What would you do?

[PercyMum]

I am at my wits end and no idea what to do. I think I know what to do but I am not sure I can bring myself to do it...

Big brown nag is a fantastically well bred KWPN that I bought for very little as he had a 'breakdown' as a dressage horse. He was 6. He has always been a tricksy horse but showed alot of promise jumping. However, his flatwork has not improved; he just panics and runs off, and takes offence at EVERYTHING. He subsequently has had Kissing Spine surgery. I don't think that he has improved post-op, despite alot of rehab.

He lunges beautifully and has had teeth, saddle and back checked. I changed to a Hackamore as he wouldn't take the contact forward (thanks for the advice HHO!). Worked like a treat for a few days but now he is just tanking off everywhere with me and has become really heavy and strong in my hand, and I cannot hold him. He has stopped jumping as well - rockets away from the fence like a scalded cat and it scares the bejesus out of me.

I don't want to PTS as he is only 9 and has a fantastic paces and ability. He is a poppet to handle and a really nice boy. But I just don't enjoy riding him as he is so bonkers. I know that no-one will buy him and I would worry about him being pushed about or injuring someone anyway. He was bought to replace my eventer who had a career-ending accident. So now I have basically had 6 years without competing or having fun with my horses. They are supposed to be fun and I am just not enjoying him.

Well done if you have got this far - what would you do?

 

[rachmacypixie111]

I would love to be able to give you advice but I am just a pleasure rider (never competed but worked as a groom for 5 yrs at good competition yards)
I don't agree with putting horses down though because they can't compete anymore - although this is not the case for you?

Could you re-home him as a companion if he can't be ridden?

 

[Izzwizz]

What would I do ? - I would turn him away for the winter, the poor lad has had a very hard life from a young age by the sound of things. He's had enough and wants a rest is what I think.. I think he deserves that at the very least and see what next year brings. Sorry if its not what you want to hear but thats what I would do..

 

[be positive]

You took on a horse that already had been probably pushed too far as a dressage prospect and had a "breakdown" he sounds as if he has never had time to recover from this.
I would also give him a total break, turn out and let him be a horse for 6 months, if he comes back as bad or worse then decide what to do.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Give him a few months off and enjoy a winter without riding! You can still fuss him and look after him, but just no riding. Providing you can give daily turnout, he'll be fine. you might find he feels like a new horse when he comes back into work.

 

[PercyMum]

You took on a horse that already had been probably pushed too far as a dressage prospect and had a "breakdown" he sounds as if he has never had time to recover from this.
I would also give him a total break, turn out and let him be a horse for 6 months, if he comes back as bad or worse then decide what to do.

I turned him away for 3 months - he has not improved at all. If anything, he is getting worse, although he looks miles better than when I bought him. Would turning away work if he was coming in every night - he will not stay in a field more than 7 hours.

 

[PercyMum]

Ooh, he did have 6 months off after he was chucked off the dressage yard. That was before I had him though.

 

[brown tack]

I'd give him the winter off and then properly brung him back early spring with a view to aim him at hunting. No pressure, just go with the flow and see what he is like come the spring after a few hunts under his belt.

Then decide from there

 

[abina]

I would let nature take it's course and give him plenty of time to recoup and recover. Find a field with a companion and turn away for at least the winter. Pet him, care for him but let him rough off and be a horse. You will be amazed what time can do.

Good luck

 

[brown tack]

Just saw your last few posts.

Have you had thermal imaging done? Sometimes it picks up things that other scans, xrays don't

 

[Izzwizz]

If you do decide to turn him away then before you bring him back into work I would have everything checked as in teeth, tack, vet check-up - head to toe, and use a top Physio. If you rule everything out then maybe its behavioural. On a totally different note, have you thought about using a Horse Whisperer person?

 

[Holly Hocks]

I turned him away for 3 months - he has not improved at all. If anything, he is getting worse, although he looks miles better than when I bought him. Would turning away work if he was coming in every night - he will not stay in a field more than 7 hours.

I don't want to sound like I'm teaching Granny to suck eggs (not that I've ever actually seen any Grannies sucking eggs - fruit pastilles possibly- but never eggs!) but what are you feeding him?

Yes it would work if he is coming in every night. My mare has just been diagnosed with navicular in both front feet and a ligament problem in her hind limb. I was going to turn her away, but I know she likes to come in at night and the vet is perfectly happy with that. She will have turnout most days (weather dependant) but the pressure of work will be taken away.

 

[be positive]

I'd give him the winter off and then properly brung him back early spring with a view to aim him at hunting. No pressure, just go with the flow and see what he is like come the spring after a few hunts under his belt.

Then decide from there

But hunting is during the winter so this would not work
The horse also sounds like it might be a lethal ride out hunting.

