Well this is a can of worms

Wow. This thread has shocked me, particularly the link to that absolutely vulgar larger ladies forum - USA really do shock to a whole new level.

I agree with everything Wagtail has said on this, and I feel that there must be a point where people realise they are too heavy to sit on a horse, over any build.
 
Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".
 
There's certainly a grey area around how much an individual horse can carry, it does depend on so many factors, condition, fitness, level of work etc. But I defy anyone with a shred of humanity to defend the right of that woman on dancer on the first page. That's not a grey area, it is very black & white, it simply isn't justifiable for any reasons.
 
RunToEarth said:
Wow. This thread has shocked me, particularly the link to that absolutely vulgar larger ladies forum - USA really do shock to a whole new level.
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Big Ben said:
Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".
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I'm puzzled by the word "vulgar" too. :confused: Are you saying the forum is vulgar, or the ladies? :eek:

I think there are some people who are seriously too heavy for their horses on that forum, but I saw no vulgarity. :confused:
 
kerilli said:
Hmm, the difference is that alcoholics (and former drug addicts etc) can totally avoid their particular 'poison' - I know some that do, very successfully. They just do not allow themselves near to temptation. But if you are a food addict (the word 'carboholic' has been coined) it is not possible to avoid food for the rest of your life. It becomes a lifelong battle to eat enough to have energy etc but not fall off the cliff and overeat, eat the wrong things (which we are now surrounded with) and yo-yo back up again.
I suspect that 99% of obese people would probably, deep down, just LOVE to wake up one morning in a fit and healthy much lighter body, however much they say they love their size, embrace their curves, feel like a 'real woman' and all that ****.
Nobody ever said it's easy but it is a choice for most people... very very few can say their weight is 100% down to illness, hormones etc. It took a long time to put on that weight, it takes a long time to get rid of it, and it'll be a daily battle against a body which is convinced that a famine is coming and it needs to hang onto every calorie...
Other people validating their size, saying 'it's fine to be 20 stone and still ride" might bolster their confidence but it is just NOT fair on the horses, nothing will ever change my mind on that. And the statement on the FF facebook page that there's a horse out there the right size for everyone just makes me want to scream.
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this is the most sensible thing posted about weight I ahve seen in a long time and almost the exact words I used when speaking to my doctor, I am T Total, quit smoking but you can't just give up food. I am active, I need enough energy to ride, play netball, basketball etc. I have been referred to a dietician to help me start to manage it better, and so will begin a never ending battle with a sweet and savoury tooth but I am under no illusions that it is my own fault.
 
Big Ben said:
Run to Earth, you may want to read your siggy line, and the forum is not vulgar, you are looking at one small sub section of a large and active forum, with subscribers from around the world, nothing is indeed totally black and white, even the question of when are you to big has a large grey area, and often starts "well it depends".
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whilst I agree nothing is black and white, I maintain that there is a point where your weight should refrain you from mounting an animal who cannot always outwardly display the pain it feels. I understand a person's weight is difficult to control however I feel that when a person's excess fat is being caught in tack, that is a clear statement in itself.

Your balance and riding ability have a great deal to do with your fitness, I simply feel the women in the link posted had very little judging by their seats and their size.

With regards to my vulgar comment, I was referring to their attitude not their appearance, I am not that rude. Perhaps vulgar was the wrong word, I just cannot understand why you would get on a horse at that size.
 
Geez I wrote a huge response and lost it cause the forum logged me out! Argh! Ok lets try this again!

I have read this whole post and while many of you seem to have genuine concern for the horses, some of the responses were just awful. Saying things like "The horse was probably afraid it was going to get eaten" is just insensitive and bullying. Just because someone is heavy it doesn't make them any less of a person, and it does not make you better then them.

That said.. Hello! My name is Kylie. Am I overweight? I sure as heck am! Am I happy about it? Of course I'm not, I HATE it. Am I trying to do something about it? Of course I am. But being overweight is not going to keep me from doing the one thing I love most in the world, riding!

