what most of us knew already :)

[Tiddlypom]

Would this impact drag hunting though? Surely not?

It’s got to be a possibility.

It would be much simpler to impose an outright ban on all hunting with hounds than to try to twiddle with the Hunting Act to allow trail hunting to continue but making it more difficult for illegal hunting to take place.

Now the determination by the Hunting Office to circumvent the Hunting Act has been laid bare, anything could happen.

Bloodhounds (hunting the clean boot) would IMHO be the safest version, as it’s the most easy to police. But who knows.

 

[ycbm]

Bloodhounds and a runner are a slower game than fox hounds with scent laid by a runner and a much slower day than when the scent is laid by horses instead of having to wait for a runner. There's no need for drag hunting to disappear.

I've been with drag hunts, two in particular for lengthy spells and I've never seen a sab. I think it's quite easy for "trail hunting" to becomeas free of sabs as drag packs. (Yes I do know there have been isolated incidents of idiots sabbing a drag, they were stupid mistakes and rare).

First they need to lay a scent of sufficient strength to hold the hounds and stop them being diverted by fox scent. Second they need to train their hounds in recall to the same level as drag packs do. I've seen drag packs pick up fox scent but they never got more than half a field before they were stopped. Then they need to tell anyone who asks where the trail is being laid. If they give maps to the sabs the day before, it won't be many outings before they are too bored to attend.

The end of drag hunting will be the urbanisation of the countryside, I think, not the stupidity of people continuing to hunt illegally.
.

 

[Flagstad]

I've always avoided the hunting section of this forum as the amount of pro bloodsport hunt posters sickens me with how open and brazen they are. It's interesting to see that none of the cowardly hunters that usually post are posting on this thread defending the transcripts and explaining what was "actually" meant. I hope this is the demise of the illegal bloodsport in the UK. We can only hope.

To be fair, this is Horse & HOUND.

Old post, I know, but maybe you're still here?

 

[Pedantic]

This country has a nasty culture of "selective" law enforcement, looks like illegal hunting being one of them, to be fair, if it's ok to let one minority break laws because it's "their culture", and take the p***, then other minorities are going to want equal treatment.
I don't like bloodsports, as I consider myself an animal lover.

 

[limestonelil]

This country has a nasty culture of "selective" law enforcement, looks like illegal hunting being one of them, to be fair, if it's ok to let one minority break laws because it's "their culture", and take the p***, then other minorities are going to want equal treatment.
I don't like bloodsports, as I consider myself an animal lover.

I think that's it in a nutshell , as in 'selective' over law enforcement.
I don't like bloodsports either.

 

[SantaVera]

I just can't comprehend why hunts are so determined to keep killing foxes, we are told all the time how it's actually about having a nice day out, being with friends etc and not about killing, so why are they bothered about killing then? I can see why general members of the public think hunt people just enjoy the killing.

If I honest I've been hunting a couple of times and will never go again, the people were rude, unfriendly, unhelpful and frankly snobbish (and this is a famous hunt) they do nothing for their image and perpetuate the stereotype.

The people I know who hunt give me the impression that they do so as they are anti labour government and refuse to obey the law they brought in. Same with smoking I've seen local hunt members totally ignore no smoking signs and some don't bother wearing seatbelts either, they see it all as an afront to their civil liberties and aren't going to change their ways.

 

[Irish-Only]

The people I know who hunt give me the impression that they do so as they are anti labour government and refuse to obey the law they brought in. Same with smoking I've seen local hunt members totally ignore no smoking signs and some don't bother wearing seatbelts either, they see it all as an afront to their civil liberties and aren't going to change their ways.

Goodness, that is a sweeping biased and prejudiced statement. The "people you know", what percentage of the hunting community might that be? I'm anti labour Govt because I don't like their policies and what they have done when in Govt previously. I smoke, but only where allowed. I drive and always wear a seat belt. Would you come out with a statement like that if you were talking about 'people of colour'?

 

[Pedantic]

Goodness, that is a sweeping biased and prejudiced statement. The "people you know", what percentage of the hunting community might that be? I'm anti labour Govt because I don't like their policies and what they have done when in Govt previously. I smoke, but only where allowed. I drive and always wear a seat belt. Would you come out with a statement like that if you were talking about 'people of colour'?

