Victoria25
Well-Known Member
Hmm interesting as both would be under 600 each (especially if I had one biggie and the youngster) thanks ROG x
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clippi
Well-Known Member
You have the important bits in this case
The maximum your trailer can be when fully loaded is 2340 kgs
For B+E towing the LOWEST of these figures is the one to go by ....
Vehicle towing capacity - 3000 in this case
Trailer plated MAM - 2340 in this case
So giving me 2349-905= 1435kg to be able to put in the trailer? The most that ever goes in 650kg
But presume it's fully laden does that then give me 3000-2340=660 for passengers, fuel,etc?
ROG
Well-Known Member
I do hope you are not going to put passengers and fuel in the trailer with the horse !!!!!!
There are seperate max weights for the vehicle (GVW) and the trailer (MAM)
There is also the GTW listed on the vehicle which refers to the max actual weight of both vehicle and trailer when placed together on a weighbridge
The GTW does not refer to the GVW + MAM weights listed
Spiritedly
Well-Known Member
Hi Rog, I, hopefully, will be getting a Nissan Terrano 2.7 in a couple of weeks and wondered what size of trailer I would be able to tow with it? I passed my test in 1989 so I'm not sure which entitlement that gives me? Thank you
ROG
Well-Known Member
It has a towing capacity of 2800 kgsHi Rog, I, hopefully, will be getting a Nissan Terrano 2.7 in a couple of weeks and wondered what size of trailer I would be able to tow with it? I passed my test in 1989 so I'm not sure which entitlement that gives me? Thank you
That means you can add the unladen weight of the trailer to the load inside it and not exceed 2800 as that is what the manufacturer has stated the vehicle will be able to safely cope with
If the plated MAM of the trailer is less than 2800 then that plated MAM figure is the maximum weight limit of both trailer and its load
You have a pre 1997 licence so have B+E which is what you need for this set up
irishcob
Well-Known Member
Just found this thread - fab!
Car is Vauxhall Vectra Elite 2.0L
Trailer is Rice Richardson old style (600kg)
Horse is approx 690kg
This is not my set up (won't tow in anything smaller than my Landrover Discovery!), but of another user. Maybe they are indeed correct that it is legal, but the car just doesn't seem heavy enough for such a large horse? I don't want to publicly embarrass them, but to warn them if you feel it isn't legal/safe.
Many thanks!
Car is Vauxhall Vectra Elite 2.0L
Trailer is Rice Richardson old style (600kg)
Horse is approx 690kg
This is not my set up (won't tow in anything smaller than my Landrover Discovery!), but of another user. Maybe they are indeed correct that it is legal, but the car just doesn't seem heavy enough for such a large horse? I don't want to publicly embarrass them, but to warn them if you feel it isn't legal/safe.
Many thanks!
ROG
Well-Known Member
Cannot give a definitive answer due to lack of info but will take a GUESS that the Vectra has a towing capacity of 1500 kgs so should manage 1300 approx
The driver would require a B+E licence
rockysmum
Well-Known Member
Have they weighed the trailer
To get it down to 600 I assume they have removed the partition and changed the floor to aluminium. I've had a lot of Rice trailers and non of them, even the one with rear unload got anywhere near that weight. I would have guessed that the chassis and body would weight that without the floor and other "extras"
ROG
Well-Known Member
I decided to make post numbers 999 and 1000 a reminder of what can be done on a B licence and what the general rules are
LIGHTWEIGHT TRAILER EXAMPLES:-
http://www.batesontrailers.com/product/horse-trailers/derby-lightweight-horse-pony/
http://www.chevaltrailers.co.uk/single-mare-foal.html
http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB403.asp
Contact trailer manufacturer to have trailer downplated if needed (free or very little cost)
Toyota Rav 4 (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1425
GVW = 1785
Max towing weight = 1500
Max trailer plated MAM = 1425 kgs
Nissan X trail (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs
Kia Sportage (AWD) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1678
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1600
Max trailer plated MAM = 1360 kgs
FREELANDER 1 (2001 - 2005)
Unladen/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2040
Towing = 1800
Max trailer plated MAM = 1460 kgs
SUBARU FORRESTER (4X4)
Unladen/kerb = 1465 minimum
GVW = 2050 maximum
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs
Skoda Yeti (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1530
GVW = 2070
Towing capacity = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1430 kgs
Suzuki vitara (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1400
GVW = 1950
Towing = 1850
Max trailer plated MAM = 1400 kgs
Deduct trailer unladen weight from max trailer plated weight to get maximum load/horse weight for the trailer
Example:- Nissan (1450) minus IFOR HB403 (770 appx) = load/horse 680 kgs
Many standard saloon/estate cars can also be used for B licence towing with a horse trailer.