About 6 years ago I weighed about 200lbs (I'm tall (6'0) and big boned and the ideal weight for my size is 180). 4 years ago I weighed 260, I gained a lot of weight my first 2 years of college. 3 years ago I was down to 240 and then I hurt my back. I herniated 2 discs and chipped a disc, and had to have surgery to remove bone chips that were pinching nerves. After the surgery I couldn't do much of anything for about 6 months, couldn't start riding again for a year. After the first 6 months I started 6 months of light physical therapy. I PACKED on weight that year and got to the heaviest I EVER was, a whopping 325lbs. Right now I'm down to about 275, but it's a struggle because of my back. But I am trying.

I have an 8 year old Percheron/Thoroughbred mare named Amber, who I got literally a month before I ended up having surgery. She has been vetted by 3 different vets and is sound as sound can be, she gets regular chiropractic adjustments, and even at my heaviest I was given the ok to ride her by the vets, chiropractors and my trainer at the time. I do everything to ensure that she is comfortable. I bought a custom fit Bevel saddle for her. I only ride 3-4x a week, and never ride for over an hour, 20 minutes of which is walking. I will not jump her over 2' until I get down to 240 (it gives me a goal) and right now only jump once a week or every other week for 20 minutes. My trainer rider her 2x a week and when I can't ride, to ensure that she stays in fit shape. I bend over backwards to make sure that Amber is happy, healthy and comfortable.

I am absolutely not ashamed about posting pictures on here so here you go.

2 years ago when I was at my heaviest 325
45938_423192243025_512623025_4893516_4377322_n.jpg


A few months after that
73133_451988678025_512623025_5461489_4822503_n.jpg


Christmas 2011 show
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and 2 months ago at about 280 in that picture
DSC_0681-2.jpg



I guess the whole point of this post was to say that yes, there are those out there who jump on a horse without taking into account the fact that they might be to heavy, but most of the plus sized riders I have met are like me and do everything in their power to ensure that their horse is happy and comfortable!
 
Welcome, Moonmagic. :)

Yours is a very fair and honest post, good luck with your weight loss. I agree a few people can't help but have a giggle and poke fun about weight issues, which is unkind and unacceptable. Fortunately I think most here are not like that.
 
you certainly shouldn't feel ashamed of your size moon magic. But I don't agree with riding that horse. You say you wouldn't let your weight stop your love of riding, fair enough, it shouldn't do permanently. But I'm not going to let being pc get in the way of my love of horses, & agree its ok to ask them to carry more than they should.
 
Moonmagic, welcome! What a lovely horse you have! Sorry to hear about the awful back problems you have had and now that you are mended and back riding again, I'm sending you loads of motivation vibes to get you to your target weight :). It's great that you do everything to make your horse happy and comfortable and you know you owe it to yourself to be happy and comfortable too. Hope you carry on posting to keep us posted with progress :):):):)
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
Just had a nosy at D2R's blog and would like to point out one thing:

Quote:
Friday night we’d had lasagne and chips which although was a big portion, I did stop myself part way through. Which left me wanting more.

Even after toffee yogurt I was still thinking about food. But I managed to soldier on and not eat anything else that night. Saturday was a bit of a mix up day, we were going to have a sandwich out but actually ended up in a pub. Where despite knowing I had a BBQ later.

I still ordered scampi and chips. Followed by chocolate brownie, which I did share with The boy. -i didn’t want to- then saturday night was actually a hog roast roll with some salads followed by cheesecake. I have to admit to demolishing this, it was the nicest cheesecake I’d had in a while.

And then onto sunday, which was brunch of bacon and cheese baps. With pizza and coleslaw for dinner, I had saved up my treat so I could have popcorn and chocolate in front of a film. (I know I shouldn’t of done this) I had wanted to stop the whole snacking in front of tv or at least make it fruit.

Then after the boy went to bed I had a scout around the kitchen but all I could find was a lollipop, which was horrible. So I settled on one of my toffee yogurts with the idea that at least I was having something I enjoyed and hopefully I wouldn’t go back for more junk.

I managed to stay away, despite feeling hungry and constantly thinking about food. I went to bed reasonably chilled. With a glimmer of hope I would be down a pound today, Nope no such luck.


Hun, you really need to have a look at your diet! This is all fattening food (apart from the fruit but you didn't have that) and you will struggle to lose weight if this is a typical sample of what you eat! I really suggest that you visit a dietician/nutritionist.