I didn't read that as a sweeping statement, they said the people " they know", and why shouldn't anyone be able to speak of "their" personal experiences truthfully.

 

[Clodagh]

Absolutely. As I’m pro trail hunting I smoke in primary schools and never wear a seat belt. Where’s a scientific study when you need one?

Eta and they only hunt as they are anti Labour? So even if they didn’t ride, enjoy hound work and being out in the countryside their primary driver is being anti Labour?

 

[Fred66]

Absolutely. As I’m pro trail hunting I smoke in primary schools and never wear a seat belt. Where’s a scientific study when you need one?

Eta and they only hunt as they are anti Labour? So even if they didn’t ride, enjoy hound work and being out in the countryside their primary driver is being anti Labour?

Love this, and that makes all those against fox hunting nazis and antisemitic

 

[SantaVera]

Labour victory. Great news, let's hope they ban trail hunting asap.

 

[Sandstone1]

Labour victory. Great news, let's hope they ban trail hunting asap.

I really hope so.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The chap on the right might marshal his parliamentary party to try and block attempts to ban hunting. Bit short on the numbers required to make a difference, though.

This pic has been widely shared by the antis in the run up to the election. Those smirks make my skin crawl.

 

[SEL]

I think it is really sad that trail hunting will go. Not surprised because the hunting community didn't take the ban seriously, but sad nevertheless.

Genuine trail hunting should have been properly supported and encouraged with those that ignored the ban dealt with.

 

[ihatework]

Labour victory. Great news, let's hope they ban trail hunting asap.

Quite honestly I couldn’t give a flying fig about hunting any more. I would rather no more parliamentary time spent on it. Not because I’m pro hunting but because we have bigger priorities like NHS, Schools, Employment, National Defence.
Oh and policing - that they can discuss and if police forces are better funded they may have more chance of applying the law.
But time and money spent banning an activity that doesn’t hunt foxes if carried out in accordance with the law …. No thanks.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Labour victory. Great news, let's hope they ban trail hunting asap.

Fingers crossed too. Should be a quick win, obviously there's a lot of other things that need fixing but hopefully before too long we won't be hearing anymore horror stories about "accidents".

Bet they still try and do it, if they are willing to still go for foxes, they will ignore this too

 

[Clodagh]

Quite honestly I couldn’t give a flying fig about hunting any more. I would rather no more parliamentary time spent on it. Not because I’m pro hunting but because we have bigger priorities like NHS, Schools, Employment, National Defence.
Oh and policing - that they can discuss and if police forces are better funded they may have more chance of applying the law.
But time and money spent banning an activity that doesn’t hunt foxes if carried out in accordance with the law …. No thanks.

Sort out mental health funding and surely the other services will mainly be able to cope.
But no, posters on here would still rather hunting was the main priority.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I doubt that the new government wants to spend much parliamentary time debating the finer points of hunting either. I’ve presumed that when Labour got in, and certainly if with a large majority, that they’ll ban all forms of hunting with a pack of hounds inc drag as well as trail.

They well know the determination of the well connected law breakers to continue to exploit any leeway to keep on hunting, so to just ban the lot would be easier all round, and make enforcing the ban much easier.

With a majority that large it can get through.

 

[Sandstone1]

I doubt that the new government wants to spend much parliamentary time debating the finer points of hunting either. I’ve presumed that when Labour got in, and certainly if with a large majority, that they’ll ban all forms of hunting with a pack of hounds inc drag as well as trail.

They well know the determination of the well connected law breakers to continue to exploit any leeway to keep on hunting, so to just ban the lot would be easier all round, and make enforcing the ban much easier.

With a majority that large it can get through.

The law breakers will only have themselves to blame, had the rules been followed and true trail hunting been stuck to and not used as a poor smokescreen for fox hunting they would not be where we are now.

 

[palo1]

I doubt that the new government wants to spend much parliamentary time debating the finer points of hunting either. I’ve presumed that when Labour got in, and certainly if with a large majority, that they’ll ban all forms of hunting with a pack of hounds inc drag as well as trail.

They well know the determination of the well connected law breakers to continue to exploit any leeway to keep on hunting, so to just ban the lot would be easier all round, and make enforcing the ban much easier.

