Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

What do you know of the new Hyundai Santa Fe?
I have a cheval trailer (750kg) currently tow with a rav 4 (1 horse) I'd like to tow 2 and would like to change the trailer to an ifor at some point,but need the car for everyday use as well. I have a pre- 97 licence

CHOOSE YOUR MODEL FROM THIS LIST then scroll down the specifications to find the towing capacity

B+E licence = ok

Ifor double trailer will be between 900 to 1000 depending on which you opt for
Two horses in the region of 1000 ?
2000 capacity will be close so go for a towing capacity of 2500 or higher

 

[LovesCobs]

Hmmmm think I might go for a pathfinder and have 3000 limit, any experience with them as cars? I'll post in tackroom as well

 

[Olliepop]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1655kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2250kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2200kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres = 1400kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 550kg

Is this legal on a B licence and what would weight would I be able to carry in the trailer?

 

[ROG]

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1655kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 2250kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 2200kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres = 1400kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 550kg

Is this legal on a B licence and what would weight would I be able to carry in the trailer?

Not legal on a B licence because GVW 2250 + Trailer MAM 1400 = 3650 which is 150 kgs over the 3500 limit

To make it legal the trailer would need down plating to 1250 and would then be able to carry a weight of 700 (1250-550=700)
I hope the manufacturer of that trailer is still trading so you can down plate it

Thats a very light trailer at 550 so have you double checked that?

 

[Olliepop]

Thanks ROG - I don't have a trailer at the moment so it's all hypothetical. It was one of the Cheval 1003 XL Pullman trailers which was quoted as 550kg although maybe the website had it wrong. I'd better have a look at the B+E test requirements - not looking forward to another driving test I'm getting too old!

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG - I don't have a trailer at the moment so it's all hypothetical. It was one of the Cheval 1003 XL Pullman trailers which was quoted as 550kg although maybe the website had it wrong. I'd better have a look at the B+E test requirements - not looking forward to another driving test I'm getting too old!

From memory the Cheval Liberte (company still trading )1003 is 675 kgs unladen/empty so at 1250 kgs (downplated MAM) that would leave 575 kgs for the horse/load in the trailer

Getting B+E will always serve you well in the future if not now so is worth getting IMO and its for life

 

[mischamoo]

Hi ROG, in a previous post to mine I have been looking further into the single trailer (the ifor HB403 or HB401) option as I only hold a B licence. I want to tow a horse weighing approx 500kgs, (me tack water etc is probably never more than 100kgs) so far most the 4x4's I've seen (if my understanding is correct) including the smaller ones like Rav 4's and freelanders, I would not be able to legally tow as the majority of their GVW is c.2000kg, so combined with the maximum gross weight of the ifor single which is approx 1600kg I would be over the 3.5ton combination. If what I've taken in is correct what options of towing vehicles can I legally tow this trailer on? Or is the simplest option to get one of the smaller 4x4's (I quite like the Kia sportages if that would tow the trailer in question? One I have seen has a GVW of 1928kg, towing unbraked 465kg, kerb weight 1498kg, towing weight braked 1800kg, loading weight 400kg) am I looking for the impossible?? Any suggestions of 4x4 I can legally tow with the ifor single would be great and ease my headache!! Thankyou!!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, in a previous post to mine I have been looking further into the single trailer (the ifor HB403 or HB401) option as I only hold a B licence.

I want to tow a horse weighing approx 500kgs, (me tack water etc is probably never more than 100kgs) so far most the 4x4's I've seen (if my understanding is correct) including the smaller ones like Rav 4's and freelanders, I would not be able to legally tow as the majority of their GVW is c.2000kg, so combined with the maximum gross weight of the ifor single which is approx 1600kg I would be over the 3.5ton combination.

If what I've taken in is correct what options of towing vehicles can I legally tow this trailer on? Or is the simplest option to get one of the smaller 4x4's (I quite like the Kia sportages if that would tow the trailer in question?

One I have seen has a GVW of 1928kg, towing unbraked 465kg, kerb weight 1498kg, towing weight braked 1800kg, loading weight 400kg) am I looking for the impossible??

