Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Helen@muddyhooves]

Brilliant ROG, thanks heaps for that..

 

[wolvesboy]

Hi

this is all new to me so not sure if I'm putting in all the right info but any help would be appreciated as it all seems a bit too confusing!!

My licence is pre-97 and appears to be B&BE. I have a Honda CRV with a max braked towing weight of 1500kg (this is the problem - the dealers told me it was 2000kg!). An ifor williams 506 which has an unladed weight of 920kg and a gross weight of 2600kg. Only plan on using it for one horse around 450/500 with tack and evrything else- a) is that all legally OK and b) would a higher max braked towing weight of the car make a difference as the car is likley to be changed before the horse!

 

[ROG]

Hi

this is all new to me so not sure if I'm putting in all the right info but any help would be appreciated as it all seems a bit too confusing!!

My licence is pre-97 and appears to be B&BE. I have a Honda CRV with a max braked towing weight of 1500kg (this is the problem - the dealers told me it was 2000kg!). An ifor williams 506 which has an unladed weight of 920kg and a gross weight of 2600kg. Only plan on using it for one horse around 450/500 with tack and evrything else- a) is that all legally OK and b) would a higher max braked towing weight of the car make a difference as the car is likley to be changed before the horse!

920+500=1420 which leaves 80 to spare with a 1500 limit

The higher the towing capacity, the easier it will cope

 

[zidder]

Hi,
could you help, need to know how much weight I can put on the trailer

1 = B+E
2 = 2085
3 = 3210
4 = 2600
5 = 3000
6 = 700

Vehicle Nissan Navara

Thanks Gary

 

[ROG]

Hi,
could you help, need to know how much weight I can put on the trailer

1 = B+E
2 = 2085
3 = 3210
4 = 2600
5 = 3000
6 = 700

Vehicle Nissan Navara

Thanks Gary

2600-700=1900
trailer can be loaded with 1900 kgs

 

[zidder]

2600-700=1900
trailer can be loaded with 1900 kgs

Thank you ROG, is this relevant, I had the car and trailer weighed, vehicle fully fuelled trailer empty 3200kg

 

[ROG]

Thank you ROG, is this relevant, I had the car and trailer weighed, vehicle fully fuelled trailer empty 3200kg

Not relevant

The 3210 GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded

The 3000 MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded

The 2600 towing capacity should not be exceeded

The GTW of the vehicle must not be exceeded - the GTW is usually the 3210 GVW added to the 2600 towing capacity = 5810

The weight plate somewhere on the vehicle should state 3210 above 5810 followed by the two axle weight maximimums

 

[zidder]

Not relevant

The 3210 GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded

The 3000 MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded

The 2600 towing capacity should not be exceeded

The GTW of the vehicle must not be exceeded - the GTW is usually the 3210 GVW added to the 2600 towing capacity = 5810

The weight plate somewhere on the vehicle should state 3210 above 5810 followed by the two axle weight maximimums

Thank you very much, great help

 

[Capriole]

ROG, I just saw a trade advert for X brand of trailer (wont copy the ad in full as don't want to advertise for them), and the details say:

Can be towed behind a 3.5T horsebox (or car), by anyone, without the need for a towing license. Includes, (blah blah).


What's the legality of towing a laden trailer (it's a heavier type) behind a laden 3.5t horsebox? Interested to know how that works and what the requirements are.


And the bit where it says the trailer can be towed by anyone without the need for a towing license? That's not right is it?

 

[Dizzydancer]

Can anyone recommend places in staffordshire (stoke on Trent area pref) who does b e training.
Thanks

 

[ROG]

ROG, I just saw a trade advert for X brand of trailer (wont copy the ad in full as don't want to advertise for them), and the details say:

Can be towed behind a 3.5T horsebox (or car), by anyone, without the need for a towing license. Includes, (blah blah).


What's the legality of towing a laden trailer (it's a heavier type) behind a laden 3.5t horsebox? Interested to know how that works and what the requirements are.


And the bit where it says the trailer can be towed by anyone without the need for a towing license? That's not right is it?

