Welsh section Ds- novice or not?

[catkin]

Welsh Cobs and cobs are not the same though sometimes confused.

The Welsh can be fantastic if you click, nightmares if you don't. My own darling girl hasn't a nasty bone in her body but she is super-sensitive, uber-clever and chooses her human 'friends' very carefully. We think she's an absolute delight but it would be very easy for her to go 'off the rails' with someone who didn't understand the breed and their quirks - novice or not.

 

[Merry Crisis]

I had a sweet mare who would accept anyone on her back, others I have seen at studs, i felt were to strong and fiery for me [youngstock] as they were always handled by a strong male.

Some of the best handlers of Welsh sec Ds in the show ring are women, they also manage to produce them very well to! Like anything to do with horses it is down to ability not how strong you are. Look at 8 stone jockeys on racehorses. I would say most strong males that handle these welsh cobs make the job look worse than it is due to them not being truly able!

 

[Ranyhyn]

It depends on what type of novice they were and what type of D it was

 

[SaffronWelshDragon]

I've had my beloved Welsh D for 10 years next year. She was my third pony (horse) so I was out of the novice category by then. She's of unknown breeding, an absolute sweetheart and wouldn't hurt a fly, but is also a chestnut mare and can be fiery and a little scatty although she wouldn't do anything naughty deliberately, she occasionally get excited. Most of the time she's level-headed and brave. She also puts her head down, practically touching the floor when I bridle her, not sure whether she had a tiny person tacking her up before I got her!

Not wanting to tar all horses of that breed (or any breed) with the same brush, I'm sure they vary hugely so best to try lots of different ones, personally I love the breed, they're far and away my favourite

Edited to add: Loving all the photos

 

[OWLIE185]

I have had completely the opposite experience.
My pure Welsh Section D is 100% safe with anyone on board to hack out alone or in company. She is 100% bombproof and does not spook at anything. 100% to shoe, box vet etc. Not a bad bone in her body. 100% trustworthy.
In her earlier life she was a show pony for many years.
She is also a ride and drive.

 

[FestiveBoomBoom]

I think it definitely depends on the individual. I have a 5 yr old Welsh D and he is a total saint, anyones ride. However when we first moved to our current livery yard I had a few comments from fellow liveries about how he looked like he could be a tricky ride/handful (they came to this conclusion by just looking at him!) and nothing could be further from the truth! I am very lucky in that he is flashy but at the same time very safe and sane. I will try and put some pics up....

 

[miss_c]

My D is very well mannered, but I wouldn't trust her with a novice as I reckon she'd soon cotton on and take the p!ss. However my Mum has ridden her on the lunge (literally only in walk) and she went into plod mode. On the other hand, somebody else got on her and they were ejected quite sharpish. You definitely have to convince her that everything is HER idea, and if she doesn't want to do something you will end up with a 'discussion' on your hands.

There would be some D's suitable for novices, but the ones I know I would say no.

And some photos of my lovely girl... she has a cracking jump, and can pull a cracking dressage test! She also looked after monkeybum13 (not that monkeybum13 needed looking after to be honest!) who got on her for the fourth time ever at showjumping and jumped her for the first time in the warmup!

And looking after my then 68 year old Mum on Christmas Day 2009

 

[FestiveBoomBoom]

As per my previous post, anyone could get on him and have a plod about but to actually get him working nicely does require some firm riding at times! Not that he is naughty, just a little on the stubborn side. He is lovely to jump, very rarely says no and that's only when I mess it up, hacks alone and in company and can have a good gallop and pull him up no problem. If anything I would say he was a sod to handle on the ground when I first got him 18 months ago, could be bargey,drag you to the verges, didn't like picking his feet up, being bathed etc but is fine now.

 

[SaffronWelshDragon]

My D is very well mannered, but I wouldn't trust her with a novice as I reckon she'd soon cotton on and take the p!ss. However my Mum has ridden her on the lunge (literally only in walk) and she went into plod mode. On the other hand, somebody else got on her and they were ejected quite sharpish. You definitely have to convince her that everything is HER idea, and if she doesn't want to do something you will end up with a 'discussion' on your hands.

I totally agree with you there. Saf is the lead mare of our little herd, and when we get to a junction, she'll look left and right then make a decision as to which way to go. If it's the wrong way, we then have to have a slight discussion about it, but she always gives in with little argument. Just has to know that her opinion is being heard

 

[Morgan123]

Agree it depends on the individual but I have heard lots of trainers, including Kelly MArks, say they'd be out of business if it weren't for Welsh Ds. I love mine dearly but God I wouldn't buy one again - he took a LOT of getting used to/teeth gritting/visits to a&e. Would never part with him though....

 

[minimex2]

I wish i hadnt read this . Im getting a new cob on Friday and very much looks like a welsh D, am im a novice.........

Another thing to worry about

 

[NeverSayNever]

as everyone else has said, it really depends on the horse and the person, I wouldnt rule it out as a possibility but Id advise to proceed with caution. Purely because I know some can be very bolshy and headstrong on the ground and ridden wise can really use those shoulders to their own advantage.

