Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[CarlyBiscuit]

Hi,
We've just bought a Ssangyong Rexton 2.7l manual 56 plate. I plan on buying a HB403 single trailer...
I'm a bit confused about all the facts and figures but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to tow on a B licence, but please could you confirm for me?

So I think...
Kerb weight of car: 1864
Towing capacity: 3500
Trailer: 1600 MAM
I think that's right...

So would I be able to tow in the meantime with my mum in the car who passed her test pre 97? As long as I have L plates?

Thank you!

 

[ROG]

Hi,
We've just bought a Ssangyong Rexton 2.7l manual 56 plate. I plan on buying a HB403 single trailer...
I'm a bit confused about all the facts and figures but I'm pretty sure I won't be able to tow on a B licence, but please could you confirm for me?

So I think...
Kerb weight of car: 1864
Towing capacity: 3500
Trailer: 1600 MAM
I think that's right...

So would I be able to tow in the meantime with my mum in the car who passed her test pre 97? As long as I have L plates?

Thank you!

YES with MUM in car ....
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

As for the weights ..... I need the GVW of the vehicle which can be found on a weight plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame (top figure of the four on the plate) or listed as maximum permissible mass on the V5 keepers document

The total of the GVW (?) added to the trailer MAM (1600) must not total more than 3500 for B towing - the trailer MAM can be reduced by down plating but that is only practical to a point - down plating trailer to say 1100 when it weighs 800 empty would only leave 300 for the trailer load !

 

[murphysmummy]

Hi ROG

Just wondering if you can help me. I'm intending to take my B+E test shortly but in the meantime have the opportunity to get a HB505 for a bargain but I would need to pick it up from a fair way away. Could you let me know if I can tow it home empty using a '52 plate Toyota Hilux double cab?

Many thanks

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG

Just wondering if you can help me. I'm intending to take my B+E test shortly but in the meantime have the opportunity to get a HB505 for a bargain but I would need to pick it up from a fair way away. Could you let me know if I can tow it home empty using a '52 plate Toyota Hilux double cab?

Many thanks

Licences go on the plated weights not the actual weights so if the GVW (MAM) of the vehicle added to the MAM of the trailer total more than 3500 then you cannot legally tow it on a B licence

You can tow it under your B+E provisional/learner category so can you get someone with perhaps a pre 1997 licence to go with you ?
see post 2762 above

 

[murphysmummy]

Thanks ROG. The GVW is 2715 and the MAM of the 505 is 900 so I'm over by 115kgs! Never mind- patience is a virtue and hopefully I'll find a bargain once I've passed the test.
Haven't got anyone pre-1997 to come with me I'm afraid but it's a great idea.

Thanks again.

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. The GVW is 2715 and the MAM of the 505 is 900 so I'm over by 115kgs! Never mind- patience is a virtue and hopefully I'll find a bargain once I've passed the test.
Haven't got anyone pre-1997 to come with me I'm afraid but it's a great idea.

Thanks again.

I think the MAM of the 505 is 2340 http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1063 so a total MAM of 5055 = well over the 3500 limit

 

[Chloeap]

4 x 437 = 1748 MAM

1748 + 2105 = 3853 = over the B towing limit of 3500

Ahh that makes more sense!
Think I will get the trailer as it is a bargain, practice towing as I have a few people who are able to sit with me then do my test once ready!
Thank you very much for your help, it's made this all a bit clearer

 

[ROG]

Ahh that makes more sense!
Think I will get the trailer as it is a bargain, practice towing as I have a few people who are able to sit with me then do my test once ready!
Thank you very much for your help, it's made this all a bit clearer

If near Leicester I could help for free + expenses

 

[Chloeap]

Oh brilliant. I am 30 mins from Leicester! I think I am a little way off from doing my test so will have a practice with Dad as he taught me to drive and has towed a lot. I may well be in contact in a couple of months and take you up on that offer. Thank you

 

[ROG]

Oh brilliant. I am 30 mins from Leicester! I think I am a little way off from doing my test so will have a practice with Dad as he taught me to drive and has towed a lot. I may well be in contact in a couple of months and take you up on that offer. Thank you

Make a note of my spare email address - advanced.driving@live.co.uk

I am also an ex B+E and LGV instructor

 

[MrsMakeup]

Can I tow a Bateson Deauville with 2 horse, 15.2 and 16hh with a td4 Freelander,,please?

 

[ROG]

Can I tow a Bateson Deauville with 2 horse, 15.2 and 16hh with a td4 Freelander,,please?

What licence B or B+E ?

What are the weights such as
Freelander GVW + towing capacity
Trailer empty + MAM
Horses
????

 

[petsywetsy]

My trailer doesn't have a label giving weights etc. Its a lightweight Indespension Regent and I tow with a 2.00 4x4 diesel 170bhp Yeti. One 14.2 pony only.

Does the lack of the label matter? I am pretty sure that we are legal weightwise.

 

[ROG]

My trailer doesn't have a label giving weights etc. Its a lightweight Indespension Regent and I tow with a 2.00 4x4 diesel 170bhp Yeti. One 14.2 pony only.

Does the lack of the label matter? I am pretty sure that we are legal weightwise.

the total of the tyre load ratings will be the trailer MAM where there is no plate

What is the towing capacity of the yeti ?
Do you know roughly what the trailer weighs empty ?
What is the weight of the pony ?

Do you have a B+E licence ?

 

[petsywetsy]

I did research a while ago and weight wise, towing etc. appears fine. I just wondered whether the actual lack of the plate is an offence?

I also do have the correct license - was a bit worried about the missing plate.

Thanks

 

[ROG]

I did research a while ago and weight wise, towing etc. appears fine. I just wondered whether the actual lack of the plate is an offence?

