Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

Hi Rog I got my detachable tow bar sorted out last week thanks. When I picked up the trailer the supplier said they hadn't fitted a hitch point for the breakaway cable and that the power was Euro not GB. I've sorted the latter with an adaptor but any ideas on where to go to get a hitch point fitted as when I called the dealer they didn't have a solution and didn't know it was illegal to tow without one!

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/hitching.aspx

Attach safety breakaway cable(s) to the rear of vehicle. This cable will apply the hand brake if for any reason the trailer becomes detached whilst towing. (Clip the breakaway cable onto the special rings some towbars have or loop it around the bar, making sure it cannot foul the coupling head. Do not loop it round the towball neck unless you can find no alternative.) Check that the breakaway and lighting cables have enough slack for cornering but will not touch the ground.

 

[MadJ]

Me again. I have now actually found myself an instructor to train me for my test, however he has told me I can't practice unless I am supervised by an approved instructor or have someone with me who has held the towing licence for 3+ years.

I was of the understanding that I could legally tow as long as I had someone with me who had a pre 97 licence and L plates. He told me this is illegal and would invalidate my insurance should something happen.

 

[ROG]

Me again. I have now actually found myself an instructor to train me for my test, however he has told me I can't practice unless I am supervised by an approved instructor or have someone with me who has held the towing licence for 3+ years.

I was of the understanding that I could legally tow as long as I had someone with me who had a pre 97 licence and L plates. He told me this is illegal and would invalidate my insurance should something happen.

THIS IS THE LAW and is available to find on the internet ....

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

I would be obliged if you could tell me what B+E school this is on my spare email address advanced.driving@live.co.uk please

 

[JulzS]

Hi, wondered if I could pick your brains?

I have a rice continental trailer, unladen weight 900kg (thats what it says on the plate, I suspect its even lighter as it doesnt have the original heavy partition in), max 2700kg
I have my B+E licence
Will only ever tow one horse 700kg (he cant travel with partition)

Looking to get a 4x4 towing vehicle, what would I be legal with? Being told I absolutely must have a vehicle that is plated to tow at least 2700kg as that is what is on trailer but after reading this thread I am thinking maybe not? Confused, any help appreciated!

 

[ROG]

Hi, wondered if I could pick your brains?

I have a rice continental trailer, unladen weight 900kg (thats what it says on the plate, I suspect its even lighter as it doesnt have the original heavy partition in), max 2700kg
I have my B+E licence
Will only ever tow one horse 700kg (he cant travel with partition)

Looking to get a 4x4 towing vehicle, what would I be legal with? Being told I absolutely must have a vehicle that is plated to tow at least 2700kg as that is what is on trailer but after reading this thread I am thinking maybe not? Confused, any help appreciated!

I see this INTERNET MYTH has come up again !!

Whoever said that too you wants shooting !!

There is no law or rule which states that the vehicle manufacturers recommended towing capacity must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer

Simple rules for B+E = Use the lower of either the towing capacity or the trailler MAM weight for the max actual weight of the trailer when loaded

 

[JulzS]

Thank you very much, as I thought but jut wanted to check

 

[EveningStar]

Anyone got any good tips on hitching up the trailer?
I'm pretty ok at getting the truck to line up with the coupling on the trailer but absolutely useless at judging the distance to get the towball under the coupling (heavy trailer absolutely no hope of being able to move it by hand. I seem to either an inch too forward or too far back!

 

[ROG]

Anyone got any good tips on hitching up the trailer?
I'm pretty ok at getting the truck to line up with the coupling on the trailer but absolutely useless at judging the distance to get the towball under the coupling (heavy trailer absolutely no hope of being able to move it by hand. I seem to either an inch too forward or too far back!

If internal rear view mirror has good rear view then attach second mirror outside at back looking down which can be seen by rear view mirror

Or expensive rear view camera

That is the only way I can see where you can be inch perfect every time

 

[Twinkley Lights]

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/hitching.aspx

Thanks ROG I'm being blond , there is nothing to hitch to on the car so it would be wrap around the tow bar which I was told was illegal and 3 points if I'm stopped??

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG I'm being blond , there is nothing to hitch to on the car so it would be wrap around the tow bar which I was told was illegal and 3 points if I'm stopped??

Cannot be illegal if the NTTA say to do it if no other alternative available

 

[Twinkley Lights]

Cannot be illegal if the NTTA say to do it if no other alternative available

Cheers will keep me going until I can find someone to weld one on

 

[alainax]

I have a daft question....

I sat my B+E so I could "You’ll need to do this if you want to tow a trailer or caravan heavier than 750 kilograms (kg) when the combined maximum authorised mass (MAM) of the towing vehicle and the trailer or caravan is more than 3,500kg."

However... what's my limit now?

 

[ROG]

I have a daft question....

I sat my B+E so I could "You’ll need to do this if you want to tow a trailer or caravan heavier than 750 kilograms (kg) when the combined maximum authorised mass (MAM) of the towing vehicle and the trailer or caravan is more than 3,500kg."

However... what's my limit now?

You are now only limited by the weight limits listed for the vehicle and the plated MAM of the trailer

Unless you passed both B and B+E after 19/01/2013, you have no licence upper weight limits for B+E

If you did pass both B and B+E after 19/01/2013 then a max limit of 3500 kgs plated MAM is placed on the trailer you can tow

 

[alainax]

You are now only limited by the weight limits listed for the vehicle and the plated MAM of the trailer

Unless you passed both B and B+E after 19/01/2013, you have no licence upper weight limits for B+E

If you did pass both B and B+E after 19/01/2013 then a max limit of 3500 kgs plated MAM is placed on the trailer you can tow

Thanks Rog


I pass B before, and B+E after

So that means I have "no licence upper weight limits for B+E" ( just what ever the car can pull?)

Sorry, Just lookign at getting a big heavy car, that can pull big heavy trailers and wondered

 

[ROG]

Thanks Rog


I pass B before, and B+E after

So that means I have "no licence upper weight limits for B+E" ( just what ever the car can pull?)

Sorry, Just lookign at getting a big heavy car, that can pull big heavy trailers and wondered

B before 19/01/2013 and B+E after means no upper weight limit for you

What the car can tow as long as the trailer MAM is not lower than that - you cannot have a vehicle with a 3500 towing capacity and a trailer with a 2500 plated MAM and load the trailer so it weighs 3500 because 2500 would be your limit in that case

If it was a 2500 towing capacity with a 3500 plated MAM trailer then I would not recommend loading the trailer to an actual weight over 2500 because although the towing capacity is not a legal weight requirement in law exceeding it could void the warranty, the insurance and be deemed unsafe

 

[ROG]

can i tow a brand new ifor 506 with a 61 plate 2.2 rav 4 with an old person next to me and L plates on?

Providing the towing capacity of the vehicle and the trailer plated MAM will be cope with the total weight of the load trailer then YES you can do that


SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

 

[Lamc]

I'm trying to work out the maximum laden weight of my single trailer. Its quite old so doesn't have a plate.
The unladen weight is 690kg (weighed on weighbridge )

I'm stuck with working out the total load - 2 tyres are 70T which on the index is 437kg the other two tyres are 80R which is 450kg.

437+437+450+450= 1774kg

So maximum laden weight = 1774kg
Trailer weighs = 690kg
Capacity = 1084kg

Is that correct?
If my sums are correct then in theory if the towing car weighed less than 1726kg the setup would be suitable for b licence towing?

Also can a trailer be downplated if it doesn't have a plate and the company that make it no longer exists?
Thanks.

 

[ROG]

I'm trying to work out the maximum laden weight of my single trailer. Its quite old so doesn't have a plate.
The unladen weight is 690kg (weighed on weighbridge )

I'm stuck with working out the total load - 2 tyres are 70T which on the index is 437kg the other two tyres are 80R which is 450kg.

437+437+450+450= 1774kg

So maximum laden weight = 1774kg
Trailer weighs = 690kg
Capacity = 1084kg

Is that correct?
If my sums are correct then in theory if the towing car weighed less than 1726kg the setup would be suitable for b licence towing?

Also can a trailer be downplated if it doesn't have a plate and the company that make it no longer exists?
Thanks.

You are correct with your maths - gets big grin from your former maths teacher

ONLY the manufacturer of the trailer can make or change the plate
Home made or other plates are not legal

With a MAM of 1774 you would need a vehicle which has a MINIMUM kerbweight of 1774 and a MAXIMUM GVW of 1726 so that is IMPOSSIBLE for B licence towing

What make is this trailer you have ?

 

[Lamc]

It's a sinclair

 

[ROG]

It's a sinclair

OUCH !!

One thought .... If you know a company, even a one man band company, who make trailers and they do minor changes to your trailer so it is then their made trailer, they can they put a weight plate on it

 

[Lamc]

OUCH !!

One thought .... If you know a company, even a one man band company, who make trailers and they do minor changes to your trailer so it is then their made trailer, they can they put a weight plate on it

Thank you

 

[zulu705]

Hi,

I have questions about if my tow outfit is legal

I have a pre 97 B+E licence

Trailer MAM of 2400kg
Empty trailer weights 1200kg
Car empty 1700kg
Car tow max 2000kg

Some questions.
1. is it legal to tow the trailer empty? (I think yes it is)
2. is it legal to tow the trailer empty if I had just passed the B+E test? (I think no its not)
3. is it legal to tow with one 600kg horse in the trailer? (I think yes it is)
4. if I have a pre 97 B+E the only legalities I need to worry about are ensuring that the combined weight of horses plus trailer are less than the trailer MAM and are less than the car tow capacity, is that correct?
5. if I have a post 97 B+E then I need to worry about the car tow capacity always being greater than the trailer MAM, is that correct? and do I also need to worry about the combined weight of trailer and horses always needing to be less than the weight of the empty car as well?

 

[ROG]

Hi,

I have questions about if my tow outfit is legal

I have a pre 97 B+E licence

Trailer MAM of 2400kg
Empty trailer weights 1200kg
Car empty 1700kg
Car tow max 2000kg

Some questions.
1. is it legal to tow the trailer empty? (I think yes it is)
2. is it legal to tow the trailer empty if I had just passed the B+E test? (I think no its not)
3. is it legal to tow with one 600kg horse in the trailer? (I think yes it is)
4. if I have a pre 97 B+E the only legalities I need to worry about are ensuring that the combined weight of horses plus trailer are less than the trailer MAM and are less than the car tow capacity, is that correct?
5. if I have a post 97 B+E then I need to worry about the car tow capacity always being greater than the trailer MAM, is that correct? and do I also need to worry about the combined weight of trailer and horses always needing to be less than the weight of the empty car as well?

1 YES
2 THAT IS THE SAME AS Q1
3 YES
4 YES
5 SAME AS Q4

B+E rules are the same whether it was gained pre or post 1997
The only difference would be a trailer limit of 3500 kgs MAM if both B and B+E were passed after 19/01/2013

 

[zulu705]

Thank you.

 

[km-j]

If my trailer 505 weighs 920kg, my horse say 400kg and my car has a braked weight of 1400kg (Volvo V50, 2.0D) I have been assuming I am covered!
Thanks
Kelly

 

[ROG]

If my trailer 505 weighs 920kg, my horse say 400kg and my car has a braked weight of 1400kg (Volvo V50, 2.0D) I have been assuming I am covered!
Thanks
Kelly

Deffo OK on a B+E licence but would need more info if on a B only licence

 

[km-j]

Yeah thought so - on a B license

 

[ROG]

Yeah thought so - on a B license

If you are on a B only licence then I need this info
Vehicle GVW = ????
Vehicle Kerbweight = ????
Vehicle towing capacity = 1400
Trailer plated MAM = ????
Trailer unladen weight = 920

The extra rules for B licence towing are ....

The vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM must not add up to more than 3500

The trailer plated MAM must not be more than the vehicle kerbweight

 

[km-j]

O lord.......this is confusing!
Trailer plated MAM 2600
GVW 1390

I think the kerb weight is 1400 with the GTW being 1500 does that make sense!

I always go by the the braked weight of the car + unladen weight of trailer + horse/tack
1400+920+400=2620!!

Please tell me if I'm wrong!
Kel

 

[TURBOBERT]

I am 67 and when I am 70 I need to renew my licence. I have heard that although my current licence covers trailer towing my new licence will not and although I have towed for very many years I will need to take a trailer test. Is that true and what is the cost implication of this please?