ETA: having just watched that video, all of your 23 stone is focused over one small area of your horse's back as you have squashed yourself into that saddle :(:(:(
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I have to echo this. Honestly, D2R, I struggle with my weight but eating like this you do not stand a chance. Pretty much everything you have described here is high fat and high carbohydrate, and basically diet hell. To lose a pound you (rough calcs here) you need to use about 3500 calories that you havent eaten, which means, assuming your daily calorific requirement is 2000 calories that you need about 1500 calories a day to lose a pound a week. That is essentially incompatible with eating what you have set out above, unless they are the teeniest, tiniest portions, which will leave you screaming hungry. Take your sunday, bacon and cheese baps are quite likely around 500 calories each, and the pizza around 900, coleslaw may sound healthy but its full of mayonnaise so you probably had a good 300 calories there. Now these are rough calcs and everyone is different (a lot of people don't need 2000 calories for starters), and protein calories are harder to digest than carbs so not all calories are equal. A nutritionist can tell you what is right for you, and design a regime that will help you - it seems to me that half the problem is you don't know what is good or bad. Honestly, I'm dieting right now and after two weeks I can now nearly do up my black escada suit which means I have reduced in size - YAYY - believe me what I eat looks nothing like your list! Try grilling a piece of salmon with a big bunch of asparagus and peppers for example and have that for dinner. If you want a treat, then try something like a french fancy (one!) - they have 106 calories in them so not that bad and it will give you a sweet taste that might stop you eating tons of something worse.
 
Puppy said:
I can't believe that they have banned elanorg from the other site for trying to get them to see sense.
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Same as FF deleting (polite) comments on their page if they don't happen to agree with their completely blinkered views. At least Suzanne is happy to admit she doesn't believe in 'Freedom of speech' :rolleyes:

The obesity problem is NOT going to go away. You can make clothes and tack as large as you like, but it is NOT healthy and WILL have a negative effect on (a) your horseriding ability, and (b) your horse.
 
Elanorg is on time out, not banned for ever, and maybe they will come up with a more constructive way of putting their point of view over, because their current approach isn't going to win anyone over.

Oh and a lot of us have spent time on the "naughty bench" and now try and make our points a little more subtly
 
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Diet2ride if you are still reading this, I notice that your horse, Nas is 15.3 hh. He's about the same build as my 15.3 chuncky warmblood. Her ideal weight (that she is now) is 530 kg. At her heaviest, she was 600kg! Even if Naz'z ideal weight was 600 kg, then you are 27% of his weight with tack. That is far too heavy. At most you should be 19 stone including tack, and so that is 17 stone without clothes and tack. Less if Naz would be overweight at 600 kg which I think he would be. At the moment it is the equivalent of your running around with over six stone in a ruck sack.

Echo what others have said regarding your eating. Your calories are far too high. You say your name is diet2ride, why don't you live up to that? Set a target weight and just keep Naz fit with ground work until you reach it. Your reward can be riding when you reach your target weight.
 
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Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.
 
Even if the 20% 'rule' was to be used as a guide and not a bible do we really think that 7 or 8 % above that is a fair tolerance? Unikely!
 
Big Ben. I agree that it depends on bone, conformation, type etc BUT despite all of these factors there comes a time when a person becomes too heavy to sit on an animal and no 'type' of saddle or measurement of bone can touch the fact that the person should not get on their horse, surely?
 
Big Ben said:
Even if we go with the 20% rule as being set in stone, and I don't think it is the be all and end all, then is that 20% to sit on, walk around for half an hour, spend a day going cross country, training and riding in low level dressage tests?

That rule does not take into consideration bone density, conformation, sort of saddle used, and any other variation. It's a guide line, somewhere to start from but not the bible.

As ever the horse is the decider, not defending or attacking anyone here, but certain breeds of horse are better at weight carrying, they are just built for it.
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Indeed. I had a 17.3 hh pure Irish draft gelding. He weighted in at 850 kg. He was very tall for an Irish Draft. But he really struggled with a 16 stone sharer I had for him. Yet my smaller 15.3 mare carried her easily. However, I would not have allowed her to ride her for more than 20 minutes as I am sure that even though she looked fine, she is quite long backed and it would have caused her problems.
 
It also has to be considered, the temperament of every horse. Some horses are extremely honest and stoicle and will not let you know if they are struggling until it is too late.
 
