What would you do? (be nice please)

[milesjess]

Have you spoken to your vet about his condition getting worse?

My horse has bone spavin's and he is on one danilon per day however I was adivsed that on his 'worse' day i.e. when the farrier is due... He can have that extra bit of danilon to take the edge off.

Does he live in or out? Would more turnout or living out help as he'll be moving around more.

Failing that, if you do have to retire him can you have him living out with a herd and maybe loan or school another horse?

I'm in a similar situation although I don't compete but worse comes to worse I'd retire him and ensure he has a good, happy life until his days come to a close. My horse will be with me for life. It does cross my mind when I see him having a bad day as to whether I've done the right thing by him but I have to give him a good chance at living his life

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks very much for all your replies.

My vet said I can put him on up to 3 bute a day, I feel uncomfortable doing this and do not wish to do it, just so he is sound to ride.

I spoke with my farrier earlier and he said we could give wedges or heart bars another go, but doesn't think it will change a great deal.

I did sell him last year and it didn't work out. So I took him back after 10 months and promised him he would be with me till the end

I had my other horse pts in November and I honestly don't think I can go through that again yet. This horse means a great deal to me, carried me safely during my pregnancy and is great with my children, a real character. I just feel like dr death at the moment and that every horse will be galloping for the hills when they see me....

I hate being in this situation

If the vet says you can give him up to 3 bute a day, why are you so against it? The vet knows what he is talking about. It is about quality of life, even if you retire the horse, presumably he will need some kind of painkiller to remain comfortable. Bute is only a problem in the very long-term. I've had a horse on it for 3 yrs, with no problems. We did eventually pts because her legs got so bad even with the bute - quality of life decision at the beginning of winter.
Have you tried magnet boots? They have worked for our arthritic horses but I have no experience of navicular.
What would I do? I'd keep the horse as a field ornament until it deteriorated to the point where quality of life was compromised. We always retire our oldies, the current one has been retired for 5/6 yrs. I've also had one retired for 12 yrs, I bought another to ride though.
IMO the decision is yours, you have to weigh up what is most important to you. Just please don't pass the decision on to some-one else. If you decide that you can't keep a field ornament, then pts - don't risk the horse being passed around.

 

[Always Henesy]

The OP has to ask herself if she would feel guilty having the horse PTS. If the answer is 'yes' then it is the wrong decision for her. If she would not feel guilty, then it is the right one for her. [/QUOTE

Ah Wagtail (massive sigh)
After much discussion between me and my vet - my horse was pts in August. He had grade 2 wobblers. The wobblers meant he was harming himself - a lot! After £10,000 in vets fees and the fact that I didn't want him to get to the stage of being on the floor and not being able to get up, I decided to call it a day. I gave him the summer out at grass.
I know that I made the right decision. However, he was my best friend and trusted me implicitly. I stood in that field holding him and telling him how much I loved him. He knew I would never have wished him harm, but I still authorised his death. The guilt I feel is immense. I cry for him every day and would have done anything to still have him here with me.
That said, not everyone has the luxury of affording a field ornament.
Whatever the OP decides, it will be hard.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
No one else can judge you. Only you have to live with the consequences of your decision. I know you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I feel really sorry that you are having such a dilemma.

 

[carthorse]

Whatever you decide you have been a very good owner of this horse and you will be doing the right thing. A horse does not know it is going to be pts and just as long as you are brave and don't just send it away for meat. I know people that have done this and they really don't know what happens to them. Either up the bute and see how it goes, retire but look after or pts. My thought are with you as you are a caring person

 

[AmyMay]

I'm confused op. You don't want to up the Bute (for enough). You don't want the horse pts. You can't sell it, or give it away (obviously).

What was the purpose of the post?

 

[Jazzy B]

OP I've tried replying to this post twice now but my computer keeps dying!

I'm probably just going to repeat what a lot of people have said on here but having been in a more bute/retire/keep going situation myself last year and now again this year with my other mare I feel your pain!