My own experience is that I have a wonderful 7 year old mare who is a darling! She is looking after me beautifully and I wouldnt be riding her if she wasnt as safe as can be, given I am 4 months pregnant She will go past anything out hacking, doesnt get silly and is a sweetheart to work with.

I do keep on top of her manners on the ground but because I do, I dont have a problem. She can also be very strong and is by no means a kick along plod. She is very forward and onward bound. Not in a jogging/silly way - just that she strides out with purpose, often leaving much bigger horses behind. I know my friend (whom i bought her from) had her mum hacking out on her who is a real novice and they got on fine but they would only walk as her speed and keeness worried her. She also did end up coming off her when she got a bit mareish and tried to use her heels on the other horse they were out with. She is very keen to please but if not ridden correctly in the school or if confused she will get her knickers in a twist - she wont do anything bad at all , just get stronger and fizzed up. So anyone really nervous who was hanging on and worried by her probably wouldnt get on so well. Id say a well balanced novice who wasnt too nervous about her being onward bound and a bit strong at times would be fine though!

She is, however, one of the most uncomplicated and easy going horses Ive had,she's a gem.

perfect manners charging up and down the beach last weekend

 

[youngfarmer]

A friend of mine owns a welsh D. He is older but very much quirky. Her 4 year old niece rides him on her own, off the lead rein and even jumps him. He still has a spark about him, even with her on board, but is slightly more placid and she has *touch wood* never fallen off him to date-even when she first jumped him and he flew at it and threw in a massive jump.

I would say they can be suitable for novice riders, and are very loyal!

 

[angelish]

depends ,just like any other breed they are individuals

friend had one that was perfect for a novice ,she was lovely and would really look after you

she also had one that was "wired to the noon" although he was as safe as houses
i bought my first welsh D project this year and he has only ever been ridden by novice riders but i would of said he was totally unsuitable for a novice but although he can be a little nervy he has the most wonderful temprement and would do his best to look after you

he's so nice i think iv'e decided to keep him sshhhh

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I think one needs to look at the history of the breed: my understanding is that these cobs were bred to WORK, and work hard, in the coal mines primarily - not underground but doing the heavy jobs that were too much for the pit ponies and also were used as general driving ponies, being strong and hardy, good doers able to live off the side of a hillside with a gorse bush for shelter and a blade of grass to live on - and they thrived.

The problem is that when you take a breed that is meant to work and be kept busy, and use them as a leisure horse; that often means disaster unfortunately as these tough little cobs can be very endearing BUT if not handled firmly they can very quickly get out of hand particularly with a novice handler/rider.

They're super little cobs but as has been said, can be too sharp for a novice, and too punchy often in their action, again something which can disarm a novice who may not want something with so much energy and impulsion!

They can be strong, very strong, and their sheer energy and willpower might not always be the best thing for someone who is maybe more used to the plod at the local riding school or an armchair ride.

So no, I wouldn't recommend them for a novice. In the right hands they are fantastic, very loyal and great characters, but for a novice, nope!

 

[lauraandjack]

Very much depends on the individual horse!

Between owning and loaning I've had 4 D's over the years. 2 would be suitable for confident novices (i.e. those capable of firm handling, as all welshies will take the pee if given the opportunity........) and 2 that were not novice rides at all.

Jack is an absolute saint on the ground although he can be a bit jumpy (I think he's been given a good pasting in the past), however to ride he is not a novice ride at all, he'll do anything for me but that's after 4 years spent building a partnership, if someone else gets on him he goes like a crab!

 

[Welshie Squisher]

My favourite breed

Some are wonderful and suited to novices, others are highly strung and oppinionated and would scare the hell out of a novice.
So like any breed, really depends on the individual horse.

Mine is a little cow, but I totally adore her and love her spark

 

[youngfarmer]

Should of said as well-my friends niece has learnt to ride on that welsh D too, and her mum who also has suffered a back injury and is now left with issues from it takes him cross country and he looks after her but will still mess around at times.

 

[trendybraincell]

As everyone has said, you can't generalise...mine is pretty much a saint, I would trust him with a total novice, although I probably wouldn't let a total novice on him!! Thats not to say he didn't almost send my trainer flying last week, or rear up and break the school fencing a few months ago! When the mood takes him he can be a SOB, but that tends to be when you push him out of his comfort zone

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Oo I love a Welsh D thread-with-pix almost as much as I love the breed itself! Loving seeing all your beautiful D's.
I have 2 D's - one is an archetypal horror and the other isn't. They are half-brothers but had very different upbringings, which probably accounts for their differences.
20 years ago, I regularly rode a Welsh D in a private showjumping yard...this was before the likes of performance D's like Machno Carwyn and people used to laugh at him in the collecting-ring. They soon stopped when they saw how he could jump. And in the stable he was the most mannerly human-orientated lovey-dovey horse of them all. But for the things he was scared by..ie clipping...he was a nightmare. And I wasn't massively experienced then but he was fine for me to ride...
So I think it depends on the individual D - and the individual novice!
For me, the reason why lots of people find D's difficult is the reason why I love them.
Yes, they are opinionated, downright stubborn even/know their own mind...
Yes they are super-sharp/extra sensitive....
Yes they are a pain in the backside at times because they are usually pretty bright....
They're not everyone's cup of tea - but they're certainly my 'paned o de!!'

