Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

diddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 March 2011
Messages
277
Hi Rog,

What a fab idea and what a star - I can’t believe you’re being so nice as to work all these things out for everyone :D

I’m hoping to buy a trailer for my pony and the only way I can swing it with long-suffering OH is if we don’t have to buy a new car so am hoping current one is up to the job! Here goes…

1 Licence is B+E (I'm really old!)
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle 1800kg (Seat Alhambra 2.0 diesel)
3 GVW of towing vehicle 2430KG
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle 2000KG (braked)
5 Plated MAM of trailer 1700KG (Bateson Derby)
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 675KG

Like lots of other people who've posted, I have no idea what all the numbers mean - hope I’ve got them right! I only want to tow one horse - he's a 14.2 cob so I'm guessing from looking at other people's threads he wouldn't weigh more than 550KG. So if I'm close to the limit I could downplate the trailer, yes..? Ooooh, look at me sounding like I know what I'm talking about :)

Thank you very very much for your help.

Diddy x
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
1 Licence is B+E
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle 1800kg (Seat Alhambra 2.0 diesel)
3 GVW of towing vehicle 2430KG
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle 2000KG (braked)
5 Plated MAM of trailer 1700KG (Bateson Derby)
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 675KG

I only want to tow one horse - he's a 14.2 cob so I'm guessing from looking at other people's threads he wouldn't weigh more than 550KG. So if I'm close to the limit I could downplate the trailer, yes..?
The ONLY reasons to downplate a trailer is either to conform to the 'B' licence towing rules or if the trailer is over 3500 MAM

LEGAL for B+E

You can load 1025 on the trailer and be ok
You could get a trailer plated at 3500 MAM which weighs 1000 unladen and load 1000 on to it and still be legal
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
I have a 1997 shogun (SWB) 2.5TD and tow an ifor 510 with a cat b+e license. Is this Ok?! Very confused!
I cannot find the specs online for your Shogun so perhaps you could look in the handbook for me please
Also - they may be on the V5 document

1 Licence = B+E
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle = ????kg
3 GVW of towing vehicle = ????KG
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle = ????KG
5 Plated MAM of trailer 2584KG
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 1000KG
 

diddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 March 2011
Messages
277
Hi Rog,

Thank you so much for your advice. Great news - you can imagine how chuffed I am that I can get mobile without having to talk husband into new vehicle :D Not sure OH will be that thrilled as I plan to clear off for entire weekends at a time :)

Thanks again.

Diddy x
 

sallybush

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 January 2009
Messages
66
NOTE: - for those now considering taking the C1 training & test - forget it - take the C training & test instead as they both cost roughly the same and the age is now 18 for all LGV categoriesp

And anyone doing the C+E, try and find somewhere with a proper articulated truck as its great fun, many will use a wagon and drag which is basically a rigid lorry with a similar sized trailer on the back. Only reason to go for a C1 is if you are rubbish at gears, a C license requires a split gearbox with low and high range (which means a minimum of 8 gears, up to 18 ish) which can get a bit confusing as you need to be able to skip gears, whereas the C1 category will just be a bigger version of a car gearbox.

I learnt in this and it was most rewarding driving I've ever done. Sometimes I'm disappointed I like my job, otherwise I'd quit and go and drive one for a living :)
 

flying solo

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 June 2010
Messages
1,737
Location
In the starvation paddock!
Hi ROG,

I have been trawling the internet for weeks trying to get information on my Japanese import legacy GTB and found this:

Model year
May 1999 - Apr 2000

Drive type
4WD

Transmission type
4AT

Engine volume, cc
1994

Frame name
GF-BH5

Mass, kg
1510

Total weight
1785

Sorry if this is still no use but I still cant find anything which relate to a UK vin plate as Japanese vin plates dont hold the same information.

