What would you use a Waterford snaffle for?

Tnavas said:
What you are all tending to forget is that we do not know the riding ability of the majority of people who post on this forum.

Being made aware of how painful the bit can be, before subjecting their unfortunate equine to its action is a sensible action to take.

It is a strong bit and in the wrong hands a severe bit. At the moment it is the 'In' bit to use, as the Dutch Gag was a few years back. For those that have the hands, balance, and knowledge use it well, sadly many don't and the poor horse suffers.
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He is ridden in a loose ring snaffle with a lozenge and goes very nicely in it, we ride with our seat and legs up into the bridle. We don't have them hanging on our hands and keep everything soft.

He has never had a flash/grakle / martingale on him and only extra thing is a neck strap.

It's just for the times in company he tries it on and I I don't want to have to be fighting and basically hauling on his mouth.
He is 700 kilos I'm 8stone so he is a bit of an advantage.

Like I said before it will only be used when he gets a bit to big for his boots out in company then back to his normal bit
 
Tnavas said:
To use a Waterford you need good hands - it is a strong bit with a sharp action - it hurts - which is why horses respond to it so well.

Consider its shape - balls and bars - the pressure is pin point as contact area is minimal - therefore pounds per square inch is high - compare to the effect of high heel shoes on linoleum flooring - heels make big dents as all the wearer's weight is over one tiny area.

Because of the bars between the balls the bit clunks over the bars of the mouth - the bars are only a couple of inches apart so your 5" bit can do a lot of clunking. The same applies to the corners of the mouth each time you ask to turn.

Be really sure you need it and that you have the hands to ride with it.
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Ellsbells, above is my post, and I stated TWICE that you need good hands to ride with a Waterford!
 
I use a Waterford gag on my ID for hunting he still bites it fixes his neck and tried to tank I can just hold him in this I really don't like using this bit but think any other type of mouth peice he really would be able to grab with the teeth & completely go if anyone has any ideas please let me know!! also has a flash noseband on but not done up tightly, also I use avacallo gel bit guards as they curve around the inside of the lip so reduce lip action
 
Tnavas said:
What you are all tending to forget is that we do not know the riding ability of the majority of people who post on this forum.

Being made aware of how painful the bit can be, before subjecting their unfortunate equine to its action is a sensible action to take.

It is a strong bit and in the wrong hands a severe bit. At the moment it is the 'In' bit to use, as the Dutch Gag was a few years back. For those that have the hands, balance, and knowledge use it well, sadly many don't and the poor horse suffers.
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Yet another pompous post with no constructive suggestions - just criticism
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Yet another pompous post with no constructive suggestions - just criticism
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Many people do not realize how severe a Waterford is. Some are better than others (e.g. the stuebben Waterford is less severe), but in general, because they collapse in the mouth, they grab and pinch the tongue, as well as being extremely hard over the bars. Horses don't tend to lean on them because they hurt, full stop.

BTW: the NS Waterford is one of the nastiest forms I've seen.
 
On a strongish horse that has been ridden or is ridden by a novice, ie not an intermediate dressage person. It gives confidence to horse and to rider, it look fearsome but is very kind.
 
Bonkers2 said:
On a strongish horse that has been ridden or is ridden by a novice, ie not an intermediate dressage person. It gives confidence to horse and to rider, it look fearsome but is very kind.
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Nope. The waterford bit is a nasty piece of kit, as is the magennis, mentioned above. Back in the days before people discovered schooling, these kinds of snaffle (along with the "w" mouth, twisted and wire mouths) were used by "quick fix" dealers. They don't belong in any civilised horseman's tack room, let alone the mouth of a horse.
 
Cortez said:
Nope. The waterford bit is a nasty piece of kit, as is the magennis, mentioned above. Back in the days before people discovered schooling, these kinds of snaffle (along with the "w" mouth, twisted and wire mouths) were used by "quick fix" dealers. They don't belong in any civilised horseman's tack room, let alone the mouth of a horse.
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What you you suggest then? he is schooled and hacked regularly five days minimum a week. All I want is a bit extra for when we are in a group.
 