OP is there anything the horse is happy doing, if it does not settle turned out it is not going to really chill and probably wont be any better for a break.
Does he hack sensibly? Could you try riding in the hackamore with a bit also so you have two reins.
I do think that some horses never really recover from early traumas and his ks may have been only a part of the problem, hence no real improvement since the op.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'd turn away for more than a few months, i.e. at least a year. let the poor thing relax and forget all about work, pain, demands etc. Then I would bring him back into work very, very slowly after checking everything again. I would also look at his feed, as it is possible that something that he is eating is causing him to have problems. It's amazing what a change of feed to basics can achieve. I can't see any reason why he shouldn't come in at night, if that makes him happier. although he might well settle to living out when he realises that he has constant companions.

 

[PercyMum]

But hunting is during the winter so this would not work
The horse also sounds like it might be a lethal ride out hunting.

OP is there anything the horse is happy doing, if it does not settle turned out it is not going to really chill and probably wont be any better for a break.
Does he hack sensibly? Could you try riding in the hackamore with a bit also so you have two reins.
I do think that some horses never really recover from early traumas and his ks may have been only a part of the problem, hence no real improvement since the op.

He likes lunging!!! I have tried time and again to get him to hack out - I thought it would let him chill out, slob around and be a horse. But he genuinely finds hacking traumatic and comes back a wreck. I stopped making him do it because he kept coming back in such a state. Tried with horses, without others etc etc. He does lead nicely off my other horse, which is what I have been doing to try and get him out and about.

I have spent a fortune on trying to find out whats wrong with him, and the pennies (and if I'm honest, the patience) is running out. I have now had him 3.5 years and I have done NOTHING with him except fork out for bills and get pulled, thrown, tanked off with, bucked and reared. I would say I am an experienced and sensitive rider and even my instructor is at a bit of a loss as to what to do with him. He has had the best of everything.

At what point do you just say "Enough"? With hindsight, I made a mistake in buying him, although I do love him dearly. I have tried my best for him but I now don't know what other options I have left open for him. Please don't think I am being heartless; I am trying to do what is best. As for deep-seated trauma, how do I get though to him????

 

[PercyMum]

I'd turn away for more than a few months, i.e. at least a year. let the poor thing relax and forget all about work, pain, demands etc. Then I would bring him back into work very, very slowly after checking everything again. I would also look at his feed, as it is possible that something that he is eating is causing him to have problems. It's amazing what a change of feed to basics can achieve. I can't see any reason why he shouldn't come in at night, if that makes him happier. although he might well settle to living out when he realises that he has constant companions.

He is sugar-intolerant (found this out after months of colic and a gastric scan) so has Happy Hoof and Speedibeet, and nothing else (not even treats). He is also on Magnitude (in the vain hope it might help!!) and Glucosamine. This was the diet recommended to me by the guys at Liphook. As for living out 24/7, we can't do that at our yard. ANd I think he would have a heart attack at staying out overnight. There be beasties out there you know.....

 

[SusieT]

Turn him away, move yards if you have to if the issue is that he is not rideable. It sounds more like schooling to be honest than anything else, had you had lessons?
I don't understand why you are saying you don't want to PTS when you say the horse is happy and contend and easy to handle on the ground-so why was pts even on the agenda except perhaps as an easy get out for you to get a shiney new horse?

 

[Elsbells]

Turn him away, move yards if you have to if the issue is that he is not rideable. It sounds more like schooling to be honest than anything else, had you had lessons?
I don't understand why you are saying you don't want to PTS when you say the horse is happy and contend and easy to handle on the ground-so why was pts even on the agenda except perhaps as an easy get out for you to get a shiney new horse?

That's a bit harsh SusieT!?

 

[MizzPurpleKitten]

Personally? I'd go with what some others have said and turn him away, for a year or so, let him be a horse....bring him in at night if he prefers but just let him be a horse (give him attention fuss and food but take away all the expectations of work etc) then I'd totally have everything checked and re-checked, then re-start him almost from scratch.....treat it as a completely new start and take it VERY SLOWLY. If he truly has had a bad breakdown then keeping working him will not solve the issues, it sounds like the poor lad has had a very bad time of it pretty early on in life.

 

[rachmacypixie111]

If you have had him for 6 yrs - I dont understand why you have not had more help sooner - I am sorry if I sound harsh but you are all saying turn him away for a year - she has had him 6 yrs!! dont you think this should have already been done??

Sorry - but if I hear this horse has been put down I will be very upset!!

I have been on a yard where so many horses have been put down because they dont compete as the owner wished!!! SO *******ING what - you bought the horse - it's a life thing - if you can't compete - DONT!

Sorry - I am soo mad - go on them everybody - tell me I am wrong!!!

 

[Bess]

I would get someone out to check his back again and would not be jumping until given the ok. Could you get an equine physiotherapist to check him over and make sure that his back and muscles are ok. He might still have areas that are really tight because of the previous pain he had before surgery. So might still be remembering what was sore eg jumping and not be fully ok now.

 

[abitodd]

Riding IS supposed to be fun! We spend hours caring for our horses and £££paying for our hobby,so I don't blame you for looking at your options with this horse.
I agree that a big chunk of time off might help,but in the meantime you have nothing to ride.
You could do groundwork,clicker training,lunging,longlining etc.......Or you could write a no holes barred ad on Project Horses. Someone might want a big pet or have the answer for this horse.

