Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

sallybush

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2009
Messages
66
Practically I would say, just do the towing test.

There are many safety aspects to hitching up and towing safely, for this alone it is worth doing the test. Then add in the professional tuition for reversing, and brushing up on your general driving skills before taking a valuable horse in tow, and its a no-brainer. I'm sure everyone on here has watched someone (or suffered themselves) failing to perform even a basic reversing manoeuvre. I know people who will only go to familiar places as they are unable to reverse their trailer confidently :( Lacking in confidence or worrying about what will happen if you need to reverse just makes for a stressful journey.

The majority of caravan owners choose a combination where the caravan doesn't weigh more than 85% of the unladen weight of the car. Its a recommended limit, not a law, but its widely accepted. A usable combination of car and horsebox on a B license will be very close to 100%.

Finally, if you have to change your 4x4 for something that is smaller and lighter, you will be able to tow under a B license, but the new vehicle will generally be towing much closer to its designed limit, and therefore more difficult. Once you've changed your car, restricted yourself to a small choice of lightweight trailers, downrated the trailer, possibly fit a towbar to your new car, and not be able to take a friend and their horse at some point in future to share fuel costs, you'll probably find it would have been cheaper to take the towing test in the first place!
 

sallybush

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2009
Messages
66
Rog, same van but mine is shorter and has the older face. Funnily enough they have got the specs mixed up, only the 3.0L van can tow 3500kg, the 2.3L on that link can tow 2800 or 3000kg depending on whether its a single or dual rear wheel van.

Solo, look back a few pages for my photo of the vin plate. The only figure you won't find is the unladen weight, the only real way to find this is to put your car on a weighbridge. Some of the Vosa ones are self service and free.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
Hi Rog, my subaru is a gtb 4x4 legacy estate but is a japanese import so have no idea on unladen weights etc how would I go about finding everything out?
Found this list - all 2007 models with estates on the right of that list
http://www.getcarspecs.com/subaru/page-7
Need more info such as year of manufacture
If you have a handbook for your model and its written in English then the info will be in that
 

nicknick

Active Member
Joined
22 October 2007
Messages
31
Just found this towing clinic, went away to find out all the relevant info but am bamfoozled now,

1 B + E
2 1825
3 2505
4 3880
5 Ifor HB505R (2340?? on the plate of the trailer don't know if this is the right numbers required)
6 No idea at all

hopefully this is enough info, it's a pugeot 807 exec 2.2HDI
 

flying solo

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 June 2010
Messages
1,737
Location
In the starvation paddock!
So if I can legally only two 1500kg with my car will I have to do a trailer test? I have a sinclair which is 700kg unladen and 2000kg max. I would have to have the trailer replated wouldn't i? Now all I need to do is weigh the ponies!
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
Just found this towing clinic, went away to find out all the relevant info but am bamfoozled now,

1 B + E
2 1825
3 2505
4 3880
5 Ifor HB505R (2340?? on the plate of the trailer don't know if this is the right numbers required)
6 No idea at all

hopefully this is enough info, it's a pugeot 807 exec 2.2HDI
I found specs for the HB505 but not the HB505R so I'll use them
1 B + E
2 = 1825 kerb/unladen
3 = 2505 GVW
4 = 1850 towing capacity approx from what I could find
5 = 2340 MAM
6 = 905 Unladen

ASSUMING I have the weights correct ......
Legal for B+E
Trailer must not be loaded with more than 900 because of the 1850 towing limit (900+950=1850)
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
So if I can legally only two 1500kg with my car will I have to do a trailer test? I have a sinclair which is 700kg unladen and 2000kg max. I would have to have the trailer replated wouldn't i? Now all I need to do is weigh the ponies!
Which of these can you definitely give an answer to -
I must admit I have searched the internet and cannot find specs for your 1999 GTB 4X4 legacy subaru estate/station wagon :mad:

