What to do - persevere or move on?

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starfish8

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Apologies for the long post…

I’ve had my horse a year – she’s my first horse although I have part-loaned before, I wanted to wait until finances truly allowed. She was bought with the intention of doing a bit of everything – low level dressage, hacking, beach rides, low level jumping, occasional XC schooling etc. She was sold as such – the type that is kind enough to dial it down to begin with, but step up when I was ready to do more.

When she first arrived at the yard she was a pain – bolshy on the ground, did not like coming in by herself (e.g. to be ridden), to ride always felt as if she was a bit too on her toes – she wanted to run rather than work forward nicely, was generally more interested in what was going on outside the school than in it. We had some issues with mounting – she was a real fidget. Oh and scared of the dark – I spent months lunging of an evening trying to get her used to working under floodlights.

Time, the dentist and a new saddle helped some of these things – I do genuinely think the saddle was an issue as the mounting resolved itself almost overnight with the new one. Her teeth hadn’t been properly cared for so that can’t have helped either.

We had to move yards a month ago & I fully expected her to revert to the stressy beast she was to begin with. She has however proved me wrong, settled in really nicely & is schooling nicely – we’re making progress, the rushing has improved, she’s happy enough working under the floodlights rather than daylight. We struggle with right lead canter but its slowly improving. The mounting issue has resumed – I have a saddler and the dentist booked for next week. One incident of bolshy behaviour on the ground, I put this down to her being in season & not wanting to leave her field mate.

I’m now getting to the stage where I want to get out and about as have come a long way in terms of my own confidence issues. I’m under no illusion that these have contributed to the issues we’ve had – a more confident rider/handler would probably have solved all these issues far sooner.

Saturday we borrowed the lorry to go out to a local dressage show – just entered the walk & trot class. She went on the lorry eventually – showed up a lack of manners but she did go on, and by herself. Did not travel well – shouted the whole way there. Opened the ramp, she was a hot sweaty shaky might-explode-at-any-moment mess. For safety reasons, we opted to abandon the test, shut the ramp up and went home. On arrival home, she came off the lorry quietly, dripping wet – was turned out in the sandschool & had a wander round and a roll – chilled as anything.

My dilemma is this – I want to get out and do things, have fun that in all honesty I’m not having now. There’s only so much schooling at home that I can do, and I can’t reasonably rely on other people wanting to come out, and help when there all the time. I know that there are horses out there who would be a lot easier – lovely as my mare is, she’s not the easiest and in all honesty is probably better suited to a ballsy teenager who wants to go out competing every weekend than someone like me. I love her, tricky as she can be, but I don’t always feel comfortable doing things with her – I'm nervous of how she might behave. I still have a lot of demons that she doesn’t really help with. But I love her – she’s a sweet horse, just a prone to being a bit of a diva. I just don’t know if we have the partnership.

Do I persevere, in the knowledge that she may be better suited to a different home and that we may not get to where I want to be. Or do I sell her, look for something easier and take the risk of her ending up in the wrong hands further down the line.

Looking for some objective opinions – I’ve tried to be as unbiased as possible.
 
If it was me I would persevere - until at least you have been out a fair few times and have established if she is the horse for you or not. You haven't said how old she is or how much she had done before you bought her so it could be that she is still fairly inexperienced.

Personally I would have asked the organiser if there was a place I could lunge and then unloaded her with a bridle and lunge line and got her moving. If there was nowhere to lunge I would still have unloaded her and kept her moving around the show ground until she settled.

Practice loading at home - give her a few pony nuts when she is on board. If it was the first time you had taken her out then there is a fair chance that you were a bit stressed and this won't have helped the situation. Practice loading her every day until she loads without any issue and then carry on for a few days. Have a few practice loads before you next take her out and also go for a few practice drives. Make sure the driver takes things slowly and also check the inside of your transport for rattles and also the floor.

Some horses don't travel well with boots on so it is worth experimenting.

