Whatever your views on a badger cull in the fight against bovine TB please watch

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TED2010

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofTpfzEUUBY&feature=player_embedded

I work with bTB on a daily basis and this short film still brought tears to my eyes, how anybody could not feel sad watching it I do not know. I know its nearly 15 minutes long but please please watch it to the end and share it with as many people as you can on facebook, by email etc to raise awareness of what this terrible disease does and what a waste of beautiful life.

Thank you
 
How can they not pull out every stop to stop cattle getting bTB they think nothing of culling cattle but need to cull other animals as well or not cull any animals, alpacas are also spreading TB what would happen if stock was left to get it's own immunity? Do we as a human race intervene with animals too much as a fellow cattle and sheep farmer dread these diseases and compensation is only a small part of it, work with them 365 days a year then some test could mean an official says they need destroying, no farmer asks for these diseases but are left to pick up the pieces afterwards.
 
TED2010, thank you for bringing this to the attention of many.

We breed Shorthorn in much smaller numbers and have been in exactly the same place very recently.

The bulk of the British public have no idea what the protection of badgers bill is actually doing. I want to write reams, but the film has touched a raw nerve and I can't find the right words. Perhaps someone else will.
 
Film should go on tv for public to watch how heart rendering, but as said by vet public don't know or understand think all farmers want is to kill badgers, we need to stop this disease before it is too late.
 
Thank you for those that have watched the video and please share it with others. As you said it should be broadcast on the BBC for all to see but the best we seem to achieve is a mention on Countryfile on a Sunday evening. It is not only Cattle and Badgers that are affected by bTB but unfortunately badgers, by the way they become infected are more infectious than any other mammal. No other country has successfully eradicated TB without addressing the wildlife vector. Deer also carry and spread bTB but not to the extent that badgers do. If nothing is done eventually it will affect all of our wildlife. There were over 100 cases discovered in cats last year, several in dogs and goats. There was also a scare that some horses had become infected. Farmers do all they can and they DO care about their livestock deeply but how on earth do they practically prevent contact between their livestock and badgers without keeping them shut up in wildlife proof sheds all year round. Who wants to, or should be made to farm like that!? This film was heart wrenching and I just don't understand the mentality of people who put the lives of diseased wildlife above that of those cattle and refuse to accept that a humane cull is the only
way forward.
 
I forgot to mention Alpacas and Llamas which can also get bTB and spread it. There is no compulsory testing for these animals (which I think there should be for movements) but the Camelid society has done a huge amount to raise awareness of the issues and most owners take bio security extremely seriously and do what they can to protect their animals.
 
My cousin shoots the badgers on his land, illegal, but if it were me, I would do the same.
Years ago badgers were fairly rare, but now they are common and widespread, , so more contacts and more spread of this disease, which was under control in the 1050's 1060's and 70's.
 
Successive governments have done sweet FA to tackle this; all everyone has ever done is bury their heads in the sand.

This is happening to farmers up and down the land on a daily/weekly basis; so heartbreaking, just imagine if it was us with our horses - the whole thing is so brutal & so horrible.

The Fluffy Bunny/Badger brigade tout themselves as "animal lovers"; I've never understood why they can't extend that "compassion" to cattle and other animals who contract TB. It all seems very one-sided IMO.
 
Agree need more research but must do all we can to protect cattle and other animals from this terrible disease.
 
Defra is hopelessly useless. Remember how that Government department failed monumentally to control foot and mouth 11 years ago? I feel for Dai in Carmarthenshire, but fear he and other farmers will be let down by those idiots in charge.
 
Utterly heart breaking for him... Does anyone know if the remaining cattle passed the later test?

I was a wreck reading about Daisy a few weeks ago... I guess people just don't have the foggiest idea about the devastation for the individuals and actual numbers of cattle involved... Or are able to push it to one side under the auspice of protecting the integrity of the food chain...

Is it just Wales that will be implementing the vaccination programme rather than any cull?
 
Miss L Toe said:
My cousin shoots the badgers on his land, illegal, but if it were me, I would do the same.
Years ago badgers were fairly rare, but now they are common and widespread, , so more contacts and more spread of this disease, which was under control in the 1050's 1060's and 70's.
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Nice. Let's hope your cousin gets caught! There is no excuse for breaking the law - whether you agree or disagree.
 
The way I view that footage is that the farmer concerned is very sad obviously at the loss of his prized cattle. I feel very sorry for him and he does seem like a compassionate and caring farmer, as most are.

However, I also can't rule out that some of that footage is probably staged - and the fact that he says badgers are 'murdering' cattle by giving them TB is ridiculous to say the least!! Maybe we should get them all on an identity parade!!

I think, looking from an objective point of view, we should look at proper scientific studies (and many of them, not just one or two) to be able to come to any decision as to whether badgers should be culled or not.
 
Moomin1 said:
Nice. Let's hope your cousin gets caught! There is no excuse for breaking the law - whether you agree or disagree