The types of surfaces being driven on must be considered if not using a 4X4
LIGHTWEIGHT TRAILER EXAMPLES:-
http://www.batesontrailers.com/product/horse-trailers/derby-lightweight-horse-pony/
http://www.chevaltrailers.co.uk/single-mare-foal.html
http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB403.asp
Contact trailer manufacturer to have trailer downplated if needed (free or very little cost)
Toyota Rav 4 (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1425
GVW = 1785
Max towing weight = 1500
Max trailer plated MAM = 1425 kgs
Nissan X trail (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs
Kia Sportage (AWD) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1678
GVW = 2140
Towing = 1600
Max trailer plated MAM = 1360 kgs
FREELANDER 1 (2001 - 2005)
Unladen/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2040
Towing = 1800
Max trailer plated MAM = 1460 kgs
SUBARU FORRESTER (4X4)
Unladen/kerb = 1465 minimum
GVW = 2050 maximum
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs
Skoda Yeti (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1530
GVW = 2070
Towing capacity = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1430 kgs
Suzuki vitara (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1400
GVW = 1950
Towing = 1850
Max trailer plated MAM = 1400 kgs
Deduct trailer unladen weight from max trailer plated weight to get maximum load/horse weight for the trailer
Example:- Nissan (1450) minus IFOR HB403 (770 appx) = load/horse 680 kgs
Many standard saloon/estate cars can also be used for B licence towing with a horse trailer.
The types of surfaces being driven on must be considered if not using a 4X4
Last edited by a moderator:
ROG
Well-Known Member
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
The towing vehicle info can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form, the handbook, a plate somewhere on the vehicle or on the internet.
Kerbweight (weight when empty)
GVW or MAM (max possible legal weight when fully loaded)
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit – not legally enforceable but based on safety and engine power)
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM.
Unladen (weight when empty)
MAM or MTPLM (max legal weight fully loaded)
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the manufacturer at little or no cost.
The laws/rules are these:-
For both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded.
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used
The trailer MAM can legally be more than the towing capacity.(internet myths may say otherwise)
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kgs (law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kgs
Towing capacity 1700 kgs
Trailer
Unladen 600 kgs
MAM 2000 kgs
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1100 kgs because 1100+600=1700 kgs which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kgs.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 850 kgs because 850+600=1450 kgs which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO OF SHOW ME/TELL ME QUESTIONS (Usually 5) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO OF REVERSING EXCERISE = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.htm - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO OF UNCOUPLE/COUPLE = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kgs please (might be made easier if the info below is copied and pasted with the weights etc put after the '=' bits)
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Unladen =
MAM =
The towing vehicle info can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form, the handbook, a plate somewhere on the vehicle or on the internet.
Kerbweight (weight when empty)
GVW or MAM (max possible legal weight when fully loaded)
Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit – not legally enforceable but based on safety and engine power)
GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.
The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM.
Unladen (weight when empty)
MAM or MTPLM (max legal weight fully loaded)
The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the manufacturer at little or no cost.
The laws/rules are these:-
For both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded.
