Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[ROG]

A thought ... are you reading internet sites which deal with caravan towing ?

 

[ROG]

I thought it had to be the weight of the trialer plus the weight of the horse wasn't allowed to weight more than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it otherwise it was illegal

For B only (no B+E) licence towing ....
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not be more than 3500 kgs
and..... this is what you are referring to ....
The trailer MAM must not be more than the vehicle kerb weight

 

[Finn]

sorry to be so thick but what does GVW and MAM mean?

Im a woman- I don't know these things lol

 

[ROG]

sorry to be so thick but what does GVW and MAM mean?

Im a woman- I don't know these things lol

They both mean the same thing - the maximum weight they can be when fully loaded

Example ...
Trailer MAM of 2500
Trailer unladen weight of 1000
Max load would be 1500 because 1000+1500=the max of 2500

Car GVW 2000
Car kerb weight 1500
Max load for car would be 500 because 1500+500= max GVW of 2000

 

[Finn]

Aww Ok, Im with ya now lol

so then, what is the max weight my car can tow legally including the weight of the trailer and a 600kgs horse ( she doesn't weight that she weights slightly less but it was an easy round number)

 

[ROG]

Aww Ok, Im with ya now lol

so then, what is the max weight my car can tow legally including the weight of the trailer and a 600kgs horse ( she doesn't weight that she weights slightly less but it was an easy round number)

if your towing capacity is listed as 2800 kgs then it can tow that weight (trailer+load) PROVIDING the MAM of the trailer allows that much

 

[ROG]

Do you have a BE on your licence?

 

[Finn]

I don't have my license on me to check it as I'm at work but I took my test in 1987 if that's any help

 

[ROG]

I don't have my license on me to check it as I'm at work but I took my test in 1987 if that's any help

1987 is before 1997 so you will have B+E

It is very easy for those with a B+E because you find the max towing capacity for the vehicle and the max trailer MAM then use the lower of those two for the maximum which the trailer including its load can be

 

[Finn]

Brill

Thanks ROG.

I really appreciate your advice xxxx

 

[roscipoo]

Hi ROG

I wondered if you might be able to help me out please?

I have a 5 door Toyota Rav 4 and am hoping to buy a cheval liberte trailer. I'm trying to work out whether to get a mare and foal trailer or double. I think the below figures are correct!!

B licence
GVW 1930 kg
KW 1490 kg
GTW 1500 kg
MAM 1600 kg
Unladen trailer 765 kg

As my GTW is 1500 kg and my horse weight 650 kg am I right in thinking that I'm ok as long as my trailer weighs less than 850 kg? Is this still safe when your aiming for alight trailer to make it legal?

Many thanks in advance

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

I wondered if you might be able to help me out please?

I have a 5 door Toyota Rav 4 and am hoping to buy a cheval liberte trailer. I'm trying to work out whether to get a mare and foal trailer or double. I think the below figures are correct!!

B licence
GVW 1930 kg
KW 1490 kg
TOWING CAPACITY 1500 kg
The GTW would be 3430 kg (1930+1500=3430)
MAM 1600 kg
Unladen trailer 765 kg

As my TOWING CAPACITY is 1500 kg and my horse weight 650 kg am I right in thinking that I'm ok as long as my trailer weighs less than 850 kg? Is this still safe when your aiming for alight trailer to make it legal?

Many thanks in advance

The extra rules for B licence towing are ....
The vehicle GVW 1930 added to the trailer MAM 1600 must not be more than 3500 but in this case it is 3530 so illegal by 30 kg
The trailer MAM must not be more than vehicle kerb weight 1490 but in this case it is by 1010 kg so illegal
The second rule is currently under legal review after the EU changes in jan this year so it might be scrapped

Your trailer would need to be down plated to a maximum of 1490 to be legal for B licence towing

If it was a MAM of 1490 then that would leave 725 for the load/horse

 

[SpottedCat]

Question - anyone know how I would find out the maximum towing capacity of a grey import vehicle?

The info I have so far for the tow vehicle is:

1790 kerb weight
2260 gross weight

The info for the trailer (assuming an ifor 506):
2600 gross weight
920 unladen weight

What more do I need to know to see if the setup would be legal (assuming a B+E licence)?

Thanks!

 

[ROG]

Question - anyone know how I would find out the maximum towing capacity of a grey import vehicle?

The info I have so far for the tow vehicle is:

1790 kerb weight
2260 gross weight

The info for the trailer (assuming an ifor 506):
2600 gross weight
920 unladen weight

What more do I need to know to see if the setup would be legal (assuming a B+E licence)?

Thanks!

Is there a plate somewhere on the vehicle stating the GTW - it could also be on the paperwork ??

My guess is that the GTW would be somewhere between 4000 and 5000 kgs so finding a figure near those will be it

What vehicle is it ? - please give as much info as possible please

 

[SpottedCat]

Ah - I don't have any paperwork or indeed a specific vehicle - I'm on a fact-finding mission for a specific purpose!

I'm looking at a 2.5L diesel Mazda Bongo Friendee, probably somewhere between 1998-2005 (it obviously won't be any newer than a 2005 one since the factory burnt down and all the tooling was destroyed!).

 

[SpottedCat]

Ok, so I've been told that GTW isn't something which is on the vehicle itself so it looks like I'm not going to be able to find this out.