The conformation of a horses back is key if thehorses is to be a wieght carrier, I have seen huge big but weak in the back horses bought for largish men to hunt and they struggle if they have not got correctly muscled backs.
On paper a 17 hand Irish draught should carry a big man but it's just not as simple as that.
My OH has had some quite small horses but as long as their backs are a good and easy to muscle shape they are fine we had one big heavily boned Irish horse who was very weak and hollow when he arrived it took a year to get him into the right shape to do his job.
 
Billie1007 said:
Big Ben. I agree that it depends on bone, conformation, type etc BUT despite all of these factors there comes a time when a person becomes too heavy to sit on an animal and no 'type' of saddle or measurement of bone can touch the fact that the person should not get on their horse, surely?
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Oh yes, there has to be a cut off point, but the grey area is huge. I think my biggest issue is that people believe they can take a look at one picture of someone riding and tell the whole story about the horse, it's way of going, and that the rider is to big.

I have far more faith in a trainer who is there, seeing the whole picture, they need to be honest with the rider. Those who are consulting with vet, chiro and any other professional, well I hope that those people are looking out for the welfare of the horse, and will be honest with the owner. They do make assessments based on more than a snapshot. I bet even riders who are well below the 20% mark can post a pic where their horse is not tracking up, looks pissy or uncomfortable, just the way it is.
 
Goldenstar said:
The conformation of a horses back is key if thehorses is to be a wieght carrier, I have seen huge big but weak in the back horses bought for largish men to hunt and they struggle if they have not got correctly muscled backs.
On paper a 17 hand Irish draught should carry a big man but it's just not as simple as that.
My OH has had some quite small horses but as long as their backs are a good and easy to muscle shape they are fine we had one big heavily boned Irish horse who was very weak and hollow when he arrived it took a year to get him into the right shape to do his job.
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Couldn't have put it better myself:)
I have a 15.2 Arab X Hanoverian mare who, on paper, should be able to carry a rider of reasonable weight. However, she is short backed.
My friend weighed just over 13 stone and unfortunately my mare was not able to carry her weight, she virtually sat down when mounted. I had all the checks done, but nothing was revealed.

My friend desperately wanted to ride her, so she decided to lose weight, so that she could. She lost 5 stones in total:):):)
 
DH1 said:
Couldn't have put it better myself:)
I have a 15.2 Arab X Hanoverian mare who, on paper, should be able to carry a rider of reasonable weight. However, she is short backed.
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:confused: I thought short backed was better than long from the point of view of weight carrying?

DH1 said:
My friend weighed just over 13 stone and unfortunately my mare was not able to carry her weight, she virtually sat down when mounted. I had all the checks done, but nothing was revealed.

My friend desperately wanted to ride her, so she decided to lose weight, so that she could. She lost 5 stones in total:):):)
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Hang on doing the math here.......13 x 14 = 182 pounds :eek:

OK question, is this horse and rider pair OK

acerides017.jpg
 
Big Ben said:
Oh yes, there has to be a cut off point, but the grey area is huge. I think my biggest issue is that people believe they can take a look at one picture of someone riding and tell the whole story about the horse, it's way of going, and that the rider is to big.
.
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In some cases one look at a picture is enough, when saddles are swamped and riders look huge on them. The grey area for many horses coping (when the rider is over 20% ) isn't that large, with the exceptions being particular breeds such as fells, highlands and icelandics that have exceptional weight carrying ability for their size.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Diet2ride. I've been fat. Of course it's a choice. You don't see any obese folk in famine struck countries do you. The choice is eat less, weigh less, it doesn't matter what medical condition or what tablets you are on, it is a basic fact that if energy in exceeds energy out you will gain weight.
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How can it be a choice? :confused: Who would choose to become morbidly obese? Obesity is a complex problem with many contributing factors, including the easy availability of fast food, inability to cook a meal, not having time to cook a meal, medical conditions, emotional eating, etc. Lack of self-control probably plays a part for some, but I don't think that calling people lazy and blaming them will change a thing. In fact I believe that this can have the opposite effect and make things worse. After all, if your main source of comfort is food and you are being insulted and ridiculed what are you likely to do next?

I know that people are different and react in different ways but I don't see how making fun of people will change their behaviour. Feedback politely put is far more likely to have an effect and stop people who (at least for the time being) should not be riding their horses from doing so.
 
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