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used
The trailer MAM can legally be more than the towing capacity.(internet myths may say otherwise)
For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kgs (law)
EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kgs
Towing capacity 1700 kgs
Trailer
Unladen 600 kgs
MAM 2000 kgs
For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1100 kgs because 1100+600=1700 kgs which is the towing capacity.
For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kgs.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 850 kgs because 850+600=1450 kgs which is the trailer MAM.
Caravan weights work on the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO OF SHOW ME/TELL ME QUESTIONS (Usually 5) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO OF REVERSING EXCERISE = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.htm - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO OF UNCOUPLE/COUPLE = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test
DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos
This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kgs please (might be made easier if the info below is copied and pasted with the weights etc put after the '=' bits)
LICENCE
B or B+E =
VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =
TRAILER
Unladen =
MAM =
Last edited by a moderator:
catroo
Well-Known Member
Hi ROG
Can you tell me if I can do the following if I get trailer replated ? Not sure on one of the numbers
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 Diesel (140ps)
Kerb = 1614KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?
TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2500kg?
Pony is 250KG
My other half normally does the towing, he has B+E, but thinking about emergencies
If not would a lighter trailer work is is the vehicle the problem?
Can you tell me if I can do the following if I get trailer replated ? Not sure on one of the numbers
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 Diesel (140ps)
Kerb = 1614KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?
TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2500kg?
Pony is 250KG
My other half normally does the towing, he has B+E, but thinking about emergencies
If not would a lighter trailer work is is the vehicle the problem?
ROG
Well-Known Member
That is a VERY light pony so this is possible on a B licenceHi ROG
Can you tell me if I can do the following if I get trailer replated ? Not sure on one of the numbers
LICENCE
B or B+E = B
VEHICLE Ford Kuga 2.0 Diesel (140ps)
Kerb = 1614KG
GVW = 2130KG
Towing capacity = 2100KG
GTW = ?
TRAILER ifor 505
Unladen = 905kg
MAM = 2500kg?
Pony is 250KG
My other half normally does the towing, he has B+E, but thinking about emergencies
If not would a lighter trailer work is is the vehicle the problem?
contact Ifor williams to get the trailer down plated from 2340 to 1370 kgs MAM
1370-905=465 for the load/pony
catroo
Well-Known Member
That is a VERY light pony so this is possible on a B licence
contact Ifor williams to get the trailer down plated from 2340 to 1370 kgs MAM
1370-905=465 for the load/pony
Yeah! Thank you ROG
Pony is a little shetland so everything is small and light, no tack, no partition, small haynet etc
Next question - in one of your previous posts you referred to Max trailer plated MAM of the vehicle, can you tell me what that is for the Ford Kuga?
ROG
Well-Known Member
Max trailer plated MAM FOR the vehicle if under B licence towing rules
KUGA Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) = 2130 Kg
For B licence towing the maximum trailer plated MAM is 1370
This is because GVW added to trailer MAM must not be more than 3500
deoni
Well-Known Member
Hi I have a Jeep Grand Cheeroke 1997 2.5 (not sure of rest of info sorry!)
and also a 730kg (or around that) trailer which can carry 2000kg all together. I don't have my B+E license, can i carry a small horse who weighs about 400-450? Sorry my info is rubbish!
and also a 730kg (or around that) trailer which can carry 2000kg all together. I don't have my B+E license, can i carry a small horse who weighs about 400-450? Sorry my info is rubbish!
ROG
Well-Known Member
Hi I have a Jeep Grand Cheeroke 1997 2.5 (not sure of rest of info sorry!)
and also a 730kg (or around that) trailer which can carry 2000kg all together. I don't have my B+E license, can i carry a small horse who weighs about 400-450? Sorry my info is rubbish!
