Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

[Echo24]

1 B licence
2 Unladen 1804kg
3 GVW 2485kg
4 Unbraked 750kg Braked 2000kg
5 MAM 1600kg
6 Unladen weight 767kg

I suspect it is illegal but would this be legal on a B+E licence? Thanks!

 

[ROG]

1 B licence
2 Unladen 1804kg
3 GVW 2485kg
4 Unbraked 750kg Braked 2000kg
5 MAM 1600kg
6 Unladen weight 767kg

I suspect it is illegal but would this be legal on a B+E licence? Thanks!

You are correct - B+E needed

Max trailer MAM with that vehicle on a B licence is 1015 kg and if you did down plate it to 1015 that would only leave a max trailer load of 248 kg = ok maybe for a shetland pony

you can use that set up under B+E learner rules

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

 

[Echo24]

Thanks ROG! Thought so. Mum and dad live too far away so I will look into doing a towing test as I'll be out on my own. Thanks again!

 

[abbijay]

Hi ROG,
I'm getting a new company car soon and the most capable tow vehicle on there is a Ford Kuga 2.0 diesel with a towing limit of 1900kgs. My trailer weighs 1100kg (Richardson Supreme Ultra but I've taken the partition out - I don't know if that weight is with or without the partition!) and my horse weigh bridged last year at 770kg although he has probably put a little weight on since then (he was very poorly at the time) so I'm assuming 800kg.
Would it be legal to tow in this combination or had I better work on persuading the hubby to buy me a different towing vehicle?
I have my B+E already!
Thanks.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG,
I'm getting a new company car soon and the most capable tow vehicle on there is a Ford Kuga 2.0 diesel with a towing limit of 1900kgs. My trailer weighs 1100kg (Richardson Supreme Ultra but I've taken the partition out - I don't know if that weight is with or without the partition!) and my horse weigh bridged last year at 770kg although he has probably put a little weight on since then (he was very poorly at the time) so I'm assuming 800kg.
Would it be legal to tow in this combination?
I have my B+E already!
Thanks.

Gonna be tight weight wise so the only real way to know is to load it with horse and take directly to weighbridge which you can legally do even if over as long as you go directly to it and back to the place you loaded the trailer

 

[abbijay]

Gonna be tight weight wise so the only real way to know is to load it with horse and take directly to weighbridge which you can legally do even if over as long as you go directly to it and back to the place you loaded the trailer

Thanks ROG!

 

[ROG]

Bank holiday bump

 

[Cobbychic]

What do the numbers on the v plate mean? Confused

 

[Cobbychic]

would need -
1 - B - passed test in 99
2 - Not sure? Where is this info as not on log book
3 - Mam of car 2050
4 - GTW 4050
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer 2000
6 - 895

 

[Cobbychic]

Spoken to Equitrek and they said even if I down rated my trailer I still wouldn't be legal due to the 50% kerb rate of vehicle. Is this true?

 

[ROG]

What do the numbers on the v plate mean? Confused

The four numbers are always in this order
top = GVW = the max the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
second from top = GTW = the max the vehicle and trailer can be when weighed together
third from top = front axle max weight
bottom = rear axle max weight

would need -
1 - B - passed test in 99
2 - Not sure? Where is this info as not on log book
3 - Mam of car 2050
4 - GTW 4050
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer 2000
6 - 895

Do not worry about number 2 as the law for that has been revoked/scrapped

GVW = 2050 = top figure on plate
MAM of trailer 2000
TOTAL MAM = 4050 so over the B towing 3500 limit

SOLUTION = contact trailer manufacturer and down plate trailer from 2000 to 1450 BUT that will only leave a max of 555 which can be loaded into the trailer (1450-895=555)

 

[ROG]

Spoken to Equitrek and they said even if I down rated my trailer I still wouldn't be legal due to the 50% kerb rate of vehicle. Is this true?

NO = law revoked on 19/01/2013 and there was never a 50% rule before that

There is a 50% law which states that an UNBRAKED trailer cannot be more than half of kerb/unladen/empty weight of vehicle
All trailers over 750 kg MAM must be braked by law

 

[Cobbychic]

I'm just wondering if I should take trailer test??? Has anyone taken just the test straight off the bat?

 

[ROG]

I'm just wondering if I should take trailer test??? Has anyone taken just the test straight off the bat?

If you can drive in the way that the DVSA want you to drive as well as uncouple/up and reverse the DVSA way along with having a vehicle and trailer which conforms to DVSA test standards ........ then YES

Post number 2000 has the full info

 

[Clannad48]

Hi ROG, I think I already know the answer for this but here goes anyway

Daughter driving for 6 years so just a B licence

Car - Kia Sorento Automatic with a GVW of 2600kg
Trailer Ifor Williams HB505 with an unladen weight of 905kg
Horse - 600kg max

Opinions please

I currently do the towing with a pre 1997 licence and want her to do her test but the cost of it is very high if you include the lessons as well.

 

[ROG]

Hi ROG, I think I already know the answer for this but here goes anyway

Daughter driving for 6 years so just a B licence

Car - Kia Sorento Automatic with a GVW of 2600kg
Trailer Ifor Williams HB505 with an unladen weight of 905kg
Horse - 600kg max

Opinions please

I currently do the towing with a pre 1997 licence and want her to do her test but the cost of it is very high if you include the lessons as well.

505 has a MAM of 2340 so the total MAM = 4950 .... well over the B towing limit of 3500 !

Daughter can drive it with you supervising under her current B+E provisional learner entitlement = I would get her to do that all the time as its great free practice

As I have not posted this lot for a while ............

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving


The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&feature=related - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.htm - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._PCV_BE_manoeuvring_exercise_area_diagram.pdf
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&feature=related - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-driving-test-vehicles

Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

ADD - with B manual and doing BE in auto only gets BE auto not manual

 

[Clannad48]

Thanks for the prompt reply ROG, you have confirmed my figures. My daughter can only drive an automatic anyway (long story) so I need to rethink things as there are a couple of occasions coming up when I will not be available to tow.

 

[ROG]

Thanks for the prompt reply ROG, you have confirmed my figures. My daughter can only drive an automatic anyway (long story) so I need to rethink things as there are a couple of occasions coming up when I will not be available to tow.

Any other driver who can comply with the rules above can supervise such as a 75 year old with no insurance needed if they are not going to be driving

 

[Clannad48]

ROG, yes but finding someone who will accompany my daughter is another matter - she competes at endurance and we are often away all day and travel over 100 miles each way sometimes. I would also not consider her going with someone who wasn't insured to drive as if (God Forbid) she had an injury there would be no way of her getting herself, trailer and/or the horse back The only people who would consider going with her do not have the B+E so I will probably have to sort out her taking her test. She does nag me to get another lorry but just can't afford it.

So the master plan is either a. rob a bank, b. win the lottery, c. sell a kidney or other organ to pay for the trailer test

 

[ROG]

So the master plan is either a. rob a bank, .............. to pay for the trailer test

Not Barclays .... TOO RISKY !!

 

[jenni999]

So, firstly apologies as I suspect this has been asked and answered earlier in the thread. But I need to know quickly.

I hold a B+E, have a Landcruiser SWB which tows 2800kg (I have checked the VIN plate). If I want to tow an Equitrek with a gross weight of 3500kg, am I illegal regardless of whether I only have one horse in it - which would bring me within my gross towing capacity of 2800kg? Equitrek told me I would be illegal even towing empty as I needed to be able to tow 3500kg. Sounds daft but I assume they know the law?

I see lots of people with Freelanders (or new Disco Sport) which has a gross towing capacity of 2000 towing 505's which have a gross weight of 2600kg. Are they illegal even before they start loading up?

Confusion reigns here...... Please help.

 

[ROG]

So, firstly apologies as I suspect this has been asked and answered earlier in the thread. But I need to know quickly.

I hold a B+E, have a Landcruiser SWB which tows 2800kg (I have checked the VIN plate). If I want to tow an Equitrek with a gross weight of 3500kg, am I illegal regardless of whether I only have one horse in it - which would bring me within my gross towing capacity of 2800kg? Equitrek told me I would be illegal even towing empty as I needed to be able to tow 3500kg. Sounds daft but I assume they know the law?

I see lots of people with Freelanders (or new Disco Sport) which has a gross towing capacity of 2000 towing 505's which have a gross weight of 2600kg. Are they illegal even before they start loading up?

Confusion reigns here...... Please help.

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity or GTW listed for the vehicle must be able to accommodate the plated MAM of the trailer or the combined GVW/MAM of the vehicle and trailer

This is 100% legal with a B+E licence -
Vehicle GVW 2700, GTW 5500 and towing capacity 2800 towing a trailer plated at 3500 which weighs 1000 empty with a load in it weighing 1800

 

[jenni999]

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity or GTW listed for the vehicle must be able to accommodate the plated MAM of the trailer or the combined GVW/MAM of the vehicle and trailer

This is 100% legal with a B+E licence -
Vehicle GVW 2700, GTW 5500 and towing capacity 2800 towing a trailer plated at 3500 which weighs 1000 empty with a load in it weighing 1800

Thanks. Bateson trailers said the same, so I trust Equitrek even less now !

 

[Hewkat]

Hi

My facts and figures are as follows:

1. B&E license
2. Unladen vehicle weight - 1770 kg
3. GVW of towing weight - 2245 kg
4. Towing capacity of vehicle - Braked towing weight - 1800 kg
5. MAM of trailer - 2600kg (is this the maximum fully loaded weight?)
6. Unladen trailer weight - 1020kg

Can you tell me if this is legal? So much conflicting advice online!

I will be carrying catering equipment So much less than the weight of a horse.

Also what if the trailer is not plated?

Many thanks

Kat

 

[Hewkat]

Having problems posting so apologies if this posts twice!

My stats are as follows:

1. B&E license
2. Empty weight of vehicle - 1,770 kg
3. Fully laden vehicle weight - 2,245 kg
4. Towing capacity of vehicle - 1,800 kg
5. I haven't bought the trailer yet but it is a Rice Beaufort Double - I think it may be unplated so load rating based on my current tyres would be 2,320 kg
If it is plated then from stats I've got from the Rice website I estimate the MM would be 2,600 kg
6. Unladen trailer weight - 1,020 kg

Would this be legal?

Really struggling to get clear guidance from anywhere so your advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Kat

 

[Kacey88]

Does anyone tow with a Hyundai Santa Fe on a B license? I'm thinking of getting one, and an Ifor Williams 401. Maybe someone could help me finish this:

1. B
2. Empty weight of vehicle - 1,890kg
3. Fully laden vehicle weight - ?
4. Towing capacity of vehicle - 2200kg
5. MAM of trailer - 1600kg (could be downplated?)
6. Unladen trailer weight - 770kg

Could this work? I haven't got the horse yet, but looking at 14.2hh - 15.1hh so should be fine in a single.

 

[ROG]

Does anyone tow with a Hyundai Santa Fe on a B license? I'm thinking of getting one, and an Ifor Williams 401. Maybe someone could help me finish this:

1. B
2. Empty weight of vehicle - 1,890kg
3. Fully laden vehicle weight - ?
4. Towing capacity of vehicle - 2200kg
5. MAM of trailer - 1600kg (could be downplated?)
6. Unladen trailer weight - 770kg

Could this work? I haven't got the horse yet, but looking at 14.2hh - 15.1hh so should be fine in a single.

Number 3 figure for GVW is crucial but I can GUESS roughly what it might be ...... around 2500 kg ????????????

Using that 2500 GVW figure guess the trailer would need down plating from 1600 to 1000 leaving only 230 kg for the trailer load

Solution = need a vehicle with a lower GVW

 

[ROG]

Having problems posting so apologies if this posts twice!

My stats are as follows:

1. B&E license
2. Empty weight of vehicle - 1,770 kg
3. Fully laden vehicle weight - 2,245 kg
4. Towing capacity of vehicle - 1,800 kg
5. I haven't bought the trailer yet but it is a Rice Beaufort Double - I think it may be unplated so load rating based on my current tyres would be 2,320 kg
If it is plated then from stats I've got from the Rice website I estimate the MM would be 2,600 kg
6. Unladen trailer weight - 1,020 kg

Would this be legal?

Really struggling to get clear guidance from anywhere so your advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Kat

Yes it is legal

You can load a max of 780 kg into the trailer (1800-1020=780)

 

[Kacey88]

Number 3 figure for GVW is crucial but I can GUESS roughly what it might be ...... around 2500 kg ????????????

Using that 2500 GVW figure guess the trailer would need down plating from 1600 to 1000 leaving only 230 kg for the trailer load

Solution = need a vehicle with a lower GVW

Thanks ROG back to the drawing board. How do you get the GVW anyway?

 

[ROG]

How do you get the GVW anyway?

Top figure of the four on the weight plate usually hidden under the bonnet or in a door frame OR the max permissible mass figure on the V5 keepers doc