Slightlyconfused said:
What you you suggest then? he is schooled and hacked regularly five days minimum a week. All I want is a bit extra for when we are in a group.
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Don't know without seeing the horse (and rider, more importantly), but threatening him through his mouth is unlikely to add to the joy of riding (for the horse, that is). I prefer the curb once the horse has learned what to do with the rider's signals, but not all riders can cope with the sensitivity required. Never met a horse that didn't go well in a curb once convinced that the rider knew how to LET GO.
 
Cortez said:
They don't belong in any civilised horseman's tack room, let alone the mouth of a horse.
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What a very offensive statement. I consider myself to be an educated rider, with good hands, and great respect for my horse. He doesn't like a curb action, even though I am fully aware of how to use one correctly - he competed up to PSG in a snaffle for that reason. I hack him in a Waterford, using it with the greatest of respect for his mouth, in situations where he might put us both in danger. I rarely need to pick up a contact, but it's there if I do, and of all the stronger bits I've tried, this is the one he objects to least. He is not a horse who is shy about sharing his opinions, and he wouldn't tolerate me causing him pain.
 
Auslander said:
What a very offensive statement. I consider myself to be an educated rider, with good hands, and great respect for my horse. He doesn't like a curb action, even though I am fully aware of how to use one correctly - he competed up to PSG in a snaffle for that reason. I hack him in a Waterford, using it with the greatest of respect for his mouth, in situations where he might put us both in danger. I rarely need to pick up a contact, but it's there if I do, and of all the stronger bits I've tried, this is the one he objects to least. He is not a horse who is shy about sharing his opinions, and he wouldn't tolerate me causing him pain.
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No offense intended; I'm just repeating the words of an extremely accomplished (and very famous - you will have heard of him) horseman, and I happen to agree with him.
 
Cortez said:
No offense intended; I'm just repeating the words of an extremely accomplished (and very famous - you will have heard of him) horseman, and I happen to agree with him.
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That makes it alright then...
I believe in working with the horse to find a solution that suits both horse and rider. In this case, my horse and I are in agreement that this particular bit is acceptable. I found it rather grating that it was implied that I was not a civilised horsewoman, because of a bit choice that was carefully considered, when I have spent the last 30 years working hard to be the sort of rider that can develop a great partnership with a talented, sensitive, quirky horse. This is a horse that came to me because he had taken to dumping everyone who got on him, without taking so much as a step away from the mounting block. He doesn't do that any more - so I think I've done a pretty good job getting him back from a dark place
 
Cortez said:
Nope. The waterford bit is a nasty piece of kit, as is the magennis, mentioned above. Back in the days before people discovered schooling, these kinds of snaffle (along with the "w" mouth, twisted and wire mouths) were used by "quick fix" dealers. They don't belong in any civilised horseman's tack room, let alone the mouth of a horse.
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Cortez I could hug you! Someone else at last that understands how nasty the Waterford is.
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Yet another pompous post with no constructive suggestions - just criticism
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I don't think it's pompous at all.

We don't know the ability of people on the forum. It's good to make people aware of how severe a Waterford is. Dutch gags were the 'bit of the day' a few years ago.
All true statements nothing pompous or really critical.

Bits are all about the hands that use them. I went to a biting demo a few years ago at the Royal vets college and they showed an x Ray of a horse that had been ridden in a vulcanite straight bar snaffle. Big heavyweight hunter that carried a large male rider. The horse suddenly became very sensitive in the mouth and wouldn't take the bit. X-Ray revealed that firstly the bit had been incorrectly fitted, secondly there were bone fractures/splints where the bit had been severely misused.

I'm not a fan of the Waterford, they are very severe and I've seen More harm than good with them.
 
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Tnavas said:
Cortez I could hug you! Someone else at last that understands how nasty the Waterford is.
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Any bit is nasty on the wrong hands. Personally, I would rather close my fingers round the reins and have instant control in a tricky situation, than be carted down the road, hauling on the reins, to stop 700kg of horse that has spooked, set it's jaw, spun and fecked off.
 