At the end of the day this is your decision and only you know what's best however, given his medical decision I would be hesitant in going down the companion horse route as you would have to find somebody who truly understood his issues this I think would be tricky but maybe not impossible. Personally, I think people that give their horses away as companions are pretty irresponsible and in a lot of cases think its a bit of a cop out! It sounds financially for you offering someone a contribution or having him on grass livery and having two horses is not really an option and unless you have fortunate to have your own land and are prepared not to ride, or ride other people's horses I don't think this is an option for many people. Don't feel bad about the fact that actually you would like to ride, for a lot of us riding is sanity in a mad world and although some people are happy not to ride if your not your not! Having a horse PTS is not great and I don't think you would be human if you didn't feel like you were going through some emotional nightmare but sometimes you have to put your emotional head to one side and put on your practical one!

 

[Wagtail]

I'm confused op. You don't want to up the Bute (for enough). You don't want the horse pts. You can't sell it, or give it away (obviously).

What was the purpose of the post?

I had started to think this too. The original question was 'what would YOU do?' not 'what should I do?' I did start to think it was a troll post, though probably it isn't. My other feeling is that the OP's other half is not keen on PTS and has rather unfairly put all the onus on the OP to make the decision. I may be wrong, but I think the OP wants to be told it is OK to put this horse to sleep, which many posters have said - it is. Others, having been asked 'what would YOU do?' have said that they would not. So the OP is probably no further forward.

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

I feel uncomfortable putting a paddock sound animal down
I'm a real advocate of life is sacrosanct until they tell us when they are ready.

Could not have put it better myself. I hoped to give me girl a lovely retirement for many years after stopping riding, even if I could not afford another, that was the way it was going to be. I could never have had her PTS if she was still field sound and happy, I lost her to sudden colic btw.

It is down to you, only you can answer this question for you and your horse, we are all different. The above is just how I feel about such a situation.
Perhaps you could find an inexpensive retirement livery or just a nice little grass livery place, i don't know, you know your horse best so do what is fair for your horse

 

[Curragh]

Believe me this not a troll post, I've been a member a fair while and the horse in question is in my avatar.

I just wanted to know what others would do and to see if there was an option I hadn't considered. It's not a decision that I will rush. I also don't mind giving him more bute, but it doesn't sit well with me to ride him on it. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Jazzy B]

currah know exactly what your saying and having been in the same position myself know where your coming from its a toughie

 

[Wagtail]

Believe me this not a troll post, I've been a member a fair while and the horse in question is in my avatar.

I just wanted to know what others would do and to see if there was an option I hadn't considered. It's not a decision that I will rush. I also don't mind giving him more bute, but it doesn't sit well with me to ride him on it. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

As I said, it was just a thought that occured to me and I apologise for suggesting it. I do not really understand why you would not be prepared to bute him up to ride though. Surely, if he could choose (and yes, I know they can't), he would prefer that to the alternative? I used to take massive doses of NSAIs just to function on a daily basis. I took them for five years before finally my condition improved all by itself. I took them so that I could ride, do aerobics and walk the dogs. I thought they were marvelous. Why a horse should be any different, taking bute so that he could carry out his physical activities more comfortably, I don't know.

You also need to remember that MANY horses suffer in silence with pain that their owners are completely unaware of. For example if their lameness is bilateral, it is often not detected. They are just considered stiff, or quirky. At least you know about your boys and can give him the pain relief he needs.

 

[Jazzy B]

sorry not meaning to go off the thread here, the OP feels that her horse is deteriorating and yes she could up his bute but it doesn't sit easy with her personally riding a horse that relies on pain killers doesn't and didn't sit either with me either because ultimately your masking pain and how do you know, that the horse isn't still in pain and basically you have just given them enough pain relief to make it bearable. The OP is faced with a horrible dilemma here and at the beginning of the post asked whether anyone had any other ideas other than her already pretty bleak options and to be nice accusing her of being a troll post is quite frankly not nice at a pretty horrible time for her.