Any suggestions of 4x4 I can legally tow with the ifor single would be great and ease my headache!! Thankyou!!

YOU MISSED THE EASY OPTION = down plating the HB401/403 to conform to the 3500 rule.

This can easily be done by contacting the manufacturer (Ifor Williams in this case) who will then do the necessary at their end then put you in touch with your nearest dealer who will physically change the plate all at little or no cost

Down plating a HB401/403 from 1600 to 1400 would still leave 630 for the load/horse 1400-770=630
That leaves 2100 for the vehicle GVW and its very unlikely that the kerbweight will be less than 1400

 

[mischamoo]

YOU MISSED THE EASY OPTION = down plating the HB401/403 to conform to the 3500 rule.

This can easily be done by contacting the manufacturer (Ifor Williams in this case) who will then do the necessary at their end then put you in touch with your nearest dealer who will physically change the plate all at little or no cost

Down plating a HB401/403 from 1600 to 1400 would still leave 630 for the load/horse 1400-770=630
That leaves 2100 for the vehicle GVW and its very unlikely that the kerbweight will be less than 1400

ROG, you've saved me another headache search in looking for the perfect towing beast! In that case I think I will purchase the Kia Sportage I've seen with going for the Ifor 403 or 401 and downplating! Thanks so much! You a are towing fountain of knowledge and I'm sure I'm not the only HHO'er you have kindly helped!

 

[Julia0803]

Hi ROG,

I was wondering if you could please help me.

I am about to inherit a 2007 BMW 5 series M sport with 3 litre diesel engine. I wondered if I could tow with it. i have been having a google and think this is what I've found.


Gross Weight 2305 kg
Kerb Weight 1770 kg
Towing Limit (braked)2000 kg

I am trying to investigate what options, if any, i would have with regard to what I could tow.

I currently have a B licence, but would look into the B+E if necessary.

I have one 14.2/3 weighing approx 400kg

I currently catch lifts with a friend in her horse box. But it would be great if I could transport myself.

I guess I would be looking at one of the very light, single horse trailers? Can you recommend a brand or model that i should be looking at?

Thanks very much.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

I was wondering if you could please help me.

I am about to inherit a 2007 BMW 5 series M sport with 3 litre diesel engine. I wondered if I could tow with it. i have been having a google and think this is what I've found.


Gross Weight 2305 kg
Kerb Weight 1770 kg
Towing Limit (braked)2000 kg

I am trying to investigate what options, if any, i would have with regard to what I could tow.

I currently have a B licence, but would look into the B+E if necessary.

I have one 14.2/3 weighing approx 400kg

I currently catch lifts with a friend in her horse box. But it would be great if I could transport myself.

I guess I would be looking at one of the very light, single horse trailers? Can you recommend a brand or model that i should be looking at?

Thanks very much.

Some ideas .....
BATESON LIGHT HORSE TRAILER = 675 kgs unladen
CHEVAL LIGHT HORSE TRAILER = 655 kgs unladen
IFOR LIGHT HORSE TRAILER = 770 kgs unladen

Contact trailer manufacturer to have trailer downplated if needed (free or very little cost)

The max trailer plated MAM for that vehicle on a B licence will only be 1195 kgs and the lightest unladen weight in those examples is 655 kgs so using those figures you would be left with a max payload of 540 kgs which is plenty for a 400 kg horse

The heaviest of those examples has a 770 unladen weight so down plating that to 1195 kgs will leave a payload of 425 kgs which is a bit tight

Using a standard saloon instead of a 4X4 is ok but driving on a non hard surface is very likely to cause problems

 

[Julia0803]

Thanks very much for your reply ROG.

I will look into those trailers suggested. I would be looking to buy second hand. I'd start looking at the lightest as of course that gives a little extra wiggle room for tack/water etc.

The car is rear wheel drive, I don't know how that affects things, if at all?

I don't think I would be going anywhere off road or muddy at least. At the moment it would be on road and then onto tarmac-ed surfaces at other yards to take my son to PC/local equestrian centre. In the summer most of the local level shows are on grass but usually fairly firm (unless we have another summer like last year!!) Would it be up to the job on a firm grassy surface, or would it be better to try and catch a lift on such occasions?