I know you don't want to rely on friends but do take an experienced person for the first few times you take her out. Your instructor would probably be ideal if they were willing to do this (obviously offer to pay them for their time).
 
Only you will be able to decide whether you should stick with her or not. But I don't think you should let one bad travelling experience put you off, if you are generally pleased with how she is progressing. A year is not a long time when it comes to forming a partnership.
It sounds from your post like she hasn't travelled since you've had her. So it was a lorry she didn't know, and she had maybe lost her 'sea legs'. I would have got her off the box and ridden her around, at least, at the show, but that doesn't matter now.

My little horse was terrible to travel in the beginning. She hadn't done a lot, so she would get on the box, tremble the whole way, and get off the other end in a white lather. I just did load and loads of little journeys until she worked out that it was OK and now she's a super traveller, arrives cool as a cucumber and I barely hear her move in the box at all.

Check a few things out first - was the drive a smooth and easy one for her? Has she adequate ventilation in the box? Did you over rug her at all? has she got hay? Booted according to what she is used to? Is the floor slippery or can she grip well? If it's a big lorry could you pop a friend on with her for reassurance?

There are no guarantees with horses so even if you decide she's not for you, you might well encounter similar issues with the next one. Being prepared to tackle them quietly and patiently will help, whether it's with this horse or another.
 
To be fair to her, it sounds like it was the first time she had been to a show in a while so I would perhaps have got her out and had a walk about and at least stayed until she calmed down rather than going straight home and not getting her off the lorry. If she was mine I would hire a school somewhere else so she has to be boxed there, even if you just get there and lunge or get on and have a walk about. You won't have the pressure of keeping to a tight schedule and no pressure. You will probably find that after a few times doing this she will realise that there is nothing to worry about and chill out.

Another thing to think about - has she travelled in a lorry before? She may have been only travelled in a trailer before so being in a lorry facing a different direction and having to balance herself differently could take some getting used to.
 
Your post was fairly detailed but missed out a few key points, how old is she? is she ok out hacking and what does your instructor think of the relationship you have with her?

I usually think 12 months is long enough to really know a horse but I think you probably bought a horse that was not as experienced or established as you needed, misdescribed by the previous owners, who did not get her teeth done regularly so they were not as exterienced/ caring as you may have thought, would be my take on it, if you want to persist then you need a plan to move forward part of that plan needs to be going off the yard for a lesson/ clinic/ practise day with no pressure to compete a fair few times to see if she will settle.
You do need help taking a horse out when you have little experience yourself, if the horse is tricky then you may need to pay your instructor to go along to give you support and that would be the same even with a different horse until you know how they will behave, having a really confident experienced person involved can make a huge difference to your progress, if you are trying to deal with everything pretty much alone then not only will it take longer it may mean you never "win" on some issues.
I certainly would not have turned round without even getting the horse unloaded and walked about, a few minutes walking may have allowed her to chill and for you to have at least ridden her, there are times when it may be the safest option but someone experienced with you could have made the difference between a totally wasted day and a successful one with a big confidence boost rather than another loss of confidence for you both.
 
is there any way to establish what set her off? Was it that she hadn't travelled in a while, was she by herself, was footing ok in box? was driver a good driver? sounds stupid, but theres been good horses turn into bad travellers because drivers weren't good around turns.

I have one who is a bad traveller but he got better with short journeys where there were fun things like beachrides at the end. Did that for a while and then he was fine.

Set it up so both of you win. You need to build up your confidence and trust in her when you are out. One of mine was a stressy nightmare and i had lost confidence in us as a team, so for the first few trips we did no pressure inhand shows and just had fun. So the worry of him being ridden was taken away. It got us both used to eachother in a strange environment, without my ridden nerves getting worse. After a few times i'd pop up and walk round the grounds on him. Gradually it was ok and now he's fine to ride at shows. Get someone with you to pop on her if you aren't 100%.