Thanks again
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
Japanese import legacy GTB and found this:
Total weight = 1785
So if I can legally only two 1500kg with my car will I have to do a trailer test? I have a sinclair which is 700kg unladen and 2000kg max. I would have to have the trailer replated wouldn't i? Now all I need to do is weigh the ponies!
Not knowing the towing capacity is a big issue as I cannot say what it can legally tow (actual weight)

For towing on a B licence from the info obtained then if the GVW is 1785 the trailer cannot be plated at more than 1715 (1785+1715=3500)
That would leave you with just over 1000 to load inside the trailer

Again, not knowing the max towing capacity, is a bit of a worry
 

flying solo

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 June 2010
Messages
1,737
Location
In the starvation paddock!
There is a woman down the road from me who has a 2000 uk model which looks exactly the same, I think I may approach her and ask to see her vin plate! I'm sure she rides so will hopefully understand, I dont want to do anything dangerous with the ponies. Failing that its my birthday in Feb and if I ask nicely i'm sure OH will buy me another more suitable 4x4
 

Ginn

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 November 2005
Messages
4,002
Can you please clarify if I'm legal - I'm fairly sure I am but have received a few comments that I'm not so want to check:

1 Licence = B but with full BE (pre 97) liscense holder in passenger seat supervising and L plates on car and trailer
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle = 2265 kg assuming this is the same as the kerbweight???
3 GVW of towing vehicle = 2620 Kg
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle = 2800 Kg
5 Plated MAM of trailer 2700 Kg
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 905 Kg

We've also worked out that we only ever travel a total weight of 900 kg, bringing the trailer+contents to ~1800kg (so well within towing capacity and just under 85% of kerbweight of towing vehicle).

Now I am 99.9% sure parents (aka supervising drivers) can *safely* and legally tow this set up as they both hold BE (pre 97) licenses. The query comes whether I can tow with my (post 97) B license on L plates with them as supervising passengers? I am 95% sure this is legal and that the grandfathers rights rule change only applies to vehicles with a GVW of more than 3500 kg (i.e. D and C categories) so I am OK?

Plan is to rack up lots of hours practice (and for the record I've had some lessons and am fully confident and competent manoeuvering, it just happens slowly as I'm not as practiced as I'd like to be) then take my test.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
Can you please clarify if I'm legal - I'm fairly sure I am but have received a few comments that I'm not so want to check:

1 Licence = B but with full BE (pre 97) liscense holder in passenger seat supervising and L plates on car and trailer
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle = 2265 kg assuming this is the same as the kerbweight???
3 GVW of towing vehicle = 2620 Kg
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle = 2800 Kg
5 Plated MAM of trailer 2700 Kg
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 905 Kg

We've also worked out that we only ever travel a total weight of 900 kg, bringing the trailer+contents to ~1800kg (so well within towing capacity and just under 85% of kerbweight of towing vehicle).

Now I am 99.9% sure parents (aka supervising drivers) can *safely* and legally tow this set up as they both hold BE (pre 97) licenses. The query comes whether I can tow with my (post 97) B license on L plates with them as supervising passengers? I am 95% sure this is legal and that the grandfathers rights rule change only applies to vehicles with a GVW of more than 3500 kg (i.e. D and C categories) so I am OK?
Spot on with your take on the supervising laws :)

1 Licence = B but with full BE (pre 97) liscense holder in passenger seat supervising and L plates on car and trailer
2 Empty weight of towing vehicle = 2265 kg assuming this is the same as the kerbweight???
3 GVW of towing vehicle = 2620 Kg
4 Towing capacity of towing vehicle = 2800 Kg
5 Plated MAM of trailer 2700 Kg
6 Unladen/empty weight of trailer 905 Kg

ILLEGAL for B BUT LEGAL for B+E provisional with supervising B+E licence holder

Have you checked with insurance company that this is ok as many do not allow B+E learners without changing the policy or the excess????

1795 is the maximum you can load into the trailer (1795+905=2700) as 2700 is the max MAM for the trailer

You could get a trailer plated at 3500 MAM which weighed 1000 empty and load 1800 in it with that B+E set up (1000+1800=2800)

85% of kerbweight is not an issue here as the set up has been designed for more than that - if 85% was the safety limit then the manufacturer would not have allowed a towing capacity of more than that but they have

Towing caravans which act differently than trailers tend to stick to the 85% rule for safety
 

Ginn

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 November 2005
Messages
4,002
Thanks Rog. I didn't think I was going crazy. Yes checked with insurers and was told provided I had the provisional +E entitlement and was supervised by a full BE holder then I was covered - no change to excess or premium (though that could be my age and number of yrs no claims attached to my policy too!).