 

[angel7]

Have you considered de nerving? Is he a young horse in which case it might be an option?
I know folk make a terrible hooha about denerving but if it relieves the pain and improves quality of life it shouldn't be dimissed. Riding him if its successful would just be bonus.

You might find he has a new lease of life when released from constant low grade pain....
Agree with above alot of horses suffer in pain without owners even being aware.
I don't see a problem with upping the pain killer, or changing it to another kind can be more effective ie metacam.

 

[NooNoo59]

I was in exactly the same situation six years ago, kept horses at livery so very expensive pets! Could not face the decision to have one put down but still wanted to ride so put one out on loan as a companion, worst thing i ever did, should have had her put down when she was diagnosed. She was stolen on loan, and it took me ages to find her, she had been all over the place and not well looked after, i got her back gave her two weeks of spoiling and had her destroyed which is what i should have done in the first place. You take the responsibility to make that decision when you get any sort of animal, its a very hard thing to do, but it is the best thing and the kindest, you know he is in pain so dont drag it out. Horses are very expensive animals to keep as pets. Good luck

 

[Wagtail]

sorry not meaning to go off the thread here, the OP feels that her horse is deteriorating and yes she could up his bute but it doesn't sit easy with her personally riding a horse that relies on pain killers doesn't and didn't sit either with me either because ultimately your masking pain and how do you know, that the horse isn't still in pain and basically you have just given them enough pain relief to make it bearable. The OP is faced with a horrible dilemma here and at the beginning of the post asked whether anyone had any other ideas other than her already pretty bleak options and to be nice accusing her of being a troll post is quite frankly not nice at a pretty horrible time for her.

I did not call he a troll. I said it was a thought that occurred to me that was probably not the case here. I also apologised for even mentioning it, so if that isn't being nice, I don't know what is.

But I think you are trying to stir things which isn't nice either.

 

[Arizahn]

I love my horse. But, if she were to fall seriously sick/lame, I would only allow a year. If after that she was either no better, had gotten worse, or was diagnosed as having a degenerative condition, then I would PTS.

Reasons:
I wouldn't sell her on unsound as she could end up being ridden into the ground, bred to death, and ultimately shipped live to slaughter.
I wouldn't risk putting an unsound horse out on loan, too many things could go wrong.
I wouldn't bankrupt myself for an animal who had no hope of recovery.

There are many healthy horses out there that also require good homes. Better to PTS the ones who have no hope of a healthy future before they start to suffer any more than is necessary.
I do not regard death as being a terrible thing - it is how death occurs that may be terrible or peaceful, cruel or merciful. The hardest part of an animal being PTS is for the people left behind.

 

[Jazzy B]

Wagtail if you knew me, you would know stirring things up is really not my thing but yep apologise on this occasion didn't read your post properly soz

 

[Hedwards]

Like I said in an earlier post I was in a very similar situation (not navicular) and was also not happy to bute to ride. So I decided to retire her (no bute required for the time being) and took it on the chin that if I couldn't afford 2 horses I'd have to deal with the fact I wouldn't be able to ride for a while (although I did go through a phase where I thought I was going to have to PTS as she wasn't even field sound) as connie got well enough that she didn't need drugs to lead a normal non ridden life I knew it was right for her to continue until things changed. It's a decision of if the horse has a chance of 1) a good quality of life and not riding until you can afford another, 2) pts and get another 3) up the bute and continue as is. Which is right for the OP only they can decide. All of them are fairly difficult to make, and I'm dreading the time when connie's quality of life deteriorates. Good luck OP.

 

[tabithakat64]

Hi, I remember you from HT.

Based on my experience, I was very anti-buting in order to ride until my 9 year old was diagnosed with spavins 6 months after I purchased him.

I was advised to bute him and work him (I chose to use Danalon instead and as it turns out he only needs it on the odd day) Merlin loves to work, he teaches people to ride, does the odd dressage test, enjoys jumping, hacking and will be going hunting soon.

I was also given this option with Fudge after his tendon injury, he will never be completely sound but I was given the option of buting him to do light schooling etc which would have meant the risk of reinjury was far greater.

Fudge never really enjoyed being schooled etc. He did enjoy hacking and being pampered so I chose not to bute him and just stick to the very light hacking he is capable of.

I guess what I'm saying is that you know your horse best, if he's happier in work than bute him and work him. If he's happier mooching around in the field then let him do that whilst he's still comfortable, if you think he's in constant pain even on bute and miserable then pts as it will be best for him.

As horse owners especially those who care about their horses as much as you obviously care about your boys, we should put our own feelings aside and do what is best for them.

 

[muff747]

Sure sign the Barefoot Taliban are otherwise engaged!
Everyone is talking about navicular being a degenerative condition and there's no hope of recovery - in this day and age, it is treatable and recovery is likely. This horse is only 12 and once rehabilitated, could lead a normal ridden life, doing all the things the op would have done if the shoes he is wearing weren't damaging his feet. Remedial shoeing only puts off the inevitable. What a shame for your horse that you couldn't find a way to take the barefoot option, I'm certain he would have done it given the right opportunity.
If my horse had been 12 now and I was in the same position as the OP I would be trying the barefoot route again.
I seriously was in the same position of facing the future with a horse diagnosed and suffering from navicular and wishing I could afford another horse to do all the things I had dreamt about when I got him. But my feelings were and still are that I had made a commitment and taken on a responsibility to do everything I could to care for him as best I can. So I was unlucky enough to buy a horse that was going to be prone to navicular and now I had to keep my promise to myself, a bit like a marriage - in sickness and in health etc. and not just cast him aside because he was no use anymore.
But this was 12 years ago and barefoot was only just becoming written about, O how I wish I could go back with the knowledge I have now, with all the help and encouragement there is available to anyone who is willing to give their horse another chance of leading a useful ridden horse life.
I did take the barefoot option and he came sound, and was off painkillers within 12 months and I was hacking him out and building up his fitness again. Unfortunately, he was getting on by then and he was daignosed with Cushings. He is fully sound now aged 24 and looking fantastic for his age. I am still commited to keeping him sound and happy as a field ornament as long as I can.
Please give your boy another chance, you say he is very special to you. It need not be expensive, in fact it will save you money and you are very likely to get him sound and back into work, you just need to give it 100%. PM me if you want any more advice on where to start again. And read about the horses on the Rockley web site, they go hunting, jumping, hacking everywhere barefoot, no restrictions.

 

[Curragh]

Muff747 you will find my horse on the Rockley web site, as he went there for rehab and he never came sound. Barefoot didn't suit him, it doesn't work for every horse.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I'm in the same position as you and have considered the PTS option as she can't do the job she was bought for. She is a cracking horse and although she was very much a horse that loved her job, she looks she well and happy as a field ornament, so I just can't call it a day on her.

However, I wouldn't criticise you for choosing differently, horses are expensive to keep and making the decision to PTS takes courage. Much better than buting and selling on to an uncertain future like so many of our fellow horse owners.

Reading your posts, I can see what he means to you and how you have explored every option, but you know, the decision can only be made by you. Indecision is the painful part, but if you choose PTS, don't feel guilty. You've done your best and your needs are valid too.

 

[Wagtail]

Sure sign the Barefoot Taliban are otherwise engaged!
Everyone is talking about navicular being a degenerative condition and there's no hope of recovery - in this day and age, it is treatable and recovery is likely. This horse is only 12 and once rehabilitated, could lead a normal ridden life, doing all the things the op would have done if the shoes he is wearing weren't damaging his feet. Remedial shoeing only puts off the inevitable. What a shame for your horse that you couldn't find a way to take the barefoot option, I'm certain he would have done it given the right opportunity.
If my horse had been 12 now and I was in the same position as the OP I would be trying the barefoot route again.
I seriously was in the same position of facing the future with a horse diagnosed and suffering from navicular and wishing I could afford another horse to do all the things I had dreamt about when I got him. But my feelings were and still are that I had made a commitment and taken on a responsibility to do everything I could to care for him as best I can. So I was unlucky enough to buy a horse that was going to be prone to navicular and now I had to keep my promise to myself, a bit like a marriage - in sickness and in health etc. and not just cast him aside because he was no use anymore.
But this was 12 years ago and barefoot was only just becoming written about, O how I wish I could go back with the knowledge I have now, with all the help and encouragement there is available to anyone who is willing to give their horse another chance of leading a useful ridden horse life.
I did take the barefoot option and he came sound, and was off painkillers within 12 months and I was hacking him out and building up his fitness again. Unfortunately, he was getting on by then and he was daignosed with Cushings. He is fully sound now aged 24 and looking fantastic for his age. I am still commited to keeping him sound and happy as a field ornament as long as I can.
Please give your boy another chance, you say he is very special to you. It need not be expensive, in fact it will save you money and you are very likely to get him sound and back into work, you just need to give it 100%. PM me if you want any more advice on where to start again. And read about the horses on the Rockley web site, they go hunting, jumping, hacking everywhere barefoot, no restrictions.

Excellent, eloquently put advice.

 

[rubysmum]

i am having a very similair conversation with my vet tonight re the big girl - she is almost 22 - on 2 bute a day for her arthritis - she hasnt been ridden for some weeks now and looks fed up & uncomfortable
i have spent as much as i have over the last years to keep her happy but believe there is a financial & emotional limit & i dont want the last few months/yrs of our life together to become a time where i resent her & loose the happiness she has brought me over many years
obs - the issues with PTS with my mare are very different as she is so much older
i hope the OP finds a resolution that sits comfortably with her

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Excellent, eloquently put advice.

Maybe so, but not appropriate in this incidence. The OP has done Rockley and the horse was still lame.

 

[foxy1]

Muff747 you will find my horse on the Rockley web site, as he went there for rehab and he never came sound. Barefoot didn't suit him, it doesn't work for every horse.

Which horse?

 

[Wagtail]

Maybe so, but not appropriate in this incidence. The OP has done Rockley and the horse was still lame.

Thanks. Yes, I noticed this after I had posted. Still a very good post though which could give hope and another option to others. It does sound like the OPs horse is a particularly bad case. I would still go down the bute route though before considering PTS.

 

[touchstone]

I think in your position I would give myself a time limit of a year or two, give the bute to keep comfortable in the field and then monitor carefully for deterioration but have a date in mind to pts down the line.

That way a year or two of not riding isn't going to hurt, and I'm sure there are other horses out there that need riders to keep you in the saddle if that's what you want; the horse can hopefully have a couple of years of comfortable retirement with pain relief and you can stop any suffering before it worsens.

You may also find that he deteriorates quickly making any final decisions easier.

If you feel that you can't do that then pts straight away is the better option.

I also think that while horses can be kept comfortable and have a good quality of life it is worth keeping going, but I've also seen the other side of the coin when people have put off making the decision to pts, leaving the horse with little quality of life and keeping them going for their own reasons and not the horse's best interests, which is extremely unfair to the horse. I'm a big believer in better a day too soon than a day too late and wouldn't judge anybody for pts a horse with a painful degenerative condition.

 

[AmyMay]

Muff747 you will find my horse on the Rockley web site, as he went there for rehab and he never came sound. Barefoot didn't suit him, it doesn't work for every horse.

Currah, you say the horse has navicular - but has your vet actually been able to pinpoint the exact nature of the problem through MRI or and X-rays??

 

[Curragh]

He was diagnosed by x ray and had them repeated after rehab. My horse is Charlie foxy1.