With a majority that large it can get through.

I do not think there will be any appetite, politically speaking to do this, nor would it be simple in terms of legislation. You could not easily prevent people exercising a number of dogs on private land, which is what would be needed to ban drag hunting and blood hounding, unless of course, you made it illegal for a dog to follow any laid scent...exemptions would be needed for many other activities and I believe it would be seen as unenforceable and a waste of parliamentary time. It may be difficult to tack this on to The Hunting Act too and a new act relating to dogs more generally would be a very unpopular new can of worms!! It would be seen as incredibly illiberal and entirely unnecessary apart from anything else. The Labour Party have shifted their position on this matter quite considerably and that has caused real ructions at LACS as a result. I do not think KS or anyone else in govt thinks this is a good use of the new gov't s time! There is existing law to deal with illegal hunting, which the last Labour Government brought in; the police need support to enforce it if need be but again, for the vast majority of people this will not be a priority for police funding!

 

[Clodagh]

I do not think there will be any appetite, politically speaking to do this, nor would it be simple in terms of legislation. You could not easily prevent people exercising a number of dogs on private land, which is what would be needed to ban drag hunting and blood hounding, unless of course, you made it illegal for a dog to follow any laid scent...exemptions would be needed for many other activities and I believe it would be seen as unenforceable and a waste of parliamentary time. It may be difficult to tack this on to The Hunting Act too and a new act relating to dogs more generally would be a very unpopular new can of worms!! It would be seen as incredibly illiberal and entirely unnecessary apart from anything else. The Labour Party have shifted their position on this matter quite considerably and that has caused real ructions at LACS as a result. I do not think KS or anyone else in govt thinks this is a good use of the new gov't s time! There is existing law to deal with illegal hunting, which the last Labour Government brought in; the police need support to enforce it if need be but again, for the vast majority of people this will not be a priority for police funding!

It’s the thought of banning sports like man trailing, or scentwork that would be inevitable, sad for them to be casualties.

 

[ycbm]

I do not think there will be any appetite, politically speaking to do this, nor would it be simple in terms of legislation. You could not easily prevent people exercising a number of dogs on private land, which is what would be needed to ban drag hunting and blood hounding, unless of course, you made it illegal for a dog to follow any laid scent...exemptions would be needed for many other activities and I believe it would be seen as unenforceable and a waste of parliamentary time. It may be difficult to tack this on to The Hunting Act too and a new act relating to dogs more generally would be a very unpopular new can of worms!! It would be seen as incredibly illiberal and entirely unnecessary apart from anything else. The Labour Party have shifted their position on this matter quite considerably and that has caused real ructions at LACS as a result. I do not think KS or anyone else in govt thinks this is a good use of the new gov't s time! There is existing law to deal with illegal hunting, which the last Labour Government brought in; the police need support to enforce it if need be but again, for the vast majority of people this will not be a priority for police funding!

I think you might be in for a shock. How many hunts can put in a day's hunting without using public roads and rights of way? I've been out with 4 bloodhound/drag packs and 3 fox packs since 1985 and they all used public roads between legs/draws. It doesn't feel difficult to frame a law that would prevent hounds from running loose in public spaces which would make all forms of hunting largely impractical.

There is existing law to deal with illegal hunting,

.

 

[Sandstone1]

I do not think there will be any appetite, politically speaking to do this, nor would it be simple in terms of legislation. You could not easily prevent people exercising a number of dogs on private land, which is what would be needed to ban drag hunting and blood hounding, unless of course, you made it illegal for a dog to follow any laid scent...exemptions would be needed for many other activities and I believe it would be seen as unenforceable and a waste of parliamentary time. It may be difficult to tack this on to The Hunting Act too and a new act relating to dogs more generally would be a very unpopular new can of worms!! It would be seen as incredibly illiberal and entirely unnecessary apart from anything else. The Labour Party have shifted their position on this matter quite considerably and that has caused real ructions at LACS as a result. I do not think KS or anyone else in govt thinks this is a good use of the new gov't s time! There is existing law to deal with illegal hunting, which the last Labour Government brought in; the police need support to enforce it if need be but again, for the vast majority of people this will not be a priority for police fun

We will see...

 

[palo1]

It’s the thought of banning sports like man trailing, or scentwork that would be inevitable, sad for them to be casualties.

Yes, and the training of SAR, police and other scenting dogs, including medical assistance dogs would have to be exemptions to that training and activity which would be time consuming in terms of consultation and drafting of legislation. How on earth could it be enforced too? I mean most dogs put their noses to the ground naturally; would dog owners somehow have to prove they hadn't laid a trail? Certain dog breeds and breeders would find this appallingly difficult to live with but it could be a back door to banning gundogs too I suppose

 

[Sandstone1]

Yes, and the training of SAR, police and other scenting dogs, including medical assistance dogs would have to be exemptions to that training and activity which would be time consuming in terms of consultation and drafting of legislation. How on earth could it be enforced too? I mean most dogs put their noses to the ground naturally; would dog owners somehow have to prove they hadn't laid a trail? Certain dog breeds and breeders would find this appallingly difficult to live with but it could be a back door to banning gundogs too I suppose

Clutching at straws ?? Of course they can ban " Trail hunting" Fox hunters have struggled to prove they HAVE laid a trail. The now Government have said they will ban trail hunting so we will see. I am pretty sure that exemptions will be put in place for Police dogs etc. Illegal fox hunters will struggle to hide a pack of hounds being followed by a field of riders...... Mentioning medical assistance dogs in the same breath is ridiculous .... There is no comparison and you know it. Trail hunting is doomed and its the fault of the idiots who thought they could carry on fox hunting while pretending to trail hunt. Anyway I am not getting wound up and angry about it. Going to enjoy my evening.

 

[palo1]

Clutching at straws ?? Of course they can ban " Trail hunting" Fox hunters have struggled to prove they HAVE laid a trail. The now Government have said they will ban trail hunting so we will see. I am pretty sure that exemptions will be put in place for Police dogs etc. Illegal fox hunters will struggle to hide a pack of hounds being followed by a field of riders...... Mentioning medical assistance dogs in the same breath is ridiculous .... There is no comparison and you know it. Trail hunting is doomed and its the fault of the idiots who thought they could carry on fox hunting while pretending to trail hunt. Anyway I am not getting wound up and angry about it. Going to enjoy my evening.

The thing is, that legislation has to follow quite specific guidelines which often means that unless the law is extremely well framed there would be unintended consequences. I don't think it would be possible to ban people exercising dogs in a group so you would have to specifically ban the following of a scent with dogs in training or exercise: exemptions would have to be made otherwise law becomes untenable under our own regulations etc. It is easy for citizens to be partisan, much less easy for the law which is why we have several checks and balances in the system; so that laws cannot be unfairly applied.

 

[Sandstone1]

The thing is, that legislation has to follow quite specific guidelines which often means that unless the law is extremely well framed there would be unintended consequences. I don't think it would be possible to ban people exercising dogs in a group so you would have to specifically ban the following of a scent with dogs in training or exercise: exemptions would have to be made otherwise law becomes untenable under our own regulations etc. It is easy for citizens to be partisan, much less easy for the law which is why we have several checks and balances in the system; so that laws cannot be unfairly applied.

You mean like people using trail hunting to hunt fox?

 

[Clodagh]

I think you might be in for a shock. How many hunts can put in a day's hunting without using public roads and rights of way? I've been out with 4 bloodhound/drag packs and 3 fox packs since 1985 and they all used public roads between legs/draws. It doesn't feel difficult to frame a law that would prevent hounds from running loose in public spaces which would make all forms of hunting largely impractical.




.

But even shepherds for instance have groups of dogs running free. Gundogs too. I accept shooting will follow hunting and go but surely you can’t ban using dogs to round up sheep?
Accept you could tighten legislation to make it an offence to cause nuisance.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

It'll be all the associated people with the group of hounds that'll make it clear it's not just a group of dogs being exercised - all the followers etc

Usually people exercising dogs in a group are on foot as well....

 

[maya2008]

Trail hunting is specific to foxhounds. So perhaps using that they could write some legislation. Exercising foxhounds with more than x number of people on horses accompanying (or similar). Would take out drag hunting too, but leave bloodhound packs safe.