1 - What licence you hold - B or BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer
 

nicknick

Active Member
Joined
22 October 2007
Messages
31
Number 4 is what came out of our car handbook in my original messgae, but couldn't find it on the 'net to confirm what the book was saying, but what you have is maybe correct, will maybe check at the local peug dealers to confirm, as if the info you have found I will have been towing illegally!! with my 2 in it, having been told by instructor when doing test that this model would tow a 511 with my 2 in fine! aaargh it's such a mine field this towing

is no 4 the GTW (gross train weight) or something else, my OH is now confusing matters somewhat?
the 1850 in the hand book is the braked trailer weight is that what you were meaning?

thank you very much for doing that for me. x
 
Last edited:

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
the 1850 in the hand book is the braked trailer weight is that what you were meaning?
That's the one :D

I found specs for the HB505 but not the HB505R so I'll use them
1 B
2 = 1825 kerb/unladen
3 = 2505 GVW
4 = 1850 towing capacity
5 = 2340 MAM
6 = 905 Unladen

ASSUMING I have the weights correct ......
ILLEGAL on a B licence
Reasons -
2505+2340=4845 which is well over the 3500 maximum
2340 is more than 1825
 
Last edited:

nicknick

Active Member
Joined
22 October 2007
Messages
31
Ok now my other car, sorry not too much info on it as it's in the garage being fixed not much on the V5 sheet
B + E licence
Rangerover 2.5 DSE 1997
same as previous trailer HB505R

Or will I wait till I have it back and check the plate on the car?
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
Ok now my other car, sorry not too much info on it as it's in the garage being fixed not much on the V5 sheet
B + E licence
Rangerover 2.5 DSE 1997
same as previous trailer HB505R

Or will I wait till I have it back and check the plate on the car?
http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/what-is-the-towing-capacity-of-1997-range-rover-25-dse/15373975

1 B+E
2 = ??? kerb/unladen
3 = ??? GVW
4 = 3500 towing capacity
5 = 2340 MAM
6 = 905 Unladen
Legal for B+E
You could load the trailer to full 2340 capacity and it would still be legal
 

Overgrown Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 November 2007
Messages
604
Location
Scotland
Hi there

Thanks so much for this. This is fantastic :)

1. License = B
2. Unladen car = kerb weight = 1570kg or 1503kg (getting conflicting advise online and car isn't arriving for another week so can't check it)
3. GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight = 2145kg
4. Tow capacity = 1600kg
5. Trailer MAM = 1400kg
6. Trailer unladen weight = 655kg

This is for a Cheval Liberte 1003XL (single trailer) being towed by a brand new Vauxhall Insignia 2ltr Turbo Diesel 160bhp. Will be looking to travel a 16-16.2hh TB type so around 500-650kg.

Thank you :)
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
1. License = B
2. Unladen car = kerb weight = 1570kg or 1503kg (getting conflicting advise online and car isn't arriving for another week so can't check it)
3. GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight = 2145kg
4. Tow capacity = 1600kg
5. Trailer MAM = 1400kg
6. Trailer unladen weight = 655kg
ILLEGAL on a B licence - JUST
3+5=3545 which is 45 kgs over the 3500 max
You could downplate the trailer to 1355 which means you could load 700 kgs into it and be 'pefectly' legal
 

perfect11s

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 September 2008
Messages
3,877
Location
cheshire....
ILLEGAL on a B licence - JUST
3+5=3545 which is 45 kgs over the 3500 max
You could downplate the trailer to 1355 which means you could load 700 kgs into it and be 'pefectly' legal
Just a quickie Say you have a B licence could the police prosicute you just for having a trailer with the wrong design weights on the plate or would they have to weigh your car and trailer to prove you were outside of the conditions of your B licence ???? is there any cases of prosicutions , just been chatting with a guy whos son wants to tow a trailer... Thanks ...
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
Just a quickie Say you have a B licence could the police prosicute you just for having a trailer with the wrong design weights on the plate or would they have to weigh your car and trailer to prove you were outside of the conditions of your B licence ???? is there any cases of prosicutions ,
I do not know of any prosecutions but it is easy to add up the GVW and the MAM and se if they make more than 3500
not so easy to determine if the trailer MAM is more than the unladen weight of the vehicle

I would make the rules for towing with a B licence simpler -
vehicle GVW + trailer MAM to add up to no more than 3500
Trailer MAM must not be more than vehicle GVW
How easy would that be?
 