 

[PercyMum]

Turn him away, move yards if you have to if the issue is that he is not rideable. It sounds more like schooling to be honest than anything else, had you had lessons?
I don't understand why you are saying you don't want to PTS when you say the horse is happy and contend and easy to handle on the ground-so why was pts even on the agenda except perhaps as an easy get out for you to get a shiney new horse?

If you have had him for 6 yrs - I dont understand why you have not had more help sooner - I am sorry if I sound harsh but you are all saying turn him away for a year - she has had him 6 yrs!! dont you think this should have already been done??

Sorry - but if I hear this horse has been put down I will be very upset!!

I have been on a yard where so many horses have been put down because they dont compete as the owner wished!!! SO *******ING what - you bought the horse - it's a life thing - if you can't compete - DONT!

Sorry - I am soo mad - go on them everybody - tell me I am wrong!!!

I think these are quite harsh and uncalled for!! And yes I know everyone is entitled to their opinion. SusieT, I have had numerous lessons and advice and we are not getting anywhere. And a new shiny horse is not what I was thinking.

Rachmacypixie - I have had him 3.5 years. The 6 years refers to the 3 previous years of problems I had with my other horse. Who I still have, despite all his issues. The 3.5 years includes a year off for KSS and about 6 months of being turned away a few times to clear his head. I put about PTS so I didn't get people telling me to do that as that is not what I think is right. I have had alot of help from alot of experienced professionals, and they are ALL scratching their heads. Interestingly not one of them has said to turn away - they don't think it will help. However, I think this is one of the only avenues I have left.

And yes, my horses are for life. But they are also supposed to be a hobby and a pleasure. Thankyou to everyone else who has been helpful and offered valuable advice so far.

 

[Mithras]

Does he hack out at all?

 

[PercyMum]

I would get someone out to check his back again and would not be jumping until given the ok. Could you get an equine physiotherapist to check him over and make sure that his back and muscles are ok. He might still have areas that are really tight because of the previous pain he had before surgery. So might still be remembering what was sore eg jumping and not be fully ok now.

Thanks - he has the physio every 3 weeks atm, and we were given the all clear to try jumping again. I only jumped 3 small cross poles and he went mad after all of them. Have not tried it again since (funny old thing). Physio came straight out and checked back - all fine. See why its such a headscratcher!!??

Riding IS supposed to be fun! We spend hours caring for our horses and £££paying for our hobby,so I don't blame you for looking at your options with this horse.
I agree that a big chunk of time off might help,but in the meantime you have nothing to ride.
You could do groundwork,clicker training,lunging,longlining etc.......Or you could write a no holes barred ad on Project Horses. Someone might want a big pet or have the answer for this horse.

He would LOVE to be a big pet I think!! But a 17.2hh who eats you out of house and home and is a delicate wee flower would be a little difficult to find such a home for. But if anyone knows of one, please send them my way!!! As for having a horse to ride, I do have my dear old retired eventer to potter about on, so its not a total disaster riding-wise. I just want to do whats best for the big lad.

 

[PercyMum]

Does he hack out at all?

Nope - that was my first line of attack to try and get hm to chill out and be a horse. Gets very stressed by hacking out, whatever I try. Does lead off my other horse though so we do that once a week.

 

[scatty_mare]

I think some of these replies are very harsh. Riding IS meant to be fun, we pour so much of our money, time and energy into these big animals and a situation such as this can be totally soul-destroying. Of course, if and when it comes right, it's the best thing in the world and all the worry and heartache is worth it, but it seems to me to be very cruel to question the motives of someone who is clearly in a bit of a quandary.
For those who say that a horse is for life, in an ideal world of course it is. However not everyone has the luxury of being able to collect horses and keep them forever.
It is clear from the original post that the OP cares very much for this horse, has tried everything and wants to do all she can to ensure he has a happy and secure future.
OP I don't really have any bright ideas not already mentioned, but I really, really hope you find the answer.

 

[rachmacypixie111]

Sorry my mistake - go put him to sleep then - he's only 9 - you need something to ride - so consentrate on that!

 

[Bess]

Thanks - he has the physio every 3 weeks atm, and we were given the all clear to try jumping again. I only jumped 3 small cross poles and he went mad after all of them. Have not tried it again since (funny old thing). Physio came straight out and checked back - all fine. See why its such a headscratcher.

Ok you've obviously covered that. If mine hasn't jumped in a while he goes a bit mad (with excitement) when jumping again but I usually start with poles on the ground and poles between jump posts and try and get him over the excitement. I imagine your 'mad' was a different sort of mad.

Last suggestion, a bit outside the box but what about an animal communicator?

 

[scatty_mare]

Sorry my mistake - go put him to sleep then - he's only 9 - you need something to ride - so consentrate on that!

But she specifically said that's NOT something that she is considering, and she stated that she mentioned it in the OP only so that everyone wouldn't suggest it.

Has anyone suggested thermal imaging?