If the trailer is no more than 750 kgs plated MAM then they are correct

If a B licence holder is driving a vehicle where the GVW is 3.5 tonnes then the max trailer plated MAM is 750 kgs
For any trailer with a higher MAM then B+E is required

The 3.5 tonner must have a towing capacity capable of towing the actual weight of the trailer and its load at the time of towing

 

[ROG]

Can anyone recommend places in staffordshire (stoke on Trent area pref) who does b e training.
Thanks

I would look in the first instance at LGV training schools as doing B+E training is childs play to their instructors

 

[Capriole]

If the trailer is no more than 750 kgs plated MAM then they are correct

I don't know those details but it's one of those bigger brands of trailers with the living in them, this is fitted with fridge, cooker, toilet, heating, seating/double bed and cameras.

 

[Dizzydancer]

Great thanks rog will look around.

 

[Capriole]

I don't know those details but it's one of those bigger brands of trailers with the living in them, this is fitted with fridge, cooker, toilet, heating, seating/double bed and cameras.

I might get one of these models then, this sounds great.

 

[ROG]

I have seen 3.5 tonners towing 750 kg MTPLM caravans legally on a B licence

I have lso seen what looks like 3.5s, but could be 6 tonners, towing a twin horse trailer which would either require a B+E or C1+E licence to drive

If a 3.5 GVW has a GTW of 5500 then it can tow 2000 on a B+E licence - the max towing capacity is usually the GTW minus the GVW 5500-3500=2000
The MAM of the trailer could be well over 2000 but as long as the actual weight of trailer + load is kept to no more than 2000 then its legal

 

[MardyMare]

hi - sorry if a stupid question - I have done a brief search and realised that I may need to read 134 pages to find my answer. My question is about the load not the actual towing capacity. We have been told and always have put heavier horse on the right however I am now travelling a combination where the smaller horse is having problems being on the left and stumbling and falling. Put her back on right and she is fine. Bigger horse has no problem which side she travels. What is the rule regarding this? Thanks for any help.

 

[ROG]

hi - sorry if a stupid question - I have done a brief search and realised that I may need to read 134 pages to find my answer. My question is about the load not the actual towing capacity. We have been told and always have put heavier horse on the right however I am now travelling a combination where the smaller horse is having problems being on the left and stumbling and falling. Put her back on right and she is fine. Bigger horse has no problem which side she travels. What is the rule regarding this? Thanks for any help.

As far as I know there are no rules for this but as the driver you are expected to ensure the load is stable and safe at all times so if what you are doing complies to those requirements then carry on

 

[MardyMare]

As far as I know there are no rules for this but as the driver you are expected to ensure the load is stable and safe at all times so if what you are doing complies to those requirements then carry on

Thank you. I am going to weigh them properly - one is 15.2 and one 16.2 but the taller one is quite lean and the smaller one carrying a bit of weight so there may not be a lot in it. Just from the back you would notice the taller horse more to be on the 'wrong side' so to speak.

 

[Aleka81]

That would be a Freelander 1 and others have said that some can be a little under powered when towing and can have other issues but if yours is ok then fine as you probably have a good one

Now to your question ...
There are a few examples of trailers that can be used with this vehicle for B licence towing in post number 999 of this thread but I will use one example

Ifor HB401 or the new version of that is 1600 MAM and 770 kgs unladen

Contact Ifor Williams to arrange to have it down plated from 1600 to 1450

When down plated to 1450 it will leave 680 kgs for the load/horse

1450 + 2040 = 3490 so under the 3500 B licence towing limit
Although you have not listed the kerb weight I believe 1450 is going to be under the kerb weight so that is ok

Hi Rog
I went and did my trailer test so I now have B+E on my license what does this change for towing with the freelander quoted before. If it changes anything at all... Thank you

 

[ROG]

Hi Rog
I went and did my trailer test so I now have B+E on my license what does this change for towing with the freelander quoted before. If it changes anything at all... Thank you

Now you have B+E you need to find the MAM of the trailer and the towing capacity for the vehicle then use the lower of those two as the maximum for the trailer when loaded

 

[km-j]

Wonder why you can help with my set up!
1 - B&E
2 - 1640kg
3 - 2080kg
4 - is this braked / unbraked weight
5 - 2600kg
6 - 920kg

What does this leave me in terms of weight of horse/s if legal
Thanks
Kelly

 

[ROG]

Wonder why you can help with my set up!
1 - B&E
2 - 1640kg
3 - 2080kg
4 - is this braked / unbraked weight
5 - 2600kg
6 - 920kg

What does this leave me in terms of weight of horse/s if legal
Thanks
Kelly

4 = braked weight (unbraked trailer can only be 750 kgs plated MAM maximum)

As I do not have braked weight this is how to work out max load/horse for trailer ...