My pony loves her waterford is fussy and annoyed by most other bits so I guess some like the fact it has lots of joints and it doesnt stop her dead in pain she is a very happy little soul
 
Doormouse said:
They often suit horses with a large tongue and low palette. I have just sold a horse who refused to go in anything but a Waterford, he loved it. He wasn't strong, he just found the shape and pull of the Waterford suited him and he was relaxed and happy in his mouth. If they cause pain why would this be?
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windand rain said:
My pony loves her waterford is fussy and annoyed by most other bits so I guess some like the fact it has lots of joints and it doesnt stop her dead in pain she is a very happy little soul
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Totally agree with Doormouse and windand rain. They do seem to suit some horses. It took me 18 months to find the right bit(s) for my boy. He has a HUGE tongue, very fleshy lips and strong opinions! We tried all sorts of expensive, fancy NS and myler bits, he went ok in a Pelham but has very sensitive skin so even a leather curb would rub his chin raw. I really didn't want to put him in a waterford as I too was in the 'horrible bit' camp but the second I tried it on him, it was like a switch had gone on (or maybe off!) in his head.

He hates anything with any sort of joint, either single or double so does 90% of his work in a mullen mouth hanging cheek, about 9% (just faster hacking in a group now that he's no longer jumping) in a hanging cheek Waterford and 1% - fun rides and exciting stuff like the beach - in a Waterford gag with 2 reins. This, combined with a lot of schooling means the previously unstoppable hippo will now stop mostly off my body position and voice, but even when he's at his most excited he only needs the slightest tweak on the bottom rein. Before that I'd avoid fun rides or anything in a group as he was dangerous - he broke a friend's ribs when she couldn't stop him (in a Pelham) out hunting. He tried to jump a gate, caught a leg and flipped her out of the saddle. I'd far rather that than a horrible battle in another bit that he's clearly not comfortable in. He seems to like the fluidity of the Waterford. 75% of the fussiness and head throwing stopped virtually overnight - another 20% seems to have gone now I'm using a Micklem bridle too. He still has the odd moment though - the strong opinions will never go!
 
Auslander said:
Any bit is nasty on the wrong hands. Personally, I would rather close my fingers round the reins and have instant control in a tricky situation, than be carted down the road, hauling on the reins, to stop 700kg of horse that has spooked, set it's jaw, spun and fecked off.
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Well, you can add me to the uncivilized list . . . we jumped Kali in a Waterford (with a full cheek) . . . he went in a snaffle at home, but out at clinics and competitions he got strong and forgot his manners. He was an extremely opinionated boy (who reared as an evasion) and I have no doubt that had Z hurt him in his mouth in any way, he'd have let her know by going up/putting her on the floor - he'd done it to lesser mortals. Z's hands were (are) amazing. The Waterford was for both their safety.

P

P.S. Just in case anyone wants to make a link between his rearing and the bit - Z cured him of the rearing by patiently riding him through it - as soon as he worked out she wasn't bothered by it, he stopped. Nothing to do with the bit.
 
My big mare had a waterford for XC. She was well schooled in general, could do SJ and XC training in a normal snaffle, but once on a XC course she threw her heart over the finish line and went to reclaim it!

In fact, when we went above Novice and she was fitter.... she had a Waterford Cheltnam Gag! Shock horror!!! It did have 2 reins though.

She never once had a "sore mouth" as a result, and was a big upstanding 16.3 when I was a small size 8. I found that when I knew I *could* pull up then I did not feel the inclination to ride defensively, I could relax to ride forward, and it was a nice feel.

Current horse does everything in his dressage bridle. In fact, of the 5 horses I have evented all of the others went in a plain snaffle. Horses for courses, so they say.
 
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Interesting posts. I put one on my retired event mare who was very clear in what he would accept. When she became a hacking horse only due to athritis in her neck she would be ridden on a loose rein for her comfort. Waterford worked well for the times she forgot her manners and would tank. Sometimes with bitting you just throw logic out of the window as your horse likes or dislikes a bit that shouldn't work... But does. I am exceedingly grateful that the big lad is very straightforward and needs nothing complicated ... But it is done to luck!
 
I would use one as, oh, a bike chain maybe?

Seriously.

I'm not a good enough rider to use one in an extremely sensitive part of a horse. 95% of the time I'd be fine but would prefer not to be involved in the other 5%.

(I tend to be of the feeling that no-one (at all, ever) is a good enough rider to use spurs too so not claiming total incompetence, although I'm not far off!)
 
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