Well this is a can of worms

YasandCrystal

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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/314392.html


Fuller Fillies are now making saddles up to 22 inch seat. I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride.

When your arse sticks out wider than the horses, you know you have issues.

I agree it's quite ridiculous as few horses can take an 18" saddle let alone one bigger than that :eek: Why would a very tall person need a 22" seat? That doesn't make sense to me.
 
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YorksG

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I agree it's quite ridiculous as few horses can take an 18" saddle let alone one bigger than that :eek: Why would a very tall person need a 22" seat? That doesn't make sense to me.

Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.
 

AmyMay

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I think regardless of what your views are about the bigger rider - they're out there, and there is a market for the saddles.

We all expect to sit on a saddle that fits horse and rider - and the bigger rider is no different.

It's a win, win situation.
 

YasandCrystal

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Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.

Every horse I have owned could never have worn an 18" saddle and I have had some big horses; so I judge it on my experience and that of friends saddle sizes.

Unless one is riding like they are sitting in an armchair I disagree that the seat size needs to be increased - surely just a longer flapped saddle? On your theory WFP would need a saddle of 24" inches :eek:
 

FfionWinnie

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It's not a 22" seat in the pic and the model is one of our lovely HHOers by the way.

I have a 17 1/2 inch saddle on a 13.2 because of my long legs not my fat backside and it is a perfect fit for her. Depending on the saddle shape plenty of horses would be able to take more than an 18" saddle and having a saddle which fits both horse and rider distributes weight more evenly anyway.
 

YorksG

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Out of the horses we have owned over the years, only three have not been able to carry an 18" saddle, one being my current Appy, who can only manage a 16 1/2". Sisters ID mare, we were told by a saddler, could have carried a 20" with no problem. The length of the seat, in conjunction with where the stirrup bars are, has a bearing on the riders position, so that would be another variable with the larger seated saddle. At 5' 6", with long thigh bones, I have to compromise my position on my mares saddle. It is the length of the horses back, not it's height which dictates the length of saddle.
 

FfionWinnie

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Every horse I have owned could never have worn an 18" saddle and I have had some big horses; so I judge it on my experience and that of friends saddle sizes.

:

It depends completely on the cut of the saddle. An 18" in one style /make will take up less of the back than an 18" in another style.
 

Sparkles

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I don't mean this offensively, just as a genuine general comment, but, if a horse has the conformational length for a 22" saddle, does it really have that capability/strength to take more weight without suffering stress/break down over time?

Again. I'm sure they did all this in trials and tests with it. But, that was just my first thought.
 

YorksG

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I don't mean this offensively, just as a genuine general comment, but, if a horse has the conformational length for a 22" saddle, does it really have that capability/strength to take more weight without suffering stress/break down over time?

Again. I'm sure they did all this in trials and tests with it. But, that was just my first thought.

I think that is a really good question, the longer back a horse has, then surely the less stable it is? The long backed ID I mentioned above had done a lot of jumping before we got her and she did have back issues, so I would have thought it could be a problem.

And just another point about 18" saddles and which horses can wear them, my Old Appy at 15.3 had one, which fitted her perfectly, the current Appy can only manage a 16 1/2" one. The first was rangy, the second very compact.
 

thatsmygirl

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I think a 22in saddle is mad. I agree with christmassparkles that would be a long back surely to take that length? And long backs are ment to be weaker.
 

Sparkles

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I think that is a really good question, the longer back a horse has, then surely the less stable it is? The long backed ID I mentioned above had done a lot of jumping before we got her and she did have back issues, so I would have thought it could be a problem.

And just another point about 18" saddles and which horses can wear them, my Old Appy at 15.3 had one, which fitted her perfectly, the current Appy can only manage a 16 1/2" one. The first was rangy, the second very compact.

Again. I did not mean it offensively, so glad it wasn't taken that way.