Look at max braked weight/towing capacity of vehicle (????) and max trailer MAM (2600) then use the lower of those two figures

Deduct 920 from the lower figure above and that will leave you with the max load/horse for the trailer
This will be legal for a B+E


INFO ONLY .....
For B only towing then the trailer would need to be down plated by contacting the manufacturer from 2600 to a max of 1420 which would then leave 500 for the load/horse 1420-920=500

 

[km-j]

4 = braked weight (unbraked trailer can only be 750 kgs plated MAM maximum)

As I do not have braked weight this is how to work out max load/horse for trailer ...

Look at max braked weight/towing capacity of vehicle (????) and max trailer MAM (2600) then use the lower of those two figures

Deduct 920 from the lower figure above and that will leave you with the max load/horse for the trailer
This will be legal for a B+E


INFO ONLY .....
For B only towing then the trailer would need to be down plated by contacting the manufacturer from 2600 to a max of 1420 which would then leave 500 for the load/horse 1420-920=500

Hi
Slightly confused. The GTW of vehicle is 1800. So If I deduct 920 from the 1800, leaves me with 880, is this the max load for the horse and tack etc
What would this be if I used a smaller trailer 401/403 (unladen weight: 767) and (MAM plated weight: 1600)?

B Only : If I had the singler trailer (401/403), using the same car would I still need to downplated and how much would that leave for the load/horse?

Thanks

Kelly

 

[ROG]

Hi
Slightly confused. The GTW of vehicle is 1800. So If I deduct 920 from the 1800, leaves me with 880, is this the max load for the horse and tack etc
What would this be if I used a smaller trailer 401/403 (unladen weight: 767) and (MAM plated weight: 1600)?

B Only : If I had the singler trailer (401/403), using the same car would I still need to downplated and how much would that leave for the load/horse?

Thanks

Kelly

GTW would be 3880 which is GVW 2080 plus towing capacity 1800

B+E
As 1800 is lower than 2600 then it is 1800 we go by
1800 minus 920 = 880 for the horse/load which can be put in the trailer

B
I think those are 770 unladen/empty so down plating from their original 1600 to say 1400 would leave 630 for the horse/load

 

[km-j]

Can anyone recommend places in staffordshire (stoke on Trent area pref) who does b e training.
Thanks

Hi, There is a place in Hixon, Weston Road, Stafford that is doing B&E lesson and test, really nice people and very reasonably priced. I will be taking my test soon so lets cross fingers!
Thanks

 

[km-j]

GTW would be 3880 which is GVW 2080 plus towing capacity 1800

B+E
As 1800 is lower than 2600 then it is 1800 we go by
1800 minus 920 = 880 for the horse/load which can be put in the trailer

B
I think those are 770 unladen/empty so down plating from their original 1600 to say 1400 would leave 630 for the horse/load

Thanks for that, really helpful.......so both are legal, its just the matter of whether you want a singler trailer with weight of 630 (B Licence) or a double trailer with 880 (B&E Licence).
Kelly

 

[ROG]

Thanks for that, really helpful.......so both are legal, its just the matter of whether you want a singler trailer with weight of 630 (B Licence) or a double trailer with 880 (B&E Licence).
Kelly

The single trailer at 1600 could be loaded with 830 if the driver had B+E

 

[Oriel]

Hi, can you help with the following please? Does my son need to take an extra test to trail the following?

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE..... B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle..... 2100
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle..... 3210
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle.... 2.6 tonnes
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres...... 1472
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "..... 1203

Thank you

 

[ROG]

Hi, can you help with the following please? Does my son need to take an extra test to trail the following?

1 - What licence they hold - B or BE..... B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle..... 2100
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle..... 3210
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle.... 2.6 tonnes
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres...... 1472
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "..... 1203

Thank you

With a GVW of 3210 the maximum trailer he can use is one with a plated MAM of no more than 750 kgs

He can tow it under supervision as a B+E learner

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner