cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Be careful, I'm not sure endurance has been 'done' yet.
Welfare issues with polo?
- Thread starter cptrayes
- Start date
Be careful, I'm not sure endurance has been 'done' yet.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
It has, after the photo of the skinny horse in France.
teabiscuit
Well-Known Member
Mariposa I salute your restraint. *salutes*
zigzag
Well-Known Member
I'm waiting for them to start on show horses, I personally feel its a lot worse than polo or any other sport
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Agree. Polo does nothing for me, but your love for your horses and your pride in their training and care shines through in your posts. You have made a very valuable contribution to this thread.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
You could argue leaving a horse in field doing nothing but swat flies and wear rugs all its life cruel.
amandap
Well-Known Member
That was the vision of horror that sprang into my head when I read that!
I actually can't see why they would want or have to to turn stallions out with mares unless they are breeding.
teabiscuit
Well-Known Member
Argie bashing if you
teabiscuit
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry, my phone keeps posting before I've finished. I give up.
Absolom
New User
Actually these kind of things need some budget to start all this, but without the budget you can't manage all the stuff alone, some people are use some donation stuff to make some money with these welfare's.
amandap
Well-Known Member
I get your drift.
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
Sorry to CPT for this tangent on your Polo thread.
K - I would argue that the 'submission to the bit' is not essential to dressage, 'submission to the aids' - yes. When you boil it down, dressage is training your horse to prance about an arena doing set moves and you are judged on your performance. I don't see a bit as essential and I don't see tradition as a good enough reason to disallow bitless classes. If people choose to ride their horses bitless, does that really matter? Why would training horses to prance around an arena be cringeworthy, I don't 'get' it?
You could easily say that you either have a bit OR nose pressure and that you can't have both. You could keep the bitless classes separate and have strict rules about what is and isn't allowed. Why shouldn't BD run this? Why shouldn't they have levels parallel to the bitted ones to progress up? Why is it such a big deal?
RE light aids - I broke my back as a teenager so have to ride with light hand aids, my back can't 'take' a strong contact and my legs are weak. i only started Dressage with the RDA, so maybe my experience of dressage is unusual, but lightness of aids was very much aimed for.
PS -I wasn't offended, just taken aback that you aren't more open minded on this issue. I'd never thought that you would be so entrenched in your views.
If you're interested in chatting about it, I'd be happy to start another thread so we don't hijack? I am usually fairly open minded, but bitless dressage is something I do feel pretty strongly against, and probably mainly due to the people who have been the proponents of it and their reasoning.
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Sure. It should be an interesting discussion. Maybe in the comp section so the dressage riders spot it?
It should be an interesting discussion. Maybe in the comp section so the dressage riders spot it?
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
Sure.
Sounds good. The arguments I've heard before have been from very NH, bitting-is-cruel types and has been very critical of dressage as a whole, so I'd love some actual reasoned discussion about it
fburton
Well-Known Member
Hats off to both of you, K & F.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread.......I've nothing really to add to it , other than - some years ago I was asked to collect and bring to my yard a high goal polo pony who was in need of some rest and attention. I set off to collect the pony in my old truck with ye olde trailer attached. The address I was to collect him from was in a very wealthy part of the SW of England. I arrive at the place - it was somewhere that looked like a member of the royal family might live, palatial and stunning. I rattled my way down the long sweeping drive, across landscaped lawns, sweeping vistas, towards the stunning stable yard...'wow' I thought 'I bet these horses are going to be amazing....' how wrong I was - a sorrier bunch of sad old knackerd nags I'd never seen before. The people that owned these sad and sorry horses obviously had potfuls of money - the yard itself and the environment these horses lived in was amazing - no expense spared, but the horse themselves looked not too far off of welfare cases. Funny old world......
teapot
Well-Known Member
Interesting tweet from the HPA this morning, wonder if it was off the back of this thread. It says:
"@hpapolo take the welfare of polo ponies very seriously & appreciate being kept in the loop with any concerns you may have. #welfare"
"@hpapolo take the welfare of polo ponies very seriously & appreciate being kept in the loop with any concerns you may have. #welfare"
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
It's a very ugly 'sport' and not one I would want anything to do with
There is no defence for Caslicking. The female genital anatomy is not particularly well designed in mammels. But, dear God - infections, faeces, sucking in air - biggest load of codswallop I've ever heard. Don't stop believin' Mariposa.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
I had a similar thing with a horse that had been round Badminton then turned out to retire on the owner's Cheshire farm. It nearly starved to death. The rider persuaded them to loan it to a college, where it was almost on a sling for a week it was so weak. Yet while it was up there at 4* the owners were always there happily patting away in the winner's area.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Some mares are made with a vulva that sits out much further than the anus, or become that way after foaling. That means that faeces fall directly into the vagina of the mare, causing internal infections that can be life threatening. It is my understanding that is the defence for caslick operations.
I have seen one brood mare that had this done and it looked fully justified to me.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
"Codswallop" to very novice or non-horse people perhaps. Mariposa, you are of course, absolutely correct about why some mares require caslicks.
rara007
Well-Known Member
Where did you get the idea from? I have quite a biased view with my only real caslicks experiences being through the TBA arranged conferences and events and lectures from various top vets but from a quick online search I can't find anything that contraindicates caslicks?