People on the vehicle specific forum reckon a 2.5lTD won't be a big enough engine anyway to tow a trailer/horse.

 

[ROG]

Ok, so I've been told that GTW isn't something which is on the vehicle itself so it looks like I'm not going to be able to find this out.

People on the vehicle specific forum reckon a 2.5lTD won't be a big enough engine anyway to tow a trailer/horse.

http://www.bongoforum.co.uk/forum/Blah.pl?m-1344877722/
Does that help?

As a general rule, the towing capacity of most vehicles is roughly equal to the kerb weight of the vehicle - that is not an exact science but its a good guide

 

[Charem]

Good morning ROG, please could you take a look at the set up below and tell me 1. if its legal and 2. if so what weight have I got left to play with in the trailer?

Hope these figures are the right ones. Car is a Hyundai Tucson 04 plate and trailer an Ifor 505.

1. B+E
2. 1517kg
3. 2140kg
4. 1600kg
5. 2340kg
6. 905kg

Thank you

 

[SpottedCat]

So essentially I'd be cutting it fine with one horse and it would be a no go with two? I'd read that thread but I don't really know what I'm looking for hence the question!

 

[SpottedCat]

It seems the safe towing limit is 1650 which means it probably isn't the answer for us.

 

[ROG]

It seems the safe towing limit is 1650 which means it probably isn't the answer for us.

Lightweight horse trailer = 675 to 770 kgs unladen
Horse 550 kgs
Total weight = 1320 kgs

If towing on B licence and not B+E then the trailer might need down plating to fit in with the B licence towing rules which may be difficult to do with a GVW of 2260 as it only leaves 1240 for the trailer MAM using the 770 but 675+550=1225 so that is possible
If you have B+E then no worries on the trailer MAM as long as it will cover the weight of the empty trailer + load

 

[ROG]

Good morning ROG, please could you take a look at the set up below and tell me 1. if its legal and 2. if so what weight have I got left to play with in the trailer?

Hope these figures are the right ones. Car is a Hyundai Tucson 04 plate and trailer an Ifor 505.

1. B+E
2. 1517kg
3. 2140kg
4. 1600kg
5. 2340kg
6. 905kg

Thank you

You can load a max of 695 kgs into that trailer (1600-905=695) and be legal/within manufacturers vehicle limitations

 

[SpottedCat]

Thanks ROG. I'd do my B+E. horse weighs bang on 500kg as I've had her on a weigh bridge.

I'd definitely only be able to tow one though, which would be a real downside for me as I like going places with people!

More thinking to be done...

 

[SpottedCat]

Ok, so the 1650 seems to be the figure from the 85% rule - where do you stand on that ROG?

 

[ROG]

Ok, so the 1650 seems to be the figure from the 85% rule - where do you stand on that ROG?

The 85% advice, not rule, is only for first time caravanners and does not apply to any other type of trailer

Some modern 4x4xs are designed to tow well over their GVW let alone their kerb weight - some have a safe towing limit of 3500 with a kerb weight of 2200 and a GVW of 2700
It would be a bit pointless having a safe towing limit of 3500 and trailers with MAMs of 3500 if the 85% advice was meant to be followed for those that tow things !!

 

[SpottedCat]

Yes, sorry, misuse of the word rule there! You got the idea anyway. I guess I need to speak to some dealerships to get the info I need and probably to get some sensible advice about whether its a good setup or not.

 

[SpottedCat]

Not implying that advice here is t sensible BTW but there are two wildly opposing viewpoints on the specialist site!

 

[ROG]

Not implying that advice here is t sensible BTW but there are two wildly opposing viewpoints on the specialist site!

I am on loads of forums which deal with towing including the caravan talk one and all of them agree with me so which so called specialist site does someone not agree ?

Logic dictates that if the 85% was to be used for all trailers on safety grounds then there would be no point of any vehicle having a towing limit over that amount and it would also be written into law

 

[JenG]

I have been trying to work out the weights for myself but I give up its too confusing for me. I'm looking at buying a nissan x trail aventura 2.2 05 plate, would want to tow one horse of 500kg in an hb506 trailer which I believe unladen weight is 920kg? Would this set up be legal for a b licence holder? Would eventually be taking the test but I have someone available to give me some lessons so I could do short journeys by myself before taking the test. Your help would be much appreciated, thankyou in advance

 

[ROG]

I have been trying to work out the weights for myself but I give up its too confusing for me. I'm looking at buying a nissan x trail aventura 2.2 05 plate, would want to tow one horse of 500kg in an hb506 trailer which I believe unladen weight is 920kg? Would this set up be legal for a b licence holder? Would eventually be taking the test but I have someone available to give me some lessons so I could do short journeys by myself before taking the test. Your help would be much appreciated, thankyou in advance

IF THIS IS YOUR VEHICLE ....
GVW 2050
Kerb 1525
Towing capacity 2000

If it is your vehicle then the maximum trailer plated MAM for B licence towing will be 1450 kgs

Your current trailer is 920 empty and probably plated at over 2000 so it will need down plating by contacting Ifor Williams and reduced to 1450 which will then leave 530 kgs for the load/horse

530 with a 500 horse does not leave much for error or any other bits in the trailer .... its a close call

Your alternative to down plating is this .... which will allow a load of 1080 kgs for the trailer.....
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner