota Rav 4 towing weight of 1500kgs would that be ok for my lad at 435kgs plus tack in a standard Ifor e.g. HB505? Or would I be better off with a lighter trailer?

Thank you.

HB505
Max gross weight. 2340 kg
Unlaiden weight. 905.00 kg

Assuming this is for B licence towing .... and the weights are the same as in the previous post apart from the 2000 being 1500 ????????????
The trailer would need to be downplated to 1300 kgs
1300 minus 905 = 395 max load/horse

If for B+E licence towing then no need to downplate
1500 minus 905 = 595 max for load/horse

 

[Bramble74]

HB505
Max gross weight. 2340 kg
Unlaiden weight. 905.00 kg

Assuming this is for B licence towing .... and the weights are the same as in the previous post apart from the 2000 being 1500 ????????????
The trailer would need to be downplated to 1300 kgs
1300 minus 905 = 395 max load/horse

If for B+E licence towing then no need to downplate
1500 minus 905 = 595 max for load/horse

Hi, sorry no this is for B+E licence towing. So I'm ok with a 505 then, I get confused with the MAM and the Max Gross Weight and what I can tow with a vehicle that has a max gross weight of 1500kg.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi, sorry no this is for B+E licence towing. So I'm ok with a 505 then, I get confused with the MAM and the Max Gross Weight and what I can tow with a vehicle that has a max gross weight of 1500kg.

Thanks

On a B+E licence the vehicle GVW and kerbweight have no bearing whatsoever on what it can tow
The towing capacity of the vehicle is the one to go by which in this case is 1500

The trailer MAM will only have a bearing if it is under 1500 because the trailer MAM means the maximum weight it can be when fully loaded which in this case is 2340 so well over 1500

The unladen or empty weight of the trailer is significant because that, along with the load in the trailer, will determine whether it is over the towing capacity of 1500

does that help?

 

[Bramble74]

On a B+E licence the vehicle GVW and kerbweight have no bearing whatsoever on what it can tow
The towing capacity of the vehicle is the one to go by which in this case is 1500

The trailer MAM will only have a bearing if it is under 1500 because the trailer MAM means the maximum weight it can be when fully loaded which in this case is 2340 so well over 1500

The unladen or empty weight of the trailer is significant because that, along with the load in the trailer, will determine whether it is over the towing capacity of 1500

does that help?

That really does help, thanks so much I can stop worrying so much about it now!

 

[Sparkly Snowdrop]

1 - B+E (I believe, test passed pre '97)
2 - 1885
3 - 2940
4 - 5190
5 - 2000
6 - 750

I hope I've got all the right details. Vehicle is a Toyota Hilux and trailer is a Cheval Liberte 2003.

 

[ROG]

1 - B+E (I believe, test passed pre '97)
2 - 1885
3 - 2940
4 - 5190
5 - 2000
6 - 750

I hope I've got all the right details. Vehicle is a Toyota Hilux and trailer is a Cheval Liberte 2003.

pre 1997 = B+E so thats ok

5190 - 2940 = 2250 which is probably the manufacturers towing capacity

The max load/horse(s) for the trailer is 1250 kgs

 

[Sparkly Snowdrop]

pre 1997 = B+E so thats ok

5190 - 2940 = 2250 which is probably the manufacturers towing capacity

The max load/horse(s) for the trailer is 1250 kgs

Thank you ROG, you are a star.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Can someone on a B license, tow a trailer with a horse in, WITHOUT doing it under the learner umbrella?

 

[ROG]

Can someone on a B license, tow a trailer with a horse in, WITHOUT doing it under the learner umbrella?

YES

It does require the right vehicle and trailer to stay within the confines of the law

The laws are -
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not be more than 3500 kgs
The trailer plated MAM must not be more than the vehicle kerbweight

There are loads of legal B licence towing examples throughout this 800 post thread

 

[Ranyhyn]

Ok, so I assume you'd struggle to make that 3500kgs limit, with the below (not knowing the GVW or MAM of my car and trailer)

L200 warrior
Ifor Williams HB505
575kg horse

 

[ROG]

Ok, so I assume you'd struggle to make that 3500kgs limit, with the below (not knowing the GVW or MAM of my car and trailer)

L200 warrior
Ifor Williams HB505
575kg horse

Not a hope with that combination

From my failing memory ..... the L200 has a high GVW of 2500 kgs ?? - the HB505 has a MAM of 2000+ kgs

Downplating the trailer will be of no use in this case

 

[Ranyhyn]

In this instance, I'm guessing you'd need a lighter less beefy tow vehicle but then, it wouldn't be ideal for towing a heavy trailer and big horse I suppose!

Thanks Rog!

 

[ROG]

In this instance, I'm guessing you'd need a lighter less beefy tow vehicle but then, it wouldn't be ideal for towing a heavy trailer and big horse I suppose!

Thanks Rog!

EH !!!

Plenty tow a 600 kg horse safely in a lightweight trailer with a 4X4 that conforms to B licence towing rules

 

[Ranyhyn]

Ok, well that puts a different spin on things!

Ok so say I towed with my Freelander... what trailer would I need to tow alone?

 

[ROG]

Ok, well that puts a different spin on things!

Ok so say I towed with my Freelander... what trailer would I need to tow alone?

What is the GVW, kerbweight and towing capacity of the Freelander?

 

[Ranyhyn]

I don't know. It's out on the drive and it's dark.
Can I come back in the morning equipped with the details?

 

[ROG]

I don't know. It's out on the drive and it's dark.
Can I come back in the morning equipped with the details?

Sure - anytime