Thank you again

 

[ROG]

Thanks very much for your reply ROG.

I will look into those trailers suggested. I would be looking to buy second hand. I'd start looking at the lightest as of course that gives a little extra wiggle room for tack/water etc.

The car is rear wheel drive, I don't know how that affects things, if at all?

I don't think I would be going anywhere off road or muddy at least. At the moment it would be on road and then onto tarmac-ed surfaces at other yards to take my son to PC/local equestrian centre. In the summer most of the local level shows are on grass but usually fairly firm (unless we have another summer like last year!!) Would it be up to the job on a firm grassy surface, or would it be better to try and catch a lift on such occasions?

Thank you again

Hard dry grass = ok but I would not risk it on anything less

Remember to contact the trailer manufacturer when you get a trailer so do not choose a trailer where they have gone out of business

RWD gives more grip with a trailer on

 

[Julia0803]

Thanks.

Does that mean you cannot get the MAM plate changed if the manufacturer has gone out of business?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[ROG]

Does that mean you cannot get the MAM plate changed if the manufacturer has gone out of business?

It does indeed mean just that

 

[slumdog]

I was wondering if this van could legally tow anything?

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - (kerb weight?) 1185
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 1700
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - I've been trying to find out but google varies, I'll say 850kg as stated on "whatvan"

Thank you

 

[ROG]

I was wondering if this van could legally tow anything?

1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - (kerb weight?) 1185
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle - 1700
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - I've been trying to find out but google varies, I'll say 850kg as stated on "whatvan"

Thank you

Providing the GTW or towing capacity allow then the maximum trailer plated MAM would be 1185 kgs on a B licence

IS IT THIS VAN ?

 

[slumdog]

So if the GTW 850kg is correct could I still tow 1185kgs? Sorry, I probably sound dumb but it gives me such a headache lol! It's an escort van 1.8 55td, I rang ford who were useless and just told me to google it! I want a lightweight one horse trailer. Thanks for your help!

 

[slumdog]

http://www.helpfindmea.co.uk/vans/s...l-95-02-18-van-turbo-specifications-1796.aspx

This one

 

[ROG]

So if the GTW 850kg is correct could I still tow 1185kgs? Sorry, I probably sound dumb but it gives me such a headache lol! It's an escort van 1.8 55td, I rang ford who were useless and just told me to google it! I want a lightweight one horse trailer. Thanks for your help!

The GTW is usually the same as the GVW added to the towing capacity

GTW is the actual weight of the vehicle and the trailer when placed on a weighbridge

 

[ROG]

http://www.helpfindmea.co.uk/vans/s...l-95-02-18-van-turbo-specifications-1796.aspx

This one

Thanks - makes it so easy

Gross Train Weight 2550
Gross Vehicle Weight 1700
Minimum Kerbweight 1185

There is no max towing capacity listed so if the van is fully loaded to 1700 then the trailer can be loaded to 850 kgs

On your B licence you can have a trailer plated at 1185 kgs MAM and fully load it to that weight but the van can only be 1365 actual weight if it is because 1185+1365=2550

 

[slumdog]

Thanks - makes it so easy

Gross Train Weight 2550
Gross Vehicle Weight 1700
Minimum Kerbweight 1185

There is no max towing capacity listed so if the van is fully loaded to 1700 then the trailer can be loaded to 850 kgs

On your B licence you can have a trailer plated at 1185 kgs MAM and fully load it to that weight but the van can only be 1365 actual weight if it is because 1185+1365=2550

So do you think it will be possible to find a lightweight one horse trailer? Providing I have nothing in the van whilst towing? I have my eye on a small trailer but its not a 'make' and they don't know the weight (helpful I know lol) I find it so confusing! To be honest I'd just buy a 3.5t lorry with a decent payload if I could afford it!

Edited to say- I noticed you're also in Leicester, do you know where the test can be taken?