I also do have the correct license - was a bit worried about the missing plate.

Thanks

Not a problem as many trailers are without plates and cannot be replaced if the manufacturer is no longer trading so the legal default of using the total of the tyre load ratings is used as the trailer MAM

I asked about licencing as many think they are legal on a B licence using actual weights instead of MAM weights

 

[acorn92x]

Could I tow an Ifor Williams HB403 (Unladen weight is 767kg) with a 2L Skoda Yeti (Auto with a kerb weight of 1530kg) with a 440kg pony on board on a B licence please? Am thinking of upgrading my car to this set up next year. Thank you!

 

[ROG]

Could I tow an Ifor Williams HB403 (Unladen weight is 767kg) with a 2L Skoda Yeti (Auto with a kerb weight of 1530kg) with a 440kg pony on board on a B licence please? Am thinking of upgrading my car to this set up next year. Thank you!

What we need is the GVW/MAM weights as licences use those and not actual weights such as the ones you have supplied

Unless already down plated the 403 is 1600 MAM and the Yeti is roughly between 2000 and 2150 GVW depending on exact model in this list = http://carleasingmadesimple.com/data/skoda/yeti/gross-vehicle-weight/

Assuming the GVW is 2000 along with a MAM of 1600 = 3600 which is over the 3500 B licence tow limit

Down plating the trailer from 1600 to 1300 via contact with IW would leave a max load for the trailer of 533kg so plenty for a 440 pony
At 1300 MAM you could have a YETI at 2200 GVW

 

[acorn92x]

Thanks ROG, that's great, very pleased to hear that this combo would be possible! The Yeti I am looking at has a MAM of 2000kg (Just had a Google!) so would obviously consider down plating as this would be cheaper than doing my B+E. I only have one pony so towing another is not an issue and I would rather just have the single trailer. Thank you

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG, that's great, very pleased to hear that this combo would be possible! The Yeti I am looking at has a MAM of 2000kg (Just had a Google!) so would obviously consider down plating as this would be cheaper than doing my B+E. I only have one pony so towing another is not an issue. Thank you

IW charge about £50 for down plating

You call IW
You remove plate
You send plate + money to IW
IW send you new plate
You fit new plate

Needs drill + pop rivets/gun

 

[acorn92x]

IW charge about £50 for down plating

You call IW
You remove plate
You send plate + money to IW
IW send you new plate
You fit new plate

Needs drill + pop rivets/gun

You're a star - thank you!

 

[Archie07]

What are my choice of small 4x4's if I was looking to tow a 575kg pony in a single trailer (say a HB401/ HB403) on a B licence?

What would be an economical car that would do the job based on the above? Would want the smallest 4x4 possible. Any recommendations please?

 

[ROG]

What are my choice of small 4x4's if I was looking to tow a 575kg pony in a single trailer (say a HB401/ HB403) on a B licence?

What would be an economical car that would do the job based on the above? Would want the smallest 4x4 possible. Any recommendations please?

The only one recommendation I know of is the Skoda Octavia 4x4 with a GVW of 1998 and a 2000 towing capacity
With that vehicle and down plating the trailer from 1600 to 1500 would leave a max trailer load of 720 as it weighs 780 empty

 

[Archie07]

Thanks for the above ROG!

Another question out of interest could you tow a HB401/HB403 single trailer with a Ford Transit 85T280 S FWD on a B licence (again pony around 550kgs)...

 

[ROG]

Thanks for the above ROG!

Another question out of interest could you tow a HB401/HB403 single trailer with a Ford Transit 85T280 S FWD on a B licence (again pony around 550kgs)...

What is the GVW and towing capacity of the transit ?

 

[Archie07]

What is the GVW and towing capacity of the transit ?

From what I can find I think these figures are correct:

GVW - 2800kg
Towing Capacity - 3500kg
Pony - 550kg
Trailer - HB403
B Licence

Thanks so much!

 

[ROG]

From what I can find I think these figures are correct:

GVW - 2800kg
Towing Capacity - 3500kg
Pony - 550kg
Trailer - HB403
B Licence

Thanks so much!

The max you can tow on a B licence where the vehicle has a GVW of 2800 is a trailer with a max plated MAM of 750 - the 401/3 weighs more than that empty !

 

[Archie07]

What is the GVW and towing capacity of the transit ?

The max you can tow on a B licence where the vehicle has a GVW of 2800 is a trailer with a max plated MAM of 750 - the 401/3 weighs more than that empty !

So even if the van was empty (can't find or workout what unladen weight is) it's still not possible? Dam.

Would it be possible with a B+E licence?

 

[ROG]

So even if the van was empty (can't find or workout what unladen weight is) it's still not possible? Dam.

Would it be possible with a B+E licence?

B+E possible but would need to know the towing capacity allowed which should be in handbook or on V5 doc

Licencing for all B and C categories goes on plated weights not actual weights until the number of seats gets to 10 then it comes into PCV licencing

 

[swright]

Hi Rog,

As the resident towing law expert, can you check I've got this right?

I'm looking to buy an estate car capable of towing an ifor 401 single horse trailer.

Both my OH and me like the Audi A4 Avant 2.0 tdi SE estate. Can we both legally tow on a B licence with the below weights?

Audi GVW- 2100kgs
Audi unladen - 1480kgs
Towing capacity - 1600kgs
Giving a legal trailer MAM of 1400kgs?? If downplated.

The 401's only weight about 770kgs empty so leaves me 630kgs for my 15.1 horse (his last trip to horsey weightwatchers weighbridge showed him at a healthy 450kgs)

is that correct and all legal on my B licence?

Hope I've managed to get my head around it!

Thanks!