Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Crazydancer]

Hi ROG,

Some guidance please! I'm looking to change my car, which I use for work and do A LOT of miles, so unfortunately a thirsty 4x4 will be out. I don't actually have a trailer, but know several I can borrow or hire, and all are IW HB505/506 models. For the odd occasion I want to tow, would the car below be ok? (I've shown details I can find online, not sure exactly which figures you need)
I passed my test in the 80's.
I have 2 horses, approx 450 + 550 = 1000 kg
Car:
Audi A4 2.0 TDi saloon or estate (avant)
GVW: 2020 saloon/2080 avant
Max tow wt braked: 1800 both
Min kerb wt: 1470 saloon/1530 avant

Can I carry both horses? If not, could I carry one?
Thanks!
*crosses fingers*

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,

Some guidance please! I'm looking to change my car, which I use for work and do A LOT of miles, so unfortunately a thirsty 4x4 will be out. I don't actually have a trailer, but know several I can borrow or hire, and all are IW HB505/506 models. For the odd occasion I want to tow, would the car below be ok? (I've shown details I can find online, not sure exactly which figures you need)
I passed my test in the 80's.
I have 2 horses, approx 450 + 550 = 1000 kg
Car:
Audi A4 2.0 TDi saloon or estate (avant)
GVW: 2020 saloon/2080 avant
Max tow wt braked: 1800 both
Min kerb wt: 1470 saloon/1530 avant

Can I carry both horses? If not, could I carry one?
Thanks!
*crosses fingers*

As you have a B+E licence all you have to be concerned with is the trailer MAM which is about 2340 in this case and the towing capacity of 1800
The lower of those two is used so in this case it is the 1800

The empty weight of the trailers is between 900 and 920
1800 minus 920 = 880 for the load/horses

880 is not enough for 1000 kgs so its one horse only

What you need is a vehicle with a towing capacity of 2000

Sometimes the trailers can be lighter than what the specifications state so to find out for certain the only way is to weigh the trailer when its empty

 

[flow]

My free lander td4 is 2000kg pulling capacity and I find it good on fuel. I know people don't rate them but it pulls ok ish your never going to have everything in a car so it's deciding what is best for you and your situation.

 

[OldNag]

Hello,

Before I go as far as putting a tow bar, am I being realistic or pie-in-the-sky? I have a Ford Galaxy 2.0 TDCi 2007 plate. I bought it thinking we were getting a caravan but we seem to be collecting ponies instead....

I had been saving for a 3.5t box but am thinking that just to get us out there, I could go with a trailer setup. I know I don't have a 4 x 4 but most of the time I'm going to places with hardstanding etc. It would mean not going to shows on grass on wet days but I can live with that!

I would be towing either 2 x small ponies (total weight max 530kg) or one 15hh (490kg). I haven't bought a trailer yet so if there is a max MAM I should look for that's great.

And if anyone has towed with a Galaxy, any comments welcome!

1. License = B & E (I'm ancient!)
2. Unladen car = kerb weight apparently minimum 1993kg
3. GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight = 2505kg
4. Tow capacity = I can't find this.
5. Trailer This is what I need to sort!
6. Trailer unladen weight

Thank you. This is all gobbledegook to me at the moment!

 

[ROG]

Hello,

Before I go as far as putting a tow bar, am I being realistic or pie-in-the-sky? I have a Ford Galaxy 2.0 TDCi 2007 plate. I bought it thinking we were getting a caravan but we seem to be collecting ponies instead....

I had been saving for a 3.5t box but am thinking that just to get us out there, I could go with a trailer setup. I know I don't have a 4 x 4 but most of the time I'm going to places with hardstanding etc. It would mean not going to shows on grass on wet days but I can live with that!

I would be towing either 2 x small ponies (total weight max 530kg) or one 15hh (490kg). I haven't bought a trailer yet so if there is a max MAM I should look for that's great.

And if anyone has towed with a Galaxy, any comments welcome!

1. License = B & E (I'm ancient!)
2. Unladen car = kerb weight apparently minimum 1993kg
3. GVW = Gross Vehicle Weight = 2505kg
4. Tow capacity = I can't find this.
5. Trailer This is what I need to sort!
6. Trailer unladen weight

Thank you. This is all gobbledegook to me at the moment!

From what I can get from the internet, your vehicle should have a towing capacity of 1800 kgs

I cannot find your model and the highest kerbweight I found was about 1800 kgs so nowhere near 1993 kgs - not that it is important in your case as you have a B+E licence

Somewhere on your vehicle there is a plate which will state the GVW and the GTW - if you can find it then deduct the GVW from the GTW and in most cases that will be the towing capacity - in case I have the 1800 wrong !!
That plate can be in the boot, on a door pillar (open door to see it) or under the bonnet.

Assuming the 1800 is correct and you want to load all 3 into the trailer then that would be a load of just over 1000 kgs
In that case I would look for a trailer which is no more than 750 kgs empty with a MAM of at least 1800 kgs

If you only want to load a max weight into the trailer of about 500 kgs then look for a trailer which is no more than 1200 kgs empty/unladen with a MAM of at least 1800 kgs

Load 600 with a trailer weighing 700 needs a MAM of at least 1300 kgs

Load plus empty trailer must be less than the towing capacity and less than the plated MAM of the trailer

 

[OldNag]

Thank you ROG that's brilliant. I will only put the two small ponies or ny horse in so max horse weight would be 530kg .
I shall track down those figs on my vehicle and start looking at trailer models!

 

[ROG]

Thank you ROG that's brilliant. I will only put the two small ponies or ny horse in so max horse weight would be 530kg .
I shall track down those figs on my vehicle and start looking at trailer models!

You will have a massive choice because most double trailers are between 700 and 1000 kgs empty with MAMs from 2000 to 3000 in general

 

[Crazydancer]

ROG, thanks for the reply to my question, that's really helpful. I've browsed and found a few cars that might fit the bill now, so hopefully in the next few months will get sorted with something. Now I know exactly what I'm looking at in the vehicle data!

 

[Mynyddcymro]

Hi ROG...
Really hope you can help my other half and I. My other half will be the person towing. He has a normal car driving licence and has held it for nearly four years. He hasn't done his trailer test.

We are looking at purchasing a Volvo V70 2.4 Automatic All Wheel Drive W reg.
Have had a look on the Internet for the weights etc of the car and found this website

www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volvo/v70/estate-1996/14020/

Are we right in thinking that OH doesn't need to take his trailer test providing the trailer (and car) when fully loaded does not exceed 1600kg and the car and trailer combined do not exceed 3500kg?

I hope I'm reading the direct gov website correctly.

We have been offered the use of a trailer specifically built for Shetland ponies and will be taking just the one miniature Shetland to shows.

Any clarification would be brilliant!

 

[alainax]

Hi ROG...
Really hope you can help my other half and I. My other half will be the person towing. He has a normal car driving licence and has held it for nearly four years. He hasn't done his trailer test.

We are looking at purchasing a Volvo V70 2.4 Automatic All Wheel Drive W reg.
Have had a look on the Internet for the weights etc of the car and found this website

www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volvo/v70/estate-1996/14020/

Are we right in thinking that OH doesn't need to take his trailer test providing the trailer (and car) when fully loaded does not exceed 1600kg and the car and trailer combined do not exceed 3500kg?

I hope I'm reading the direct gov website correctly.

We have been offered the use of a trailer specifically built for Shetland ponies and will be taking just the one miniature Shetland to shows.

Any clarification would be brilliant!

You may find you dont need to worry about any of that, if the trailer and the pony together weigh less than 750kg, then your in the park one bracket

From 19 January 2013, drivers passing a category B (car and small vehicle) test can tow:

small trailers weighing no more than 750kg

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG...
Really hope you can help my other half and I. My other half will be the person towing. He has a normal car driving licence and has held it for nearly four years. He hasn't done his trailer test.

We are looking at purchasing a Volvo V70 2.4 Automatic All Wheel Drive W reg.
Have had a look on the Internet for the weights etc of the car and found this website

www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/volvo/v70/estate-1996/14020/

Are we right in thinking that OH doesn't need to take his trailer test providing the trailer (and car) when fully loaded does not exceed 1600kg and the car and trailer combined do not exceed 3500kg?

I hope I'm reading the direct gov website correctly.

We have been offered the use of a trailer specifically built for Shetland ponies and will be taking just the one miniature Shetland to shows.

Any clarification would be brilliant!

The last poster has the new rules incorrect - there is no change to B licence towing from the previous rules = 100% guaranteed

I cannot find your exact vehicle on the internet but it seems from what I did find that was very similar that the GVW is about 2200 kgs

It is the GVW 2200 and not the kerb weight of about 1600 which goes towards the max 3500 kgs allowed

Lets assume it is 2200 GVW so that means your max trailer plated MAM can be no more than 1300 kgs

Again, it is the MAM of the trailer and not the actual weight which is used towards the 3500 max

As 1300 trailer MAM is not more than the 1600ish kerb weight of the Volvo then that is ok for the other rule

There will be a plate somewhere on the Volvo with the GVW - it could be hidden in the door or door frame, in the boot or under the bonnet but it will be there - the top weight of the 4 listed weights will be the GVW

There is usually a silver plate on the trailer which gives the trailer MAM

 

[alainax]

The last poster has the new rules incorrect - there is no change to B licence towing from the previous rules = 100% guaranteed

Ah crap I pasted the wrong bit, I was talking about the part one of the rule, this part -

"If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:

a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)"

So if she were example towing a mini horse 400kg mam trailer with 100kg miniature horse inside, then it would fall into this category?

and not the second part that we all know and love

"a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)"

 

[ROG]

Ah crap I pasted the wrong bit, I was talking about the part one of the rule, this part -

"If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can drive either:

a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500 kilograms (kg) Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (with a combined weight of up to 4,250kg in total)"

So if she were example towing a mini horse 400kg mam trailer with 100kg miniature horse inside, then it would fall into this category?

and not the second part that we all know and love

"a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as it is no more than the unladen or ‘kerb’ weight of the towing vehicle (with a combined weight of up to 3,500kg in total)"

The last bit is now a grey area because it was missed off and I am currently awaiting a definitive reply from the DfT minister via my MP

Until clarified I will continue to use that as being the current law as it is safer to err on the side of caution

The rest is exactly the same as its always been

 

[Mynyddcymro]

Okay thanks, I think I understand. So, the trailer when fully loaded cannot weigh more than 1300kg (providing the car does weigh 2200kg).

And if that is the case someone with a licence between 1997 and beginning of January 2013 can tow the above without taking their trailer test?

 

[ROG]

Okay thanks, I think I understand. So, the trailer when fully loaded cannot weigh more than 1300kg (providing the car does weigh 2200kg).

And if that is the case someone with a licence between 1997 and beginning of January 2013 can tow the above without taking their trailer test?

Licence from 1997 to now - not jan 2013

GVW of car = 2200 so max plated MAM of trailer = 1300

I put it that way because I was not sure if you were referring to actual weights or maximum possible legal weights (GVW or MAM)

 

[Mynyddcymro]

This is so confusing. Thanks for trying to explain though! I'll get the details for the trailer and what is written on the actual car and post again.

 

[OldNag]

Can't quote on my phone but thank you ROG for the advice. Much appreciated

 

[Bikerchickone]

Hi ROG, some advice please if you can!

Currently hold post 1997 licence, thinking of getting a lorry as more stable for my rather temperamental beast, but was wondering, if I did a C1 test to drive up to 7.5t with a towing allowance of 750kg would that mean I would also then be allowed to use a car (think large 4x4!) to tow a trailer without restriction, or does the 750kgs limit still apply even if the towing vehicle is under 3500kgs?

I'm a bit confused because DVLA website states a vehicle between 3500kg and 7500kgs can tow max of 750kgs, but doesn't say anything about what you can tow with a car under 3500kgs. If you get my drift!

Trying to be a cheapskate and not have to do two tests or pay loads more than necessary!

Oh and if I can't do that am I right in thinking Subaru Legacy B spec with GVW of 2030kg and braked trailer limit of 2000kgs would be ok to tow a downplated Bateson Darby (weighs 675kgs empty) with one 600kg horse in it as I am now? Thinking downplating from 1700kgs to 1450kgs still gives me a margin for error, and I can still have nice quick car the rest of the time!

Thank you very much!

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, some advice please if you can!

Currently hold post 1997 licence, thinking of getting a lorry as more stable for my rather temperamental beast, but was wondering, if I did a C1 test to drive up to 7.5t with a towing allowance of 750kg would that mean I would also then be allowed to use a car (think large 4x4!) to tow a trailer without restriction, or does the 750kgs limit still apply even if the towing vehicle is under 3500kgs?

I'm a bit confused because DVLA website states a vehicle between 3500kg and 7500kgs can tow max of 750kgs, but doesn't say anything about what you can tow with a car under 3500kgs. If you get my drift!

Trying to be a cheapskate and not have to do two tests or pay loads more than necessary!

Oh and if I can't do that am I right in thinking Subaru Legacy B spec with GVW of 2030kg and braked trailer limit of 2000kgs would be ok to tow a downplated Bateson Darby (weighs 675kgs empty) with one 600kg horse in it as I am now? Thinking downplating from 1700kgs to 1450kgs still gives me a margin for error, and I can still have nice quick car the rest of the time!

Thank you very much!

Subaru/bateson towing set up legal for B licence towing when trailer plated at 1450 = well understood and worked out

Passing a LGV C1 test has no effect on the B licence so the B stays under the same rules

If you passed C1 then C1+E then the B would get upgraded to B+E

 

[Bikerchickone]

Thanks ROG, somehow I knew there wouldn't be an easy way to do it! Might have to see if my local training centre will do me a deal on both!

Thank you very much for your help

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG, somehow I knew there wouldn't be an easy way to do it! Might have to see if my local training centre will do me a deal on both!

Thank you very much for your help

Think carefully ....
C1 and B+E
or
C1 and C1+E which will give you B+E for free

 

[Charlie77]

Hi, can any one tell me if in Kent there is any were I can book in and just do a trailer test? with out the full course that every one seems to want to sell?

I have a b licence or b1, I passed my test 12 years ago, I have a modern bateson trailer my other half has a ten year old grand cheroki and I compete a big horse 17.1hh 3/4 tb.
I can reverse a trailer I grew up on a farm, can I just do the test? would I need to do a theory test again? any ideas please, just want to be inderpendent!!

 

[Littlemissmoneypenny]

Hi, sorry if this has already been asked. Can I take a b+e test in an automatic? Just we have recently got a new 4x4 but its an auto and I need to do my test but don't want it restricting me to only towing with autos? Thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi, can any one tell me if in Kent there is any were I can book in and just do a trailer test? with out the full course that every one seems to want to sell?

I have a b licence or b1, I passed my test 12 years ago, I have a modern bateson trailer my other half has a ten year old grand cheroki and I compete a big horse 17.1hh 3/4 tb.
I can reverse a trailer I grew up on a farm, can I just do the test? would I need to do a theory test again? any ideas please, just want to be inderpendent!!

ONE SUGGESTION but there are others

Google - B+E trailer training Kent - for others and then call them to see what they can offer

 

[ROG]

Hi, sorry if this has already been asked. Can I take a b+e test in an automatic? Just we have recently got a new 4x4 but its an auto and I need to do my test but don't want it restricting me to only towing with autos? Thanks

Take B+E test in AUTO gets B+E AUTO only

Unless you do it in NI in which case you get B+E manual if taken in auto and already got B manual - the DVLNI work slightly differently to DVLA

 

[Finn]

Hi Rog

I drive a Nissan Terrano 2.7TD S reg 3 Door SWB

I've been told it (empty) weighs 1724. When fully loaded it could weigh 2510. For some reason it says it can tow 2800. But that's not right is it as I can't safely tow something that is heavier than the car (as the trailer would push the car along when trying to stop etc). So as long as I am towing under 1724kgs I will be fine including the weight of the trailer any my horse

for example

Horse = 550kgs
Trailer = 750gs

I cant tow an Ifor Williams or anything like that as they weigh around 900 so will be too heavy? Or can we tow an Ifor Williams 505 trailer with above horse in?

then I'm OK?

Is there still this '' you cant tow anything over and up to 85%'' rule?

This is what I was sent by someone else

''Right according to this, your car (empty) weighs 1724. When fully loaded it could weigh 2510. For some reason it says it can tow 2800. But that's not right as you can't safely tow something that is heavier than the car (as the trailer would push the car along when trying to stop etc etc). So as long as you are towing under 1724 you will be fine

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-ca...no-2-7-tdi-se-3dr-ipswich-fpa-201306227439486

The unladen (empty) weight of an ifor 5o5 is 905 kg. that means you can safely tow as long is Finn is less than 1724-905 (approx 800kg). Which she is.

So you can safely and legally tow one horse but not two''

Is this all correct?
.

 

[ROG]

Many modern vehicles are specifically designed to tow more than their GVW

One 4x4 has a GVW of 2700 and a towing capacity of 3500 - it is designed to tow 3500 at its kerb weight of 2100 !!

Generally, it is better to have the towing vehicle heavier than the trailer but that does not mean having the trailer heavier is unsafe

The 85% advice (not law or rule) is for newby caravanners only

If your vehicle has a towing capacity of 2800 then loading it to that weight is ok providing the trailer MAM allows for that

 

[Finn]

But most websites I have been on say the vehicles unladen weight in 1724 but when I rang Nissan they said 2880.

Im confused.com

 

[ROG]

But most websites I have been on say the vehicles unladen weight in 1724 but when I rang Nissan they said 2880.

Im confused.com

Why does it matter what the unladen weight of the car is if you are towing with a B+E licence ?

OK, it could matter if you are planning to load the car to its full weight capacity but that's the only reason I can think of

 

[Finn]

I thought it had to be the weight of the trialer plus the weight of the horse wasn't allowed to weight more than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it otherwise it was illegal