Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[mischamoo]

Hi ROG, in relation to my posts 967-969, I just thought I'd update you as I've just received the following info from Ifor Williams about down plating the new HB403 (single trailer) which I enquired into buying to tow with my freelander. I was looking for them to down plate it by 200kg from 1600kg to 1400kg to accomodate my B licence towing regs of 3.5ton however they've informed me that they now cannot downplate new trailers as they come with a EU certificate of Conformity and the trailers cannot change from the spec they were built with. However, used trailers, so in my case, the older model of the HB403 which is the HB401, can be down plated still. Just thought it might help others out there in case they look to downplate the new HB403 model.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, in relation to my posts 967-969, I just thought I'd update you as I've just received the following info from Ifor Williams about down plating the new HB403 (single trailer) which I enquired into buying to tow with my freelander. I was looking for them to down plate it by 200kg from 1600kg to 1400kg to accomodate my B licence towing regs of 3.5ton however they've informed me that they now cannot downplate new trailers as they come with a EU certificate of Conformity and the trailers cannot change from the spec they were built with. However, used trailers, so in my case, the older model of the HB403 which is the HB401, can be down plated still. Just thought it might help others out there in case they look to downplate the new HB403 model.

Thank you for that

I will have to contact other trailer manufacturers and see if they say the same

 

[noodle_]

can i ask

is there ANY estate cars which are safe to pull a bog standard trailer (such as an ifor)???

horse in question will max out around 15.2 if im very lucky!... but shes a lightweight sports horse type and will only ever be the one towed.

i really cant justify a 4x4....but want to be safe!

thanks

 

[ROG]

can i ask

is there ANY estate cars which are safe to pull a bog standard trailer (such as an ifor)???

horse in question will max out around 15.2 if im very lucky!... but shes a lightweight sports horse type and will only ever be the one towed.

i really cant justify a 4x4....but want to be safe!

thanks

There are loads that will tow safely but unless they are 4x4 you will find that you are somewhat resticted to good solid ground

You need one with at least a 1500 kg towing capacity from the info you have given

If intending to tow on a B licence then other factors will come into play

 

[noodle_]

thanks

im a bit confused about licences... im 24, so on the "youngsters" licence do i have to take another test to tow anything??


i did look into this a while ago.... but got utterly baffled so sadly switched off

i like the volvo estate (i have dogs and need a bigger car)...love the mazda 6 estate and not looked into any more yet - i would consider a 4x 4 but only towing once a week dosent make it viable....current car drinks £40 a week in fuel from runs :/

 

[ROG]

thanks

im a bit confused about licences... im 24, so on the "youngsters" licence do i have to take another test to tow anything??


i did look into this a while ago.... but got utterly baffled so sadly switched off

i like the volvo estate (i have dogs and need a bigger car)...love the mazda 6 estate and not looked into any more yet - i would consider a 4x 4 but only towing once a week dosent make it viable....current car drinks £40 a week in fuel from runs :/

Apart from needing a decent towing capacity which I guess to be about 1500 then you need to comply to these simple rules for B licence towing

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not add up to more than 3500 kgs
The trailer plated MAM must not be more than the vehicle kerbweight

MAM = the maximum the trailer can be when fully loaded
GVW = the maximum the vehicle can be when fully loaded
KERBWEIGHT = the weight of the vehicle when empty

 

[noodle_]

thank you

will go research some cars and trailers and give you a bell to check i will be legal before i buy

 

[Victoria25]

ROG, do you have any examples of vehicles/trailer combinations that you could drive on a normal b licence?

 

[ROG]

ROG, do you have any examples of vehicles/trailer combinations that you could drive on a normal b licence?

see post number 999 of this thread

 

[Victoria25]

Suzuki vitara (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1400
GVW = 1950
Towing = 1850
Max trailer plated MAM = 1400 kgs

If I got this ROG ... would I be able to downplate my Cheval Liberte 2004 from 2000 to 1400? What does downplating actually mean? x

 

[Victoria25]

Ive seen a Vitara with the following:

Kerb = 1445
GVW = 1800
Towing = 1600

Would I be able to downplate my Cheval Liberte 2004 (2000kgs) to say 1445? Would I then be able to drive this on a b license? One horse only. x

 

[ROG]

Suzuki vitara (4X4) with these specifications/dimensions
Kerb = 1400
GVW = 1950
Towing = 1850
Max trailer plated MAM = 1400 kgs

If I got this ROG ... would I be able to downplate my Cheval Liberte 2004 from 2000 to 1400? What does downplating actually mean? x

Yes you can down plate it

That simply involves cantacting Cheval Liberte and then taking it to one of their dealers - cost is usually little or nothing

Ive seen a Vitara with the following:

Kerb = 1445
GVW = 1800
Towing = 1600

Would I be able to downplate my Cheval Liberte 2004 (2000kgs) to say 1445? Would I then be able to drive this on a b license? One horse only. x

YES


You're getting the hang of this

 

[Victoria25]

Woopeeeee, haha, think Im getting the hang of this with your help ;0) x

 

[Victoria25]

What do they physically do to the trailer to downplate it? Or is it just something that says you’re only towing ‘x’ weight?

 

[ROG]

What do they physically do to the trailer to downplate it? Or is it just something that says you’re only towing ‘x’ weight?

A trailer should have a plate on it which is usually silver in colour

On that plate is has the unladen or empty weight and the MAM weight which is the maximum it can legally weigh when fully loaded

When down plated the plate is removed and replaced with a new one

That new one will have the same unladen weight on it but the MAM weight will be lower so that means it can legally weigh less when fully loaded

 

[Victoria25]

Ahh OK, so could I keep the old one and replace it if/when I tow with the L200 and need to tow two horses (with another older person in with me that has B&E license)? x

 

[ROG]

Ahh OK, so could I keep the old one and replace it if/when I tow with the L200 and need to tow two horses (with another older person in with me that has B&E license)? x

Once it is down plated then you must go throught the same process to get it up-plated

You cannot interchange between plates at will

 

[Victoria25]

Ok, thats fine - really helpful knowing all this ROG.

One last one - a Land rover freelander:

GVW - 2040
max tow weight - 1800
kerb weight -1457

Again if I get trailer to mam 1445 ... will this be ok on b license?

Im assuming 2040 plus 1445 - 3485 (less than 3500)
1445 is less than the 1457?

 

[ROG]

Ok, thats fine - really helpful knowing all this ROG.

One last one - a Land rover freelander:

GVW - 2040
max tow weight - 1800
kerb weight -1457

Again if I get trailer to mam 1445 ... will this be ok on b license?

Im assuming 2040 plus 1445 - 3485 (less than 3500)
1445 is less than the 1457?

Dear site members,
I am going to give up answering posts on this thread and leave it up to the new kid on the block called Victoria25

 

[Victoria25]

hahahaha .. so sorry for all the questions, just in middle of changing my car and possibly taking trailer test so now theres an option of me not taking the test - opened up a whole new world!

 

[ROG]

hahahaha .. so sorry for all the questions, just in middle of changing my car and possibly taking trailer test so now theres an option of me not taking the test - opened up a whole new world!

Taking the B+E test would open up loads more options and will be needed if you ever need to tow two horses

Passing that test lasts for life ..... well, as long as the car (B) licence remains valid

 

[ROG]

Originally Posted by mischamoo
Hi ROG, in relation to my posts 967-969, I just thought I'd update you as I've just received the following info from Ifor Williams about down plating the new HB403 (single trailer) which I enquired into buying to tow with my freelander. I was looking for them to down plate it by 200kg from 1600kg to 1400kg to accomodate my B licence towing regs of 3.5ton however they've informed me that they now cannot downplate new trailers as they come with a EU certificate of Conformity and the trailers cannot change from the spec they were built with. However, used trailers, so in my case, the older model of the HB403 which is the HB401, can be down plated still. Just thought it might help others out there in case they look to downplate the new HB403 model.

Thank you for that

I will have to contact other trailer manufacturers and see if they say the same

I have called 3 manufacturers and got different responses on this issue

IFOR state that a trailer made after Oct 2012 cannot be downplated

BATESON state that a trailer made after Oct 2012 can be downplated as long as it remains in the UK but would need to go back to its original plate if going outside UK because the rest of the EU has trailer registraion rules

CHEVAL state that they know nothing about this issue

It seems as though the directive can be interpereted in more than one way

At the moment it looks like IFOR are going to miss out on new sales for B licence towers

 

[mischamoo]

I have called 3 manufacturers and got different responses on this issue

IFOR state that a trailer made after Oct 2012 cannot be downplated

BATESON state that a trailer made after Oct 2012 can be downplated as long as it remains in the UK but would need to go back to its original plate if going outside UK because the rest of the EU has trailer registraion rules

CHEVAL state that they know nothing about this issue

It seems as though the directive can be interpereted in more than one way

At the moment it looks like IFOR are going to miss out on new sales for B licence towers

Thanks for clarifying and yes indeed it looks like IFOR will miss out on new sales for B licence towers as it's just not possible to tow a trailer with a MAM of 1600kg and be within the 3500kg restriction. In that case I may now settle for a nice Cheval Liberte Gold One Pullman and downplate from 1600kg to 1400kg having spoken with the manufacturers

 

[ROG]

I just called and had a very nice chat with EQUITREK trailers

Their take is that a new trailer made after October 2012 needs type approval but that approval can include various MAM weights for the trailer

This type approval is only kept at the manufacturers of each trailer so there in no national database for the authorities to check with if stopped at the roadside - the only way is for them to check is to contact the manufacturer with the trailer serial number

The rest of Europe on the other hand has all their trailers registered like their vehicles so the info is readily available on a database

Where compulsory trailer checks etc are concerned for trailers not more than 3500 kgs MAM we are the only EU country that has ..... nothing

 

[MSS]

Does anyone know if there is a way to raise your towbar? I have VW transporter that has been lowered and that means that the towbar is little low for my Ifor Williams... Any help would be much appriciated!

 

[Beetlebug]

Hi Rog,

Can you check if this is legal,

B&E licence
Car freelander,
gross weight of car 2080kg
max towing weight 1800kg
Kerb weight min 1619kg

Trailer ifor Williams 505
Gross weight 2340kg
Unladen weight 905kg

Horse weight 500kg

Many thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog,

Can you check if this is legal,

B&E licence
Car freelander,
gross weight of car 2080kg
max towing weight 1800kg
Kerb weight min 1619kg

Trailer ifor Williams 505
Gross weight 2340kg
Unladen weight 905kg

Horse weight 500kg

Many thanks

You have a B+E so the lower of the weights in blue are used which in this case is 1800
1800 minus 905 = 895 for the load/horse in the trailer

Perfectly legal and safe for a single 500 kgs horse with almost 40 kgs to spare

 

[Beetlebug]

Thank you Rog

 

[tinap]

Rog need your help urgently!!

Can I tow an Ifor 510 classic (1000kg ish empty) with a ford Mondeo 2ltr which has a towing capacity of 1800kg? Horse weights approx 500kg.

I have B& E licence. Being told I won't be legal as mam on trailer says 2700kg but that is double dutch to me!!!

Cheers xx

 

[ROG]

Rog need your help urgently!!

Can I tow an Ifor 510 classic (1000kg ish empty) with a ford Mondeo 2ltr which has a towing capacity of 1800kg? Horse weights approx 500kg.

I have B& E licence. Being told I won't be legal as mam on trailer says 2700kg but that is double dutch to me!!!

Cheers xx

Some numpties believe an internet myth that the plated MAM of a trailer cannot exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle

If anyone says this to you then ask them under what law they are alluding to

As long as the actual weight of the trailer and its load does not exceed 1800 then you have followed the non legal guidelines of the vehicle manufacturer