Don't write her off yet. A year is no time, and once she adjusts to getting out and about she might surprise you.

It would be of more benefit to you to work through your confidence issues in general. Have you tried any of the NLP style books, there are some great ones aimed at schooling etc. I had a very bad accident and they were great for getting my confidence back. Also doing groundwork exercises and handling exercises are fantastic, and they solve a lot of the ridden issues. I did a few sessions with a old horseman and he was fantastic, completely got me and the horse working together, and really simple exercises.
 
She’s 8 – was in an RC home before I got her, so I think has been out and about a bit. She knows how to go on & off a lorry/trailer, just throws her weight around a bit before she decides she will. She has travelled before with company since I’ve had her, on the same lorry - she still doesn’t walk straight up the ramp but will go on and with company travels nicely. I’m not much of a hacker – again the nerves – although she has been sensible the couple of times we’ve been out.

I agree, the best thing to do would have been to get her off and make her work – however I just didn’t have the confidence to do it given that she looked like she would knock me flying in her haste to get down the ramp & disappear into the distance. I know all these issues can be worked through – my uncertainty is whether I’m the person to do it. She takes confidence from a rider/handler and mine deserts me when something looks like it might go wrong.

I’ve some spare holiday days so will be arranging with my instructor to meet us at the same venue as the weekend to see what she’s like. Instructor is very experienced & will make her get on with it.

Driver at the weekend is very experienced & a great driver of horses but unfortunately not physically up to taking the shaking snorting wally off me while I pull myself together.
 
So she was only 7 when you got her, old enough but still probably not done a huge amount, the previous owners were probably very much more experienced and she just got on with things.

If you never hack out you are seriously limiting her life experience opportunities and contributing to her stressing when she does go somewhere different, if you really cannot cope with hacking her at least once a week then can you find someone capable who will do so for you, getting her out in a different environment regularly by hacking can make so much difference to them and the way they cope with life.

Taking her out for a lesson is useful, get her to unload and help get her ready if you are unsure, all horses take confidence from their handler, some are confident enough but not many will be the same at a competition as they are at home even the quiet older ones can get lit up and excited so require extra care to handle them.

I don't think the traveling is your problem it has just brought your whole situation into perspective, that you have a horse you are not getting much out of, have not got a really good relationship with yet and you need to take action to either work through it or set a limit on how long to continue if you don't make progress.
 
You're quite right - I think her previous owners probably were a lot more experienced than me, yet simultaneously didn't care quite enough to get her teeth done etc properly. I know that the lack of hacking is an issue - unfortunately just as we started making short trips out we were forced to move yards so are just finding our feet again.

I don't feel I'm getting a lot out of her, and in fairness she's probably not getting much out of me. We can practise travelling, loading etc until the cows come home - I'm willing to put the time and effort in but I don't know whether practise and repetition will solve the relationship issue to the extent that I ever feel quite comfortable to put her on a lorry and take her out somewhere fun, the beach, a sponsored ride, a show, without the worry of 'what if'. That's my issue.
 
Only you can decide if you want to keep her or not...

I bought a Tb last year. Never been in a trailer, never been out to a show etc. He kicked hell out of the trailer. Was horrendous when we arrived at the venue. Was an absolute arse to tack up. Was naughty to lead to the warm up. Was just generally a stress head. I did wonder what I had bought and if I could actually do anything with him. But I absolutely adore him and was prepared to give it time and patience. I can now load him on my own. He travels well. I can get him ready on my own at a show. He can still be a little naughty ti lead to the warm up but that is 90% better!! He is getting better each time he goes out. If you really like your horse then I would persevere over winter, get her out as much as possible, even if you don't do much the other end. Unload, have a tootle round in hand or ridden. Come home. Take baby steps. If you don't particularly like her as a horse then perhaps moving her on would be best for you both.
 
I'm not sure if it's a "thing" here (I'm American and our shows are a bit different), but I spend months just trailering my youngster to a competition and hacking her around the ground and using the warm up school for a nominal "grounds fee." Last year she had an injury and we were on walk-only rides for a couple of months so I started trailering to national parks with a friend for outdoor walking, it took 3-4 trips before she realized this was also nothing to fuss about. I will say the more you do, and more often, the better it can get.

But at the same time, you are paying a lot of money and it sounds like not having much fun. I would weigh carefully, but I'd say a year is a long enough time to know what you're dealing with as far as personality of the horse. It sounds like you'd enjoy a calmer and more experienced horse more. :-/
 
I'm usually one for saying persevere but in this case i dont think she sounds like the right horse for you, i really dont think she sounds like a bad horse atall just simply not suited to you, it would be a shame for you to lose any more confidence and end up resenting her. Obviously there are very few genuinely perfect horses out there, most of them have some quirks/issues in some way but if your not taking much pleasure in the horse and you feel your missing out on doing the things you wanted her for in the first place then what's the point?You've done well to persevere this long given that shes your first horse but sounds like an older school master type would be more suited to you
 
ohmissbrittany said:
I'm not sure if it's a "thing" here (I'm American and our shows are a bit different), but I spend months just trailering my youngster to a competition and hacking her around the ground and using the warm up school for a nominal "grounds fee." Last year she had an injury and we were on walk-only rides for a couple of months so I started trailering to national parks with a friend for outdoor walking, it took 3-4 trips before she realized this was also nothing to fuss about. I will say the more you do, and more often, the better it can get.

But at the same time, you are paying a lot of money and it sounds like not having much fun. I would weigh carefully, but I'd say a year is a long enough time to know what you're dealing with as far as personality of the horse. It sounds like you'd enjoy a calmer and more experienced horse more. :-/
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We may do the same with a youngster but the OP did not buy a young horse she bought one that she was told was experienced, quiet and suitable as a first horse for someone who was not confident, the OP lacks the ability to give this mare the grounding she does not have.
The more I have read the more I think it is probably never going to be the horse the OP needs and wants, that she can really enjoy and that it may be best to seriously consider selling her on and looking for a less stressy horse that will be fun to ride and move on with her riding, life is too short and horses too expensive to continue with one that is not right, there is no reason to feel guilty if you do move her on to a more suitable home so that you can get a more suitable horse.
 
I think a year is plenty of time to know get to grips with her OP.
Confidence and trust are very fragile things and can be destroyed so easily. I don't think you would be wrong to sell her and buy something older/calmer/more experienced.
I feel for you as I have had a horse I loved the bones of but ultimately I was wayyyy overhorsed and he scared me. I still keep in touch with his new owner who is much younger and braver than me and it's fab to see what they have achieved together :) I bought another that I rushed into and hated so sold him.
The horse I have now is everything I wasn't looking for...a mare (I prefer geldings), 13 years old (I wanted something around 9), 15.3hh (I like my horses bigger, preferably 16.2 plus)...but she is everything I NEED and believe me that makes one hell of a difference:)
 
I would be inclined to call it a day. I will get shot down for this but it sounds like you brought a nice first horse and now your starting to ruin it with your lack of confidence ... not a nice thing, not your fault and apologies if it sounds harsh. To get on track with this mare you need to find that confidence and start doing what you want to do with her and for her to fall into line or you need to work out a way of blagging it until it comes because the more she goes on like this the more difficult to sell she will be leaving you with a horse you cant sell and your confidence even lower and life is too short to be miserable.

Not an easy one OP but practice and repetition will make her and things easier. Good luck.
 
Antw23uk said:
I would be inclined to call it a day. I will get shot down for this but it sounds like you brought a nice first horse and now your starting to ruin it with your lack of confidence ... not a nice thing, not your fault and apologies if it sounds harsh. To get on track with this mare you need to find that confidence and start doing what you want to do with her and for her to fall into line or you need to work out a way of blagging it until it comes because the more she goes on like this the more difficult to sell she will be leaving you with a horse you cant sell and your confidence even lower and life is too short to be miserable.

Not an easy one OP but practice and repetition will make her and things easier. Good luck.
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I think it sounds harsh, the horse was only 7 when purchased which still makes her young and not a truly established first horse, she arrived with her teeth in a mess, was tricky from day 1, which is not the sign of a relaxed first horse, had several other issues which the OP has tried to improve that are more due to greeness than anything else, yes her lack of confidence will not have helped but to say she is ruining it is not really fair, for people with no fear it is so easy to blame others for damaging horses but in my experience a really well established horse will not regress so much that they become difficult in nearly every way.

I have had numerous horses arrive here over the years and most will settle quickly if they have been well educated and seen plenty of life, they usually have a few moments of testing but quickly go back to being the nice sensible horse they were, this mare sounds more like a competition horse than a nice steady first horse for a nervous person and however much you try and blag it she will be unlikely to become that quiet type the OP needs, she sounds overhorsed and in need of help so she can move on.
 
be positive said:
I think it sounds harsh, the horse was only 7 when purchased which still makes her young and not a truly established first horse, she arrived with her teeth in a mess, was tricky from day 1, which is not the sign of a relaxed first horse, had several other issues which the OP has tried to improve that are more due to greeness than anything else, yes her lack of confidence will not have helped but to say she is ruining it is not really fair, for people with no fear it is so easy to blame others for damaging horses but in my experience a really well established horse will not regress so much that they become difficult in nearly every way.

I have had numerous horses arrive here over the years and most will settle quickly if they have been well educated and seen plenty of life, they usually have a few moments of testing but quickly go back to being the nice sensible horse they were, this mare sounds more like a competition horse than a nice steady first horse for a nervous person and however much you try and blag it she will be unlikely to become that quiet type the OP needs, she sounds overhorsed and in need of help so she can move on.
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Yep, thought you would!
 
I'm afraid I'm another who thinks that until you can get your confidence levels up you are not going to go forward with your mare, not the mares fault or yours just not suited at the moment . It sounds like she needs to get out and about in general not just for competition but needs a competent confident person to do this with.
 
Antw23uk said:
Yep, thought you would!
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I have probably trained a lot more horses and riders than you have so have more insight into what is required to make a successful partnership, the horse is 50% and if you start with the wrong one it can be very challenging to make it work, sometimes it is better to move on and start again than to continue when it is not improving, 12 months is long enough to know where you are going and not too soon to say enough is enough.
 
be positive said:
I have probably trained a lot more horses and riders than you have so have more insight into what is required to make a successful partnership, the horse is 50% and if you start with the wrong one it can be very challenging to make it work, sometimes it is better to move on and start again than to continue when it is not improving, 12 months is long enough to know where you are going and not too soon to say enough is enough.
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I agree with you. You just say it nicer than me!
 
Thanks for all you replies.

I do think 'ruined' is a bit harsh - as she is without doubt a much more polite horse at home than first arrived, she's much nicer to ride - I don't think she's got worse. Could someone else have got there quicker? Absolutely. I know my limitations - I would never claim to be a fantastic rider or horseperson. I know when to ask for help, when I should 'man up' and get on with it by myself and I am kind. I'm just not sure whether my limitation to progress with this particular horse is effectively the nice safe boundary that is at home.

My horse is, to quote a lot of people, a cracker. She is capable of a lot - she moves nicely, jumps well & would do a fantastic BE80/90/100. But, she can also be a bit of a diva - e.g. when presented with a new situation - which I'm sure is in no small part down to my own nerves. We have a great vicious circle going on. As someone else put it I love the bones of her, and the thought of selling her makes me feel sick - but I know that as someone who rides as a hobby, for fun, I shouldn't be nervous every time we go out the front gate because I don't know if she'll overreact this time.
 
starfish8 said:
Thanks for all you replies.

I do think 'ruined' is a bit harsh - as she is without doubt a much more polite horse at home than first arrived, she's much nicer to ride - I don't think she's got worse. Could someone else have got there quicker? Absolutely. I know my limitations - I would never claim to be a fantastic rider or horseperson. I know when to ask for help, when I should 'man up' and get on with it by myself and I am kind. I'm just not sure whether my limitation to progress with this particular horse is effectively the nice safe boundary that is at home.

My horse is, to quote a lot of people, a cracker. She is capable of a lot - she moves nicely, jumps well & would do a fantastic BE80/90/100. But, she can also be a bit of a diva - e.g. when presented with a new situation - which I'm sure is in no small part down to my own nerves. We have a great vicious circle going on. As someone else put it I love the bones of her, and the thought of selling her makes me feel sick - but I know that as someone who rides as a hobby, for fun, I shouldn't be nervous every time we go out the front gate because I don't know if she'll overreact this time.
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My apologies, I wasnt trying to be mean I was trying to say that a lack of confidence from an owner can lead to bad habits and behaviour, sorry.
 
I think you could keep her and with a lot of help get over the issues you've experienced if you really wanted to. However, it sounds to me like you don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
annagain said:
I think you could keep her and with a lot of help get over the issues you've experienced if you really wanted to. However, it sounds to me like you don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Thanks. It's not that I don't want to - I really do. I just don't know if I'm capable, or if it would be in her better interests to be elsewhere.
 
At my lesson today I joked with my trainer about how much I loved my horse. We've had our ups and downs but two years in we have a pretty good partnership, are having fun and I trust him. My trainer said that most of his clients love their horses but many of them would be much happier with something more suitable. Why not ask your trainer for a really honest assessment of your partnership and take it from there?
 
I would personally persevere but I refuse to sell anything so I kind of have to :p

I do wonder if she's playing off of your nerves. For the bolshiness I would lead her in a monty roberts headcollar or something similar, because that can escalate and it doesn't help any situation. If you're not having to worry about her dragging you all over the place, travelling etc becomes much less stressful. There are lots of books and videos about in hand work and handler body language, you probably could benefit from these. Sometimes you just have to fake confidence.

I would try and do a few low pressure outings (not competing) - box to some lessons or to a friend's yard to hack. Then re-assess after maybe 10 trips. Horses are amazing in what they can overcome - repetition is definitely the key. Admittedly, some are just dramatic and you have to adapt to that - only you can decide if it's something you can live with!
 
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starfish8 said:
Thanks. It's not that I don't want to - I really do. I just don't know if I'm capable, or if it would be in her better interests to be elsewhere.
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Wanting to is half the battle. Get plenty of experienced help, don't run before you can walk, accept it may take a bit longer and you'll get there. Second Pigeon's advice about making low key trips - even if you just hack down the road for 5 minutes and back again, do something with her when you get there.
 
If I understood your original post you arrived at a show and were too nervous to unload her because of the state she was in and your lack of confidence. If that is correct I really dont think she's the right horse for you. Yes, with time and practise she may well become easier to handle and more settled in her attitude to things, but it doesnt sound as if you have the confidence to help her get there. Im afraid Im not a fan of mares (although I appreciate thats a completely personal view), Ive always found them to be more opinionated and tricky than a gelding, they are an entire horse after all, just a female one! If it were me, I would try to sell her on to someone with a bit more confidence and look for a more established, slightly older horse, ideally a gelding who has been out and about, got a few t shirts and is more settled on a day to day basis. They are out there, I found one after a hideous experience, yes with a mare!! I dont compete but I do box up on my own and go out and about hacking to different places, dont even give it a second thought these days. Its an absolute joy to be able to do it and Im so glad I made the decision I did. It wasnt so easy to decide at the time and I had a few sleepless nights but looking back, definitely the right move. Good luck either way x
 
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