What would you do? (be nice please)

[Kenzo]

I’m not going to mince my words as I see this as a very black and white subject for me personally, so here’s my penny’s worth….

If you can’t afford 2 horses (one as a pet, one that has a job as in a riding horse) then the only option I think is better, is to have a horse like this PTS.

If a horse has no future as a riding horse and will require medication to keep them comfortable for the rest of their life (for instance) and an owner can’t safeguard their future (selling/loaning/gifting as companion etc and knowing they will always receive special care and the medication they require) then there is no shame in letting a horse go peacefully as a happy younger horse, knowing they had a good life, I think every owner at least owes their horse that one last thing after serving them over the years.

I’m not saying it is an easy thing to, hell no, it would devistate any owner I'm sure, but this country if full of companion horses that can’t be ridden for various reasons and are looking for good long term homes and lets face it, not everyone wants a large companion, usually it’s something smaller and cheaper to keep etc.

I’d hate to think a horse that I once owned ended up being one of these out there because it was no longer any use to me, I’d rather know I ended his life knowing he’d left the world with the dignity and respect he deserves.

But having said all that, I'm referring to a horse that has no definate future as a riding horse and an owner who no matter what can't simply afford to retire one for ther rest of it's life and buy as well as keep another competition/riding horse on the go, you have to be realistic if you can't afford both, it's both or one or the other to me, but that's just my view.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

Wagtail - Equally the horse doesn't care that its been put down. It doesn't even know it has.

Completely agree with you PM/Juno but the OP is female, that means emotions and attachments are incredibly powerful- boys can compartmenatilse these things much easier. I suspect that is the reasoning behind the OP's post.

It's like Blyth Taite said- if you're going to keep livestock you have to be prepared for deadstock. Much easier to comprehend once you have been through it and out the other side!

 

[vicky_sut]

I was in the same postion as you last year with my navicular horse , I had tried barefoot which had helped but she was only just hacking sound and being an exracer she wasnt a happy hacker.
I then retired her for the summer and watched her struggle on the hard ground (ruts in the field) she wasn't footsore but it was the twisting action over the ruts. In the end I decided enough was enough and had her PTS.
She stayed out in the field on the day till it was 'time' then brought her up to the yard, gave her a nice feed then it was done.
It is a hard choice for you to make, I know I did the right thing for my horse. After I felt like a huge weight had been lifted off my shoulders that I hadnt even realised I had been carrying. I am sure you will do what is best for you and your horse.

 

[Enfys]

Hi,

I'm more of a lurker than a poster, but here goes....

I own a 12 year old ISH, who was diagnosed with navicular 2 years ago, tried bare foot and all that jazz. I now have him on bute (1 a day) with advice from the vet, I only hack him quietly but lately I have found he's deteriorating and hasn't felt good. I have never felt happy working him on bute and do not want him on any more just to hack out.

So, in an ideal world I'd retire him, but while I have him, I can't afford another horse. Plus the fact I do not want to just hack out, I'd rather compete too.


So...what would you do?!

If I didn't have the finances, or land, to keep him whilst he was comfortable then I would have him pts. It would be a simple decision - for me.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

So if someone is shot in the back it would not matter because they did not know it was going to happen? The person would not care because they would not know it was going to happen...

Of course human life is different (in human eyes) to animals, but the logic in the argument is the same.

really?!

 

[PaddyMonty]

So if someone is shot in the back it would not matter because they did not know it was going to happen? The person would not care because they would not know it was going to happen...

Of course human life is different (in human eyes) to animals, but the logic in the argument is the same.

Very poor argument. So where do you draw the line regarding life. Guess you never kill a fly, eat meat etc etc.

Just to answer your question though, no the person shot does not care provided they died instantly. How can they? The relatives/friends left behind to deal with the emotional trauma the act created do though.
It is this distinction that needs to be made particularly when discussing this topic.