My lad, again, could carry an 18" saddle, though I ride him in a 17.5". I'm aware he has a long back and I feel like I am erring on the side of heavy for him as a regular rider at 12 stone. That's not me being OTT about my weight, but, just me knowing my horse and what he could withstand. I wouldn't advise anyone heavier than that to ride him, as I don't honestly think he's got the conformation for it. But that said, he IS a TB, and one with incorrect conformation ideally, and not bred to be that, so not really uncommon.

Even some of our big HW hunters....yes, they were perfectly capable of taking as much weight needed as that's their type, but, they still had spot on conformation and were not long in the back, so still were 18" saddles at an absolute push. The majority, still wore 17.5".
Long backs are always drilled to be conformation faults, and more prone to injury, so I wouldn't think of them as being able to be weight carriers.

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217353_1026902726623_4172_n.jpg

17.3hh ID.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/2586_1076735452410_5200308_n.jpg

18.3hh Shire x TB.


Same goes for the cobs. Up to the weight, that's no problem, but should be short backed and strong, so again, most are 16.5-17" saddles.

Which I think, where the problems lie. I'm not opposed to weight at all, as there's plenty of horses out there who can cope with that no problem, but, I just don't see how, a 22" seat is physically possible that's all.

I'm curious if anyone could explain or expand on that at to me all, as I'm happy to see the reasoning :)
 
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Elsbells

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When you look at the size of a stock or western saddle...size???

I have an 18" saddle on my 16h SFx and she loves it and is very happy. She had several back issues when I bought her and had been ridden and jumped in a lot smaller saddle. Sometimes I think riders use a saddle much to small for the horse they are riding and that must cause a lot of problems as the weight isn't distributed equally which causes pressure points? OMO;)
 

Littlelegs

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Ditto cs on the long backed problem. And don't see that height calls for 22" saddles. I have 36" inside legs, & because I sit correctly, i.e. not like an armchair I can easily do anything but jump in a 15" saddle without compromising my position. Admittedly I have a scrawny backside & ride long, but I would still expect someone with legs my length, an average size bum & even normal length stirrups to fit in an 18" saddle at the most.
So for me a 22" saddle encourages the view that its ok for the massively too heavy to ride. And by too heavy, I don't mean in a personal health or appearance way, I mean simply too heavy for a horse. Nobody expects tutus or leotards in sizes to fit the massively overweight, its considered standard you would achieve a vague level of fitness before partaking. And I fail to see why riding should be any different.
 

Batgirl

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I'm sorry but if you know you are a heavy person then you ought to know you are too heavy to ride.


This I find rather sweeping, I know I am heavy, I also know I am balanced, that I get my horses back checked regularly and actually know how to school my horse in order to develop his back muscles, I am fairly sure there are some lovely 9 stone riders on horses with weak backs that do a lot of damage. There is no black and white here. For the record I weigh 17 Stone and I know I am NOT too heavy to ride the horse I have.

I rarely get drawn into the heavy rider debates because they go no where, those that think I shouldn't ride aren't going to change my mind, I doubt I would change theirs and small minded people aren't going to make me sell my horse. This comment just made me boil.
 

crabbymare

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Thinking back the very old fashioned serge lined half panel saddles that were used on the wider hunters and cobs used to have a wider top to the seat and flatter wider panels for the horses back without being long. if these were used as a starting idea I think there would be a good market for them from the larger rider and although the rider on the h&h article is on the bigger side I have seen a lot of people bigger and who really do need a saddle with a seat wide enough for their bums so that they are comfortable and which would spread the weight ont he horse back but I am not sure that making the saddle longer is the answer.
 

Nicnac

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The MD of Fuller Fillies, Suzanne Wild, has said she doubts they would be asked to produce a 22in seat but that all saddles would be fitted by a qualified saddler. This is followed by a member of SMS saying it would be an issue to fit. :confused:

Is Horse & Hound turning into the Daily Fail? Is the story is a load of tosh & FF are getting some free publicity......
 

Clava

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When you look at the size of a stock or western saddle...size???

