what most of us knew already :)

Tiddlypom

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This was posted on the This Is Hunting UK’s FB page.

’IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Please find below the following statement on behalf of the Hunting Office

The Hunting Office is facing allegations that training webinars run during August, were organised for the purposes of covering up unlawful hunting.

The truth is that two, hour long, Hunting Office webinars clearly dealt with the operation and promotion of legal trail hunting and managing animal rights activism. The allegation that they were organised to discuss covering up unlawful activities is totally incorrect and can only be made by taking a few individual short comments completely out of context.

As you will be aware hunts face almost daily spurious allegations of illegal activity from anti hunt saboteurs and professional activists, and therefore not only have to operate within the law, but also have to be able overtly to demonstrate that they are doing so at any time.

We would encourage you all to avoid commenting on these allegations on Social media or other public forums"

Thank you’

Comments on that post have all gone, it is fair to say that all the posts I saw were not pro hunt.
 

Fairynuff

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This was posted on the This Is Hunting UK’s FB page.

’IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Please find below the following statement on behalf of the Hunting Office

The Hunting Office is facing allegations that training webinars run during August, were organised for the purposes of covering up unlawful hunting.

The truth is that two, hour long, Hunting Office webinars clearly dealt with the operation and promotion of legal trail hunting and managing animal rights activism. The allegation that they were organised to discuss covering up unlawful activities is totally incorrect and can only be made by taking a few individual short comments completely out of context.

As you will be aware hunts face almost daily spurious allegations of illegal activity from anti hunt saboteurs and professional activists, and therefore not only have to operate within the law, but also have to be able overtly to demonstrate that they are doing so at any time.

We would encourage you all to avoid commenting on these allegations on Social media or other public forums"

Thank you’

Comments on that post have all gone, it is fair to say that all the posts I saw were not pro hunt.
Utter cowards and liars.
 

Wishfilly

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I just saw a shortened version of this come up on twitter. I was genuinely shocked to see retired police officers apparently advising hunts on how to break the law, and to see a Tory Peer involved too.

Are the people involved being investigated?
 

Tiddlypom

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An excerpt, this is from transcript 2. There is plenty more.

So this wasn’t about turning the Old Surrey, Burstow and West Kent into a trail laying pack, it was about giving us the support and protection that we needed.
.........


Approximately now two seasons ago we were hunting at a very popular meet, we had sort of 100 mounted and it was a good day everyone was looking forward to. It became clear at 12 o clock midday that we had been infiltrated by some 40-50 hunt saboteurs from both Guildford and Brighton and it was at that point that we decided, the Master of the day decided, that we should revert to Plan B, Plan B being obviously using our team to lay trails for the rest of the day because it became clear that the antis that had arrived were only there for one thing. They wanted a fight and they wanted a big fight. So the team was set in motion and off we went.
 

ycbm

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Tiddlypom

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From transcript 1

It’s a lot easier to create a smokescreen if you’ve got more than one trail layer operating and that is what it’s all about, trying to portray to the people watching that you’re going about legitimate business. Obviously, it’s important for the trail layers to know where you’re going to go. Give them a brief beforehand, tell them what your order of draw is and if it changes for any reason let them know. You’ve got to have clear communication.

.....

It’s probably just as well to have something foul smelling on the end of the drag just in case an anti leaps out from behind a gateway and grabs hold of it and says, ‘This is just a clean hanky’ or something and of course the other thing you don’t want your trail layer getting mixed up with the, you know, stop at the meet or if there’s a check or wherever the hounds are and he’s stood in the middle discussing the next rule with the huntsman and the lure is just dangling down in front old Dreadnought’s nose and he’s paying no attention to it. Pretty obvious it’s no good for anything, so that is another very important factor to bear in mind while you’re doing all of this.
.....


We need to have clear and visible trail laying going on on the day and it needs to be as plausible as possible.
 

shortstuff99

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Currently Cambridgeshire! (or where ever I fancy)!
I just can't comprehend why hunts are so determined to keep killing foxes, we are told all the time how it's actually about having a nice day out, being with friends etc and not about killing, so why are they bothered about killing then? I can see why general members of the public think hunt people just enjoy the killing.

If I honest I've been hunting a couple of times and will never go again, the people were rude, unfriendly, unhelpful and frankly snobbish (and this is a famous hunt) they do nothing for their image and perpetuate the stereotype.
 

ycbm

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My favourite bit is the advice to use a different phone to communicate about the hunt organisation than the one you use to boast about your illegal exploits, in case the police take your phone as evidence.

I think that (and most of the advice in the podcasts) is called conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and it's a lot more serious a crime than a bit of illegal hunting!
.
 

ycbm

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The allegation that they were organised to discuss covering up unlawful activities is totally incorrect and can only be made by taking a few individual short comments completely out of context.
They may not have been organised to do it, but they certainly did it! There is no way you can take the advice to use two phones out of context.

As you will be aware hunts face almost daily spurious allegations of illegal activity from anti hunt saboteurs and professional activists, and therefore not only have to operate within the law, but also have to be able overtly to demonstrate that they are doing so at any time.
Yes, but the webinar advice was about how to realistically fake that overt demonstration.

We would encourage you all to avoid commenting on these allegations on Social media or other public forums"
I'm not surprised!
 

Tiddlypom

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This will bring hunting down. It will take time, but there is no recovery from this.

It is all there in the webinars, with an eminent panel of hunting folk chaired by Lord Mancroft – Conservative Peer, Chair of the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) and former Chair of the Countryside Alliance, on how to hoodwink observers into believing that genuine trails are being laid and followed when they are not.

There were over 100 participants, mostly masters of hounds, listening in and learning from the webinars.

I remember that Alec, who used to be on HHO, once said that hunting would eventually be the author of its own demise. So true.

I hope that the person(s) who leaked the webinars has been able to cover their tracks. There will be some very angry people trying to track them down.
 
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Tiddlypom

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the sound of silence coming from the pro's is deafening !
They will have gone to ground, and will be following the advice given out by the Hunting Office:-

‘We would encourage you all to avoid commenting on these allegations on Social media or other public forums"’

So it’s only us hunting sceptics left commenting.

Being naive, I used to believe the trail hunt lies. Had my eyes opened a few years ago now, though, but even then I didn’t realise how complicit and involved the whole hunting scene was. I had presumed that it was just a few rogue packs, not that it was led from the top down.
 

Sandstone1

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This will bring hunting down. It will take time, but there is no recovery from this.

It is all there in the webinars, with an eminent panel of hunting folk chaired by Lord Mancroft – Conservative Peer, Chair of the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) and former Chair of the Countryside Alliance, on how to hoodwink observers into believing that genuine trails are being laid and followed when they are not.

There were over 100 participants, mostly masters of hounds, listening in and learning from the webinars.

I remember that Alec, who used to be on HHO, once said that hunting would eventually be the author of its own demise. So true.

I hope that the person(s) who leaked the webinars has been able to cover their tracks. There will be some very angry people trying to track them down.
I certainly hope it does bring hunting down. Its long overdue. So many people breaking the law in full view of the police. I cant see how they can recover from this. They will be try to sweep it under the carpet but I cant see how when its all clearly there.
 

Wishfilly

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They will have gone to ground, and will be following the advice given out by the Hunting Office:-

‘We would encourage you all to avoid commenting on these allegations on Social media or other public forums"’

So it’s only us hunting sceptics left commenting.

Being naive, I used to believe the trail hunt lies. Had my eyes opened a few years ago now, though, but even then I didn’t realise how complicit and involved the whole hunting scene was. I had presumed that it was just a few rogue packs, not that it was led from the top down.
I sort of felt the same.

I also believed the police when they said the hunting act was just impossible to enforce. But now I wonder if the will simply isn't there.
 

DabDab

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Hmm....
Well they could just about get the benefit of the doubt in the first (with the possible exception of a couple of sentences from the police officer), but the second one...well it just is what it is really.

I just hope other areas of equestrianism don't get caught up in too much in the ever plummeting reputation of hunting.
 

Tiddlypom

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I also believed the police when they said the hunting act was just impossible to enforce. But now I wonder if the will simply isn't there.
According to the speaker on transcript 2, the hunts are not finding the police to be overly amenable in supporting them. I am sure that the police Wildlife Liason Officers will be taking due note of being described as ‘raving antis’ ;).

If you haven’t got any viable trail laying evidence how on earth are we going to refute these allegations? And this is increasingly come to light with this now that the police are not prepared to support us when we have problems with saboteurs, if we can’t prove quite conclusively that we’re not taking the mickey and just using this as a shield.
.....


Fair to say, 95% of police officers that you’re going to come into contact with out hunting have no knowledge of hunting offences, they won’t be overly interested, they’ve generally been out on patrol, they’ve either fallen across you or they’ve had a report that there’s some hunting, could they go along and have a look.

They’re probably going to turn up, ask you what you’re doing - if you can show them the bit of trail or hunting, people laying trails, they’ll disappear and go away again.

The other 5%, you’re going to get pretty much a split down the middle, half of them are going to be keen hunting folk, there are police officers who are keen hunting folk, the other half are going to be raving antis.

The problems for the hunt are most of the raving antis are the ones that have gone on to become Wildlife Liaison Officers and they’re the ones, if you get a retrospective inquiry or report from the antis, monitors, they send the videos in, it gets referred to the wildlife liaison officers, they’re the ones that are going to be investigating it.
 

The Jokers Girl

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I've always avoided the hunting section of this forum as the amount of pro bloodsport hunt posters sickens me with how open and brazen they are. It's interesting to see that none of the cowardly hunters that usually post are posting on this thread defending the transcripts and explaining what was "actually" meant. I hope this is the demise of the illegal bloodsport in the UK. We can only hope.
 
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