 

[ROG]

So do you think it will be possible to find a lightweight one horse trailer? Providing I have nothing in the van whilst towing? I have my eye on a small trailer but its not a 'make' and they don't know the weight (helpful I know lol) I find it so confusing! To be honest I'd just buy a 3.5t lorry with a decent payload if I could afford it!

Edited to say- I noticed you're also in Leicester, do you know where the test can be taken?

THESE are who I would recommend for B+E training and test but there are others in the area

The lightest trailer I know of is a Cheval liberte at 655 empty so with a MAM down plated to 1185 that would leave 530 for the load/horse

It would be a very unusual set up using that van and I would be concerned as to its stability

 

[slumdog]

THESE are who I would recommend for B+E training and test but there are others in the area

The lightest trailer I know of is a Cheval liberte at 655 empty so with a MAM down plated to 1185 that would leave 530 for the load/horse

It would be a very unusual set up using that van and I would be concerned as to its stability

We have towed using the van (not a horse though) and it was ok. But I wouldn't want to tow it if it was unsafe, maybe have a re-think then. Thanks for your help x

 

[Victoria25]

Anyone else tow a trailer with a Dodge Nitro? Its spec says:

2.8 engine car
Gross vehicle weight – 2520kg
Max load weight - 505kg
Max tow weight (braked) 2394
Max tow weight (unbraked) 750
Min kerb weight – 2015

My trailer is the 2004 Cheval Liberte (double trailer) and it says the unladen weight of this is 740 (gross max 2000kg).

It would be travelling a 16.1 TB (lightweight), a 16hh arab (dainty) or a youngster (one at any one time)

Would this 4x4 be suitable or not? x

 

[ROG]

Anyone else tow a trailer with a Dodge Nitro? Its spec says:

2.8 engine car
Gross vehicle weight – 2520kg
Max load weight - 505kg
Max tow weight (braked) 2394
Max tow weight (unbraked) 750
Min kerb weight – 2015

My trailer is the 2004 Cheval Liberte (double trailer) and it says the unladen weight of this is 740 (gross max 2000kg).

It would be travelling a 16.1 TB (lightweight), a 16hh arab (dainty) or a youngster (one at any one time)

Would this 4x4 be suitable or not? x

Perfectly ok under B+E licence rules

The maximum actual weight of the trailer including its load is 2000 kgs.
2000 is well within the vehicles towing capacity of 2394 so the vehicle should be able to easily cope with a max loaded trailer of 2000

 

[clippi]

I'm missing some bits of information, sorry
B+E
2.5 engine car
Gross vehicle weight – 2640kg
Max load weight -
Max tow weight (braked) 3000
Max tow weight (unbraked)
Min kerb weight – 2065

Trailer: Max gross weight 2340 kg

Unladen weight 905.00 kg

What does this mean I can have inside the trailer assuming I'm legal

 

[ROG]

I'm missing some bits of information, sorry
B+E
2.5 engine car
Gross vehicle weight – 2640kg
Max load weight -
Max tow weight (braked) 3000
Max tow weight (unbraked)
Min kerb weight – 2065

Trailer: Max gross weight 2340 kg

Unladen weight 905.00 kg

What does this mean I can have inside the trailer assuming I'm legal

You have the important bits in this case

The maximum your trailer can be when fully loaded is 2340 kgs

For B+E towing the LOWEST of these figures is the one to go by ....
Vehicle towing capacity - 3000 in this case
Trailer plated MAM - 2340 in this case

 

[Victoria25]

Perfectly ok under B+E licence rules

The maximum actual weight of the trailer including its load is 2000 kgs.
2000 is well within the vehicles towing capacity of 2394 so the vehicle should be able to easily cope with a max loaded trailer of 2000

Thanks so much ROG ... so does that mean I could tow two if I had to? Or would that be too much? I probably wont ever need to but just incase? x

 

[ROG]

Thanks so much ROG ... so does that mean I could tow two if I had to? Or would that be too much? I probably wont ever need to but just incase? x

2000-740=1260 so that is 1260 for the load/horses so it depends on how heavy the horses are plus anything else you load into it