WelshD
Well-Known Member
I do wonder if the people on here talking about poor welfare that they have seen with their own eyes did in fact report it. I believe at least two people have mentioned jobs in the region of 3-5 years, why would they stay if the welfare was that bad and did they report what was going on?
Its all very well throwing up hands and saying 'well nothing will change' but it wont help the horses
FWIW there is a big centre near me whose liveries are mainly polo ponies, they live out most of the time in small herds, look wonderfully healthy and seem perfectly happy when ridden. Its like any sport - a few rotten apples soon makes the rest look bad
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I agree with you completely on the welfare off the pitch.
But I started this thread because I believe, and have read nothing to change my mind, that it is routine in every game to see ponies pulled up again and again in a way which simply would not be tolerated in any other horse sport that I know. It is part and parcel of the fast and exciting game. I can see why devotees accept it, but it isn't something I would be happy to contribute to by paying to watch it.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
I think in this thread it is important to differentiate between dodgy practices behind the scenes which no one would condone and I think possibly happen in all horse sports or is there something inherent in the game and the way it is played that causes particular distress.
My concern is still at lower levels people get in to it with no riding experience and the focus is on winning and playing the game not on riding. While harsher bits, more tack and spurs are not necessarily a problem in the hands of an experienced rider, I do think they are in on a novice.
This is based on visits to Polo yards where not brilliant players were practising so not even with the adrenaline of amatch. And yes some of them were larger men on very small ponies who would have been turned away from riding schools with a 13 stone weight limit.
I don't think in happens as much in other equine sports because they are not as exciting and competitive and/or the slower progression makes them a bit too boring for the type of personality I'm thinking of.
My concern is still at lower levels people get in to it with no riding experience and the focus is on winning and playing the game not on riding. While harsher bits, more tack and spurs are not necessarily a problem in the hands of an experienced rider, I do think they are in on a novice.
This is based on visits to Polo yards where not brilliant players were practising so not even with the adrenaline of amatch. And yes some of them were larger men on very small ponies who would have been turned away from riding schools with a 13 stone weight limit.
I don't think in happens as much in other equine sports because they are not as exciting and competitive and/or the slower progression makes them a bit too boring for the type of personality I'm thinking of.
tabithakat64
Well-Known Member
It's nice to see some more balanced posts finally
I do see a lot of pulling around/yanking/sawing at the reins in all horse sports I watch, all be it show jumping, eventing or dressage that I would deem unacceptable, my main concern is that this is deemed acceptable by the everyday rider and justified by people who should know better as it's in a competitive environment in the heat of the moment.
I agree with Criso that I've seen a few larger, inexperienced riders on mounts I considered to be too small but the horses are super fit and the tack well fitting... It's not something I'd choose though.
I do see a lot of pulling around/yanking/sawing at the reins in all horse sports I watch, all be it show jumping, eventing or dressage that I would deem unacceptable, my main concern is that this is deemed acceptable by the everyday rider and justified by people who should know better as it's in a competitive environment in the heat of the moment.
I agree with Criso that I've seen a few larger, inexperienced riders on mounts I considered to be too small but the horses are super fit and the tack well fitting... It's not something I'd choose though.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
I understand caslicking for prolapse. But to routinely caslick fillies/mares that race/play polo etc to prevent infection/windsucking is wrong if their genitalia is perfectly normal. The vulva is normally self-sealing.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Sorry, should have been more specific. I disagree with caslicking wh en it becomes routine either in the racing or polo industry. Unless the filly/mare windsucks (vaginally) or there is a physical defect and or prolapse then there is no need to caslick.
SO1
Well-Known Member
There was a photo in the evening standard today of polo ponies in an international match. I know it was only a snap shot in time but neither horses looked very comfortable, both had their ears back, one had its head up as far as it could go despite the restraints of a standing martingale, its mouth was open and it looked either in pain or frightened and trying to evade the situation. It was not a happy photo.
Unfortunately whilst the press continue to publish these photos those of us who are not actively involved in the polo scene will only see this side of the game.
I guess a bit like with racing the patrons of polo tend to be rich men who see horses as assets and a means to an end rather than enjoying spending time with the horses or building up a bond. The social standing and competitive element probably appeals to a certain type of people and it is not really an amateur game. You don't see many people at grassroots RC level racing or playing polo, these are mainly sports for rich men where many may see the horses as just a means to an end.
Unfortunately whilst the press continue to publish these photos those of us who are not actively involved in the polo scene will only see this side of the game.
I guess a bit like with racing the patrons of polo tend to be rich men who see horses as assets and a means to an end rather than enjoying spending time with the horses or building up a bond. The social standing and competitive element probably appeals to a certain type of people and it is not really an amateur game. You don't see many people at grassroots RC level racing or playing polo, these are mainly sports for rich men where many may see the horses as just a means to an end.
teapot
Well-Known Member
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/dan...o-the-polo-9624969.html?origin=internalSearch
That image? I was expecting for worse considering your description if I'm honest...
I took this last week at the GC semis (so 22 goal): https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd....365764_520257270775_6012678252619342975_n.jpg and this a few weeks ago at Ambersham (5-8 goal if I remember right) https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net...=bf025514ef7278a72c34d5ba7a4f6ade&oe=544C9F2F The latter is one of my favourite photos I've taken all year to be honest - those ponies had just finished a match!
Don't often see many horse racing photos with the horses' ears forwards...
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