Here are my lovely boys:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/album.php?albumid=2418
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/album.php?albumid=2243

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

I think if they are well brought up then then they can be dreams, but our experiences has taught us that if they aren't they really can use those massive shoulders to do a lot of barging!

Henry was only 14hh, superb jumping pony (literally unstoppable, he'd ping round 1.10m courses like they weren't there!), but he was also a handful. He had to be lead everywhere in a bridle or a chifney, because he was prone to charging off to get his own way. Al used to climb in and out of his stable because he'd barge out otherwise- if she was doing anything with him he had to be tied up. Ridden, he was very strong, and did try to get his own way all the time- he was ridden in a cheltenham gag but she also wore spurs and carried a whip, because he was strong but also a bit of an arse!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=488915

That's him. All our other horses have been good on the ground, but he just knew how much he could get away with due to having got away with it! Astonishing pony though, took my sister from doing PC 2'9/ 3' classes to pinging round 1.10m ODEs, despite having done less than her!

Just checked out Henry's thread - what a dude! Typical D, love it...great pictures...would imagine he is distantly related to one of my boys...v similar markings and my boy is showing all the signs of being keen for a jump..gulp!

 

[SillyFilly]

My D would honestly make mince-meat of a novice (or anyone she could dominate to be fair). I have no problems with her on the ground, we get on great....but I'm under no illusions and she has to be kept 'in-line' so to speak....

What makes it more difficult, is she looks like butter wouldnt melt.....

And I wouldnt change a thing..

 

[Merry Crisis]

What are they going to do............... trot off with you?

 

[kelly_s1]

I own a Welsh Section D cross hackney, owned him nearly 2 years

He is a very cheeky chappy, can be sharp, on the odd occasion rears when excited, but he is brilliant to hack, jump, lead in/out from the the field, to clip, box, with the vet and I would not be without him, he makes me laugh every day, he does random things

It depends the horse, one could be perfect for a novice, the other may not. But they are known for their cheeky ways

 

[welshied]

Think it depends on the individual IMO but from experience i have ridden more welsh d's that wouldn't be suitable for a novice then what would be. I currently have a 4 year old had him since a yearling and i think a novice would stop on him for about 5 mins, he isn't very forgiving, has one hell of a buck and bolt in him and won't be made to do anything he doesn't want to. But when out hacking he is completely different and really safe because he likes doing that i hope we eventually meet a steady medium lol

 

[palomino698]

I would say they are absolutely not for novices - but then, it is going to depend on the pony and the rider.

An educated, confident, relaxed older D, one with a generally affectionate and gentle nature, sensibly fed, worked and handled, may well continue to be polite with an inexperienced rider, but for how long? They are highly intelligent, very strong characters, and have more than their share of give-an-inch-it'll-take-a-mile attitude.

They can react unexpectedly to things another pony would tolerate - never, never shout at a D unless you understand how long you will spend regretting it!

To have a novice rider buy a Welsh D for their first horse, especially a young one, is courting disaster and misery, probably ending up with a rider scared to get on the animal and a clever pony getting more and more upset at its handler's inexperience and incompetence. A nervous pony becomes a bolshy pony in a quite different way from an arrogant one that is just plain rude. They are - in my expericence - not especially forgiving.

Having said this, I don't think ANY novice rider should be left to educate a young (under 9) horse of any breed.

 

[Lolo]

What are they going to do............... trot off with you?

Henry never really trotted anywhere. His favourite thing to do was gallop wildly. Or stamp on you/ smear you against the stable wall. He was a darling!

 

[superted1989]

I had a secD when I was 14 and he almost put me off the Welshies for life. Way too much horse for me, clever as a box of monkeys and quite intimidating. He was my second equine and I just couldn't cope
A friend of mine had 2 Uplands bred Ds, they were very calm and docile. We have one of the last Uplands on our yard now. She's 25 and proper old fashioned, leg in each corner, the type that would be fine with a novice as long as she was fed regularly!
My old Ted totally restored my faith in Welshies, he could prance, snort and breathe fire like a proper Welsh dragon but he was the most faithful animal I have ever owned. He was showring bred and had been used as a covering stallion until he was 8 but a total gentleman to handle. He could spot weakness at 100 paces though and would run rings around anybody that allowed him to.
Penpontbren Superted, I miss him every day

Whether a D is suitable for a novice, or not, I think depends on the person and the horse. The right combination can be wonderful

 

[Syrah]

Depends on the horse and the novice.

You can't label a whole breed of horse. As with any breed there are the quiet, easy to handle type and the not so quiet, not so easy to handle type or something in between.

We've got 2 Welsh D's on our yard, both mares. One is quiet to ride, easy to handle on the ground, suitable for a novice nervous or otherwise. The other is quiet to ride, easy to handle on the ground..... most of the time! Suitable for a novice, not suitable for anyone who isn't firm on the ground.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

only opened this to look at the pretty ponies knew some of you couldn't help showing them off