 

[Enfys]

Wagtail - Equally the horse doesn't care that its been put down. It doesn't even know it has.

Or that it will be.

My thinking exactly Paddy.

About the only thing I agree with that the RSPCA says is in a leaflet I once read (words to the effect of) "Euthanasia is far harder on the owner than the animal"

 

[Curragh]

Thanks very much for all your replies.

My vet said I can put him on up to 3 bute a day, I feel uncomfortable doing this and do not wish to do it, just so he is sound to ride.

I spoke with my farrier earlier and he said we could give wedges or heart bars another go, but doesn't think it will change a great deal.

I did sell him last year and it didn't work out. So I took him back after 10 months and promised him he would be with me till the end

I had my other horse pts in November and I honestly don't think I can go through that again yet. This horse means a great deal to me, carried me safely during my pregnancy and is great with my children, a real character. I just feel like dr death at the moment and that every horse will be galloping for the hills when they see me....

I hate being in this situation

 

[Persephone]

Very poor argument. So where do you draw the line regarding life. Guess you never kill a fly, eat meat etc etc.

Just to answer your question though, no the person shot does not care provided they died instantly. How can they? The relatives/friends left behind to deal with the emotional trauma the act created do though.
It is this distinction that needs to be made particularly when discussing this topic.

^^ Totally agree ^^

And FWIW OP I would probably PTS in your position.

 

[MrsMozart]

If it's a degenerative disease and it's degenerating, then a discussion with the vet for a full and frank view. If non-horsey people are commenting is it likely that upping the Bute to two a day will make any difference I wonder.

My last horse had chronic damage to both suspensory ligaments on her hind legs. It got worse quite quickly and when she was no longer comfortable (and couldn't turn or stale properly) I had her put to sleep, two weeks or so after her return from the AHT.

My little pony last winter, well, due to arthritis, was not in a good way. I looked back and cursed myself for not having him put to sleep then. The start of the year wasn't so good and I thought that he would be gone before this winter, but he has been as sound as a pound! The odd bit of stiffness a couple of times, but he's playing and running with the others and as happy as Larry. His eye says "I'm alive!", and I await the time his eye says enough. Given the mild winter it doesn't look like it's going to come any time soon, but when it does, if it can't be managed, then he'll be put to sleep.

I'm lucky that I can afford to keep four horses at livery (though it does mean no holidays and few meals out, etc.). If I couldn't, then the horse, if it had a degenerative disease that couldn't be managed, it would be put to sleep. If it was field sound, if I loved the horse, I would keep it as a field ornament as I know what it's like to not even be able to keep a horse going even for that, it hurts. A lot.

 

[HashRouge]

Well, I would talk to the vet about upping the bute and probably retire the horse for as long as he was comfortable. I do understand that this might not be possible and I know a lot of people have mentioned having the horse PTS. If you decide that this is the path to go down, why not at least give your horse the summer? Find somewhere he can be out 24/7, don't ride but give him lots of fuss and attention and then see what he is like come September. If he is still deteriorating, you'll know that PTS is the right option but you'll also know that he's had a good, happy summer living like a horse should. But you might find that the time off has done him the world of good and that he's got a new lease of life. It's worth a try, surely? Also, and this may sound a little harsh, but be honest with yourself - is he really deteriorating to the point where he isn't happy with life in general, or just to the point where he can't cope with ridden life but would be happy as a field ornament? Because these are two very different things.
My sister's gelding has navicular and atm we don't know whether he will become riding sound. But we already know that, so long as he can have a good quality of life, we wouldn't have him PTS even if he wasn't really rideable. He's a lovely horse and we want him to have a good life, even if he can't be ridden. We don't have our own land, but we MAY have the option of him living out with my mare in a few months and we'd be happy for him to be a field ornament of that's all his feet could cope with. My sister can only ride him for 10 mins a day in walk atm but she is riding other people's horses for them to make up for it - there are two horses on her yard that she rides regularly, one of which she competed last year, and she rides my mare as well.