I was aware about the kerbweight but do find it reassuring that I'm within it too - I have seen a few trailers on their sides (pulled by small cars I might add) so when looking for a tow car safety was priority number 1 and I felt that the as a mimimum I wanted the car to weigh more than the loaded trailer. Nice to know I can go up though if I wanted - I do lust after a nice equitrek with living but for the cost think I may do better to save my pennies and buy a lorry, lol!
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
I was aware about the kerbweight but do find it reassuring that I'm within it too - I have seen a few trailers on their sides (pulled by small cars I might add) so when looking for a tow car safety was priority number 1 and I felt that the as a mimimum I wanted the car to weigh more than the loaded trailer.
As I tried to explain in my last post if the towing vehicle is designed to tow a trailer heavier than itself do not worry
Think of the above as being along the same lines as lorries where many towing vehicles such as artic units tow trailers many times their weight and you don't see many on their sides
 

Happy Hunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 April 2010
Messages
1,713
Location
MiddleSouthShires
Afternoon ROG :) tea and Biscuits for this thread - very useful!!

I am over the B limits - I know :(
So im taking lessons soon and have been practicing with farrier (who has B+E and is insured on my Landy to help).

I was wondering if you can give me some pointers about the test contents???

What it entails?
Approx length (Are we talking 20mins or 4 hours!?)
Does the Landy have to have any special test (Current MOT and valid insurance of course)
Does the Trailer have to have any checks?
Does the Landy have to have a 'beeper/buzzer' on the reverse gear???
Do you have to provide 'extra' wingmirrrors - ala caravan drivers??

Ta :)
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
Afternoon ROG :) tea and Biscuits for this thread - very useful!!

I am over the B limits - I know :(
So im taking lessons soon and have been practicing with farrier (who has B+E and is insured on my Landy to help).

I was wondering if you can give me some pointers about the test contents???

What it entails?
Approx length (Are we talking 20mins or 4 hours!?)
Does the Landy have to have any special test (Current MOT and valid insurance of course)
Does the Trailer have to have any checks?
Does the Landy have to have a 'beeper/buzzer' on the reverse gear???
Do you have to provide 'extra' wingmirrrors - ala caravan drivers??

Ta :)
Test entails a few basic safety Qs such 'show me that your tyres are legal?' or 'where and how would you check the oil?' - lasts 3 mins
reversing exercise - lasts about 10 mins max
uncouple/recouple exercise - lasts about 7 mins max
On the road driving - last about 60 mins

No reverse bleeper required
The examiner must have wing mirrors to see by

In regards as to whether the set up you have is DSA test ok, I would take it to either the test station or a friendly B+E trainer to find out before booking a B+E test
It is because of the DSA rules as to what set ups can be used that most doing B+E go for a B+E trainer who has the right kit
 

Paint Me Proud

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2010
Messages
4,170
Will be getting a FreeLander 2 HSE - want to tow with it.

I hold a post 1997 car license.

Will be carrying single horse approx 500kg

Can anyone suggest a trailer may be suitable for my needs

Thanks
 

tallyho!

Bring me Sunshine...!
Joined
8 July 2010
Messages
14,816
Paint me Proud...

GVW is 2505 for that model so the trailer + horse would have to weigh less than 995 and I just checked the IWT website and even the single horsebox is 1600 MAM so you will be illegal with that set up I'm afraid as it is 4105kgs....

If you found a vehicle which was GVW 1900kg then you could get away with it.

It would be worth taking the B+E test...
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,814
Location
LEICESTER
is this not the sort of situ where paint me proud might be looking to downrate a trailer?
That is an option BUT the horse weighs 500, that would mean the unladen trailer must weigh no more than 495 and I am not sure there is such a trailer for a horse ???
 

charliejet

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 May 2007
Messages
181
Thank you for your time and for the quick reply :)

Just thought I would double check with someone else, although I researched this at length before buying.
For anyone is interested I have a Ford Mondeo and an Ifor Williams 403 which had the plate downrated by Ifor Williams. My little mare weighs 490kg so we are well within the weights.

Not all Mondeos are the same weights, it took me a while to find a suitable one but it tows the single trailer very well. My horse travels brilliantly in her 403 as well.
 
Top