Overgrown Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 November 2007
Messages
604
Location
Scotland
ILLEGAL on a B licence - JUST
3+5=3545 which is 45 kgs over the 3500 max
You could downplate the trailer to 1355 which means you could load 700 kgs into it and be 'pefectly' legal
Thanks very much for that ROG :) Much appreciated.

So everything about the set-up is perfectly safe and legal apart from the GVW + trailer MAM being slightly over (which I can resolve with downplating)

You've put my mind at ease. You see so much conflicting advise online about towing.
 

perfect11s

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 September 2008
Messages
3,877
Location
cheshire....
I do not know of any prosecutions but it is easy to add up the GVW and the MAM and se if they make more than 3500
not so easy to determine if the trailer MAM is more than the unladen weight of the vehicle

I would make the rules for towing with a B licence simpler -
vehicle GVW + trailer MAM to add up to no more than 3500
Trailer MAM must not be more than vehicle GVW
How easy would that be?
Yes but my point is could they make a prosicution stick unless they had some evidence?? IE would the court except just that they were towing something with a design weight greater than the licence allows or would they need to have a weigh bridge ticket that says they were physicly overweight ??? say fella tows dads car trailer empty weighing 700kg that could carry 2000kg with a 1500 kg tow car total weight 2200kg
police stop him see he only has a B licence what would they do ??? atempt a prosicution based on the design weights of the trailer ,weigh him , or send him away???
what im getting at is light trailers under 3500 arnt legaly plated like a hgv trailer they just have a design weight stamped on by the maker
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
Yes but my point is could they make a prosicution stick unless they had some evidence?? IE would the court except just that they were towing something with a design weight greater than the licence allows or would they need to have a weigh bridge ticket that says they were physicly overweight ??? say fella tows dads car trailer empty weighing 700kg that could carry 2000kg with a 1500 kg tow car total weight 2200kg
police stop him see he only has a B licence what would they do ??? atempt a prosicution based on the design weights of the trailer ,weigh him , or send him away???
what im getting at is light trailers under 3500 arnt legaly plated like a hgv trailer they just have a design weight stamped on by the maker
I see you point BUT the only weights available are those put on by the manufacturers so that is what is taken as being ok for the law
I suspect that a legal challenge has already been made on this issue as it has been around for many years.

B licence holder towing a 3500 MAM trailer which is unladen and weighing 1000 with a towing vehicle which is 1500 KERB and 2000 GVW who gets stopped by the law is likely, IMO, to get a warning but could legally be prosecuted

KERB is not the same as UNLADEN so that can be an issue because how do the authorities get an UNLADEN weight? - KERB weight is listed in most handbooks and on the V5 or online
 

mellissa

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 January 2007
Messages
526
Hi there,

I have a 1998 licence and took the lorry 7.5 tonne test. Am I able to tow or do I still need to do the trailer test?

Thanks
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,795
Location
LEICESTER
I have a 1998 licence and took the lorry 7.5 tonne test. Am I able to tow or do I still need to do the trailer test?
YES

Passing C1 does not give you a '+E' which is the entitlement at the end of a category which gives you towing entitlement

That sentence is not strictly correct because there are allowances to tow with a B licence and all categories can tow a trailer of 750 kgs MAM

If you pass the C1+E test then that will also give you B+E but only for as long as the medical remains current
If the medical, which you already have until age 45, is not kept current then you lose C1+E and B+E

Passing the B+E test gives you B+E for as long as your B licence remains valid so generally for life

If you have C as well as C1 then you could go for the C+E test

NOTE: - for those now considering taking the C1 training & test - forget it - take the C training & test instead as they both cost roughly the same and the age is now 18 for all LGV categories
Drivers with B licences can go direct for C and then C+E

18 year old artic drivers ..... Hmmmm .......
 
Top