 

[Black_Horse_White]

I've had a horse PTS with Ringbone and even if you can see the horse in pain you still feel guilty. And although me & my vet tried everything I still keep asking myself what if? My thoughts are all life is precious even if you have no concept of time, after all it's all we have. In the end OP the decision is between you and your vet, and you should do what's best for your horse firstly. If he is suffering then you need to find the strength to stop it. If he is not suffering maybe you could find cheap grass livery and let him retire.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

I had my other horse pts in November and I honestly don't think I can go through that again yet. This horse means a great deal to me, carried me safely during my pregnancy and is great with my children, a real character. I just feel like dr death at the moment and that every horse will be galloping for the hills when they see me....

From experiance- the first time you put a horse to sleep is the worst. The second time the grief is more intense on the day and the run up but it lasts a much, much shorter time. Take as much time as you need, but you need to talk to your vet about what you are looking for from him, what your beliefs are re: bute and you need to talk to your family and the vet about how you are feeling about pts. they will help you through this decision.

 

[Wagtail]

Very poor argument. So where do you draw the line regarding life. Guess you never kill a fly, eat meat etc etc.

Just to answer your question though, no the person shot does not care provided they died instantly. How can they? The relatives/friends left behind to deal with the emotional trauma the act created do though.
It is this distinction that needs to be made particularly when discussing this topic.

My argument was not intended to be judgemental. It was to illustrate that just because the life taken is unaware, does not make it right. What is right for one person is wrong for another. The OP has to ask herself if she would feel guilty having the horse PTS. If the answer is 'yes' then it is the wrong decision for her. If she would not feel guilty, then it is the right one for her. I would feel guilty unless the animal was not paddock sound and so it would be unthinkable for me. We are all different though. The way we value both human and animal life is different too. As is the reason we have our animals. To some, horses are no more than vehicles to carry out their chosen sport, to others, they are also pets.

 

[Spring Feather]

I think the closer a human comes to death the more precious they view life. Any life.

I never used to think or feel the way I do now. When I was young death seemed so sad to me, then I went through a stage where I just accepted it, I was also of the mind that animals do not know they're going to be killed so what's the harm if the person is strong enough to deal with it. I don't think like that now. Life IS precious (to me and mine anyway)

 

[Maiziemouse]

Just wondering if you have tried/considered natural balance shoeing? My experience of this has been very positive. A few years ago one of my boys developed laminitis and had an x-ray through treatment of this, only to discover that he had a pre-existing old fracture in his pedal bone. As he was large at 17.3hh shire x TB my vets were unsure if he would be sound again due to the weight he had to support as compared to a small pony with similar problems. Anyway, following natural balance shoeing he quickly came sound and continued to compete in eventing (BE90), sj (BN) and dressage (Novice) at grassroots level. I have now handed the reins over to my husband who he has taught to ride and continue to enjoy life.

I am very lucky in that I have space at home for the old guys to live out their lives, so long as they continue to be happy and healthy. I think this is very much a personal decision dependant on you and your horses circumstances. I still have my first pony who at 36 with cushings and no teeth wanders round like he owns the place, however I also have an aged TB competition horse with kissing spine who I am desperately trying to get sound as following a period of rest I know he would not happily retire, would rather he did something useful on bute for as long as possible as he so loves to be busy.

 

[HashRouge]

really?!

Very poor argument. So where do you draw the line regarding life. Guess you never kill a fly, eat meat etc etc.

Just to answer your question though, no the person shot does not care provided they died instantly. How can they? The relatives/friends left behind to deal with the emotional trauma the act created do though.
It is this distinction that needs to be made particularly when discussing this topic.

I think Wagtail's point is that life is precious and we shouldn't just think it's okay to have a horse (or any animal) PTS just because "it won't know/ care". IF the horse will not have a good quality of life or IF the owner has no other option, then PTS can be the right choice. But I don't think it is one that we should make too freely, and I do think that some people see PTS as the easy way out. I'm not saying that this is true for the OP, btw, but I do understand what Wagtail meant.
Also, in regard to what PaddyMonty said about should we not eat meat and so on: I'm not against eating meat, but I think we should be responsible about it. Certain cultures/ groups of people are very careful only to kill an animal when they need to and then make sure that they use as much as the possibly can from the animal's body, so that it won't have died for nothing. I think modern society can be very wasteful when it comes to animals' lives, so I don't eat meat. Although I think that we're getting a little off topic here!

 

[Marydoll]

The question op is what will you do ? You will have mixed opinions on this thread with compelling arguments for both outcomes, keep or pts, the final outcome will always lie with you.
I have 2 field ornaments a 27 yo and a 15 yo with djd, who was unridable for years, both are maintained on daily danilon, both in mine and my vets opinion have a decent quality of life. i also have a tb who is healthy and rideable that i event, i am aware i am fortunate to be in a position to do this. I am over £100 a month on medications for theses horses, as well as all other horsey expenses, food, farrier, vets, time, care etc
If i was not in this position i would not have kept both horses as i want to ride, i would not have passed any of them on to an uncertain future and would have pts, only you can decide

 

[B_2_B]

My argument was not intended to be judgemental. It was to illustrate that just because the life taken is unaware, does not make it right. What is right for one person is wrong for another. The OP has to ask herself if she would feel guilty having the horse PTS. If the answer is 'yes' then it is the wrong decision for her. If she would not feel guilty, then it is the right one for her. I would feel guilty unless the animal was not paddock sound and so it would be unthinkable for me.

But there are many situations where it is the right thing for the horse but it's a hard decision and the owners will still feel guilty, even if they shouldn't.

 

[Wagtail]

I think Wagtail's point is that life is precious and we shouldn't just think it's okay to have a horse (or any animal) PTS just because "it won't know/ care". IF the horse will not have a good quality of life or IF the owner has no other option, then PTS can be the right choice. But I don't think it is one that we should make too freely, and I do think that some people see PTS as the easy way out. I'm not saying that this is true for the OP, btw, but I do understand what Wagtail meant.
Also, in regard to what PaddyMonty said about should we not eat meat and so on: I'm not against eating meat, but I think we should be responsible about it. Certain cultures/ groups of people are very careful only to kill an animal when they need to and then make sure that they use as much as the possibly can from the animal's body, so that it won't have died for nothing. I think modern society can be very wasteful when it comes to animals' lives, so I don't eat meat. Although I think that we're getting a little off topic here!

Exactly. I think that all life is precious, not just human. But being human, of course, human life is more important to us. But that does not mean that human life IS more important than an animals, just that this is how we view it. In fact, going off topic again, you could say that human life is actually very detrimental to the world. Regarding eating meat, I agree with you on that too. I don't eat it either, not because I think it is wrong, but because of the way it is mass produced, transported and slaughtered as though the animals were no more than tins of beans. But yes, it is a little off topic.

 

[Wagtail]

But there are many situations where it is the right thing for the horse but it's a hard decision and the owners will still feel guilty, even if they shouldn't.

Indeed. There is often the question 'have I done the right thing?' even when it is done for humane reasons.

 

[HashRouge]

Exactly. I think that all life is precious, not just human. But being human, of course, human life is more important to us. But that does not mean that human life IS more important than an animals, just that this is how we view it. In fact, going off topic again, you could say that human life is actually very detrimental to the world.

I very much agree with this.

 

[diamondrockharvey]

I think in some ways horses are lucky, they can be PTS and given a way out from some horrible conditions that human's don't have to option of.
I had a young horse that turned out to be a wobbler. I could have kept him alive to see how he developed in the pasture and there may have been a chance he had a life as a field ornament but I made the decision to let him go. I have never looked back, it was the right thing to do. I couldn't afford to keep an un-rideable horse but would never be sure of his future if I was do give him away as a companion. I don't the OP would be in the wrong to make this decision especially considering the horse as a degenerative disorder. He is better to go whilst he is still fairly sound than to wait until he is in a sad condition IMO.