Assuming its THIS ONE then it has these weight dimensions -
GVW 2400
Kerb 1835
towing 2300
As you only have a B licence then the maximum trailer plated MAM is only 1100 kgs (2400+1100=3500)
If you contacted the manufacturer of your trailer and got it down plated to 1100 then with an unladen weight of 730 kgs the maximum for the horse/load will only be 370 kgs
The big problem here is that the vehicle GVW is too high at 2400 - you need a vehicle with a GVW of between 2000 and 2200 to get a decent MAM for the trailer
deoni
Well-Known Member
OK thank you. I already have the car and trailer so looks like I will have to do my test soon!
thank you.
ROG
Well-Known Member
You can drive it under supervision now - see post number 1000 in the threadOK thank you. I already have the car and trailer so looks like I will have to do my test soon!
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
ROG, sorry for another question:
I have a 2004 Cheval Liberte (double trailer) and it says the unladen weight of this is 740 (gross max 2000kg).
We have an L200 if we ever needed to take two horses to say a show (plus an older person to be with me) BUT before I take my test Im thinking of swapping my car and wondered if there was a vehicle I could tow this trailer with plus one horse max on my B license? Or is this impossible?
x
The horse in the trailer would be a lightweight TB (16.1)
I have a 2004 Cheval Liberte (double trailer) and it says the unladen weight of this is 740 (gross max 2000kg).
We have an L200 if we ever needed to take two horses to say a show (plus an older person to be with me) BUT before I take my test Im thinking of swapping my car and wondered if there was a vehicle I could tow this trailer with plus one horse max on my B license? Or is this impossible?
x
The horse in the trailer would be a lightweight TB (16.1)
ROG
Well-Known Member
For B licence towing ......
The trailer would have to be down plated by Cheval which would then mean it cannot be used for two horses until it is up-plated again
I will use this vehicle as an example
Nissan X trail (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Unladen/kerb = 1515
GVW = 2050
Towing = 2000
Max trailer plated MAM = 1450 kgs
The Cheval would need down plating from 2000 to 1450 using the above Xtrail which would then leave 710 kgs for the horse/load
For B+E provisional towing .....
You can use the L200 and trailer as it is with 2 horses in it
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
Ahh I see, ideally Ill need it for two horses so looks like Im best taking my test arent I to save any messing about!
When you book your test on line do they supply a trailer ROG or do you have to take your own?
When you book your test on line do they supply a trailer ROG or do you have to take your own?
ROG
Well-Known Member
The practical test is usually booked by the training company you go with and that fee is usually in with the price of the course
The training company supply both the vehicle and trailer
A LGV/B+E training company near me does 3 half days training with test on day 3 for the all in price of about £650 - retests extra
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
Can you not just take the test without the training course?
ROG
Well-Known Member
You can legally
Check out post number 1000 in this thread for what is required on test and check out the link for the DSA vehicle and trailer test requirements
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
So Id need to fit my car with another interior mirror and get someone to come with me to the test centre (with my trailer)? Id be taking the L200 and the Cheval trailer?
ROG
Well-Known Member
YES you could
Most that fail the test do so out on the road by not driving as the DSA want you to
ROG
Well-Known Member
Extra EXTERIOR MIRRORS (one each side) for examiner not interior
Interior mirrors not much good when all you can see with them is the trailer
Interior mirrors not much good when all you can see with them is the trailer
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
Are they the ones that extend your exiting existing mirrors?
Ive been practising with the trailer and doing really well - are they different driving rules to that of a normal car driving test? ie asking speed limits, etc or will they be questions about the trailer only?
Ive been practising with the trailer and doing really well - are they different driving rules to that of a normal car driving test? ie asking speed limits, etc or will they be questions about the trailer only?
ROG
Well-Known Member
Same as car test in general
The 5 questions at the start can relate to any part of the set up - they are listed in post 1000
The mirrors are usually clip mirrors which are extra to the ones already there but do not obscure the originals - bit like caravan towing mirrors
Victoria25
Well-Known Member
Thanks ROG, greatly appreciated, I watched the video you posted my friend is a driving instructor so was going to perhaps have a refresher lesson to cover basics before taking the test.