I have an 18" saddle on my 16h SFx and she loves it and is very happy. She had several back issues when I bought her and had been ridden and jumped in a lot smaller saddle. Sometimes I think riders use a saddle much to small for the horse they are riding and that must cause a lot of problems as the weight isn't distributed equally which causes pressure points? OMO;)

In the US they have a different view as to what is acceptable.

http://www.horseforum.com/plus-sized-riders/anyone-brave-enough-post-98650/
 

rhino

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Clava

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I'm not so sure they do; have seen plenty similar threads to the ones on here on US forums. That is a 'plus sized riders' forum, so hardly representative I would have thought - you can find a forum for almost anything now! :D

The threads on the main forum are usually very supportive of very large riders, not just in the separate forum (it was just the simplest example to find), over here even on a "plus sized rider section" photos such as those would receive comment.
 

Littlelegs

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Those pics are shocking, just cruelty imo. But agree with rhino, its not a us thing. Just like minded wierdos who have banded together in order to convince themselves that their warped views on overloading their horses are acceptable. Being overweight is fine, provided the horse can carry you happily.
 

Clava

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Those pics are shocking, just cruelty imo. But agree with rhino, its not a us thing. Just like minded wierdos who have banded together in order to convince themselves that their warped views on overloading their horses are acceptable. Being overweight is fine, provided the horse can carry you happily.

Is there a UK equivalent forum then??? do we have the same groups of people?
 

tallyho!

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Where is the evidence that very few horses can take an 18" saddle? I have known/do know a large number who do with no problem.
A tall person would need a longer saddle due to the length of their thigh bones.

Why would they need a longer saddle? You don't sit on your thighbones, you sit on your seatbones. A saddle is not a chair.

If I were to fit a saddle for tall people, it would be stirrup length I would suggest adjusting, not the saddle length!
 

Angelbones

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I find the original HHo article confusing / misleading :confused:

Without intending to offend the person in the pic, I think using that image with the article implies that a WIDER seat saddle may be made to accommodate larger riders with a wider bottom, rather than a LONGER saddle to accommodate much taller riders. The company referred to is Fuller Fillies after all, not Long Tall Sally :p. Perhaps a more appropriate pic would have been more helpful. I think we are all right in our thinking that it would be a particularly tall rider who may need a 22" saddle, rather than a heavier rider who would, unless of course you are talking about a very tall, particularly heavy rider? :confused: and I don't know many of those.

My horse is 16.1 and I am about 5'9, currently weighing around 12st but normally riding at 11st. He is short backed and he wears an Albion 18" saddle. He accommodates it easily. I had the same size saddle on my previous horse; a 15.1 mare with some substance, again it was a good fit.
 

Chavhorse

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The MD of Fuller Fillies, Suzanne Wild, has said she doubts they would be asked to produce a 22in seat but that all saddles would be fitted by a qualified saddler. This is followed by a member of SMS saying it would be an issue to fit. :confused:

Is Horse & Hound turning into the Daily Fail? Is the story is a load of tosh & FF are getting some free publicity......

If the saddle is of the same quality as the rest of their tat then I doubt they will sell very many so may be a moot point!
 

YasandCrystal

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I found those pictures upsetting. I am sorry I understand about a muscular man weighing perhaps a great deal, but this is not about weight alone and an obese person such as those in the pictures can have no core stability imo. Should the horse spook and shy (if they physically could with that weight on them) then the force of the riders weight on the one side would be tremendous.
One person talks of the horse being known to put in a buck - I cannot believe a horse so overloaded could possibly buck. :(
 

rhino

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I think we are all right in our thinking that it would be a particularly tall rider who may need a 22" saddle, rather than a heavier rider who would, unless of course you are talking about a very tall, particularly heavy rider? :confused: and I don't know many of those.

I'd say WFP is pretty tall and he's been quoted several times as using either 17" or 17 1/2" saddles ;) :)
 

tallyho!

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I'd say WFP is pretty tall and he's been quoted several times as using either 17" or 17 1/2" saddles ;) :)

Thats because he uses his seatbones and not his legs to sit in a saddle ;):)

oh, and he isn't four miles wide :D
 
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