 

[sarahann1]

I have two retired lads (19+24) and I'm in the position I can't afford a 3rd riding horse, its really depressing me that I basically can't ride now unless I'm offered a shot on a mates or go for a riding lesson. But my two lads will be with me until there quality of life starts to diminish, then (assuming nothing else crops up meantime) the hard decision will need to be made as personally I'm in the category of feeling guilty PTS unless its for the sake of there wellbeing. Luckily I have very nice vets who I know will also help me make the decision when the time comes.

Like a lot of other posters have said, your horse, your decision, you have to do what is right for you both. My only suggestion would be to retire him if you aren't comfortable riding him on bute and take each day/week/month as it comes, see how you feel not riding him, you never know whats round the corner, maybe someone will offer you the ride of a lifetime in the meantime?

Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you, being in this position sucks.
x

 

[Curragh]

From experiance- the first time you put a horse to sleep is the worst. The second time the grief is more intense on the day and the run up but it lasts a much, much shorter time. Take as much time as you need, but you need to talk to your vet about what you are looking for from him, what your beliefs are re: bute and you need to talk to your family and the vet about how you are feeling about pts. they will help you through this decision.

It wasn't the first horse I've had pts unfortunately. I have spoken to my OH, he's not particularly horsey but this horse is the first he's had a lot to do with and is not supportive in pts. He has paid for most of his treatment and is as heart broken as me. He says its my decision, I wish it were not.

 

[Wagtail]

I have two retired lads (19+24) and I'm in the position I can't afford a 3rd riding horse, its really depressing me that I basically can't ride now unless I'm offered a shot on a mates or go for a riding lesson. But my two lads will be with me until there quality of life starts to diminish, then (assuming nothing else crops up meantime) the hard decision will need to be made as personally I'm in the category of feeling guilty PTS unless its for the sake of there wellbeing. Luckily I have very nice vets who I know will also help me make the decision when the time comes.

Like a lot of other posters have said, your horse, your decision, you have to do what is right for you both. My only suggestion would be to retire him if you aren't comfortable riding him on bute and take each day/week/month as it comes, see how you feel not riding him, you never know whats round the corner, maybe someone will offer you the ride of a lifetime in the meantime?

Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you, being in this position sucks.
x

Your horses are so lucky to have you.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

He has paid for most of his treatment and is as heart broken as me. He says its my decision, I wish it were not.

Boys and their emotions! He's not dealing with it and you're not coping!

I hope you are able to make the right decision for yourself, your family and your horse. If you need some support, or a sounding board then we are all here for you!

 

[Brandy]

This is a difficult as we often feel differently to others about our animals. I have a 31 yr old tb, a 24 yr old pony and a 10 yr old welsh which is supposed to be my riding horse. He's an idiot and I don;t often enjoy riding him, but he is difficult and neurotic and I worry for him if he were to be rehomed in some way. The fact that I have kept the other two means I now don't have a proper riding horse. I am not one for selling on horses (though I have in the past havign aqcuired rather too many) so I keep them. Probably to my detriment! So I think it does depend on your view of your horse - i have friends who but one, compete it, then it either isn;t good enough, or gets injured or whatever, so they sell it and buy another one. This is not me. They would also pts much more readily than me. I actually wish I could be a bit less emotional about horses but its just not me.

Sorry, waffling and not much help!

 

[Brandy]

I agree though that the horse will not know if you decide to PTS. Its a bit irrelevant though as it doesn;t make you feel any better about it.

 

[Curragh]

Boys and their emotions! He's not dealing with it and you're not coping!

I hope you are able to make the right decision for yourself, your family and your horse. If you need some support, or a sounding board then we are all here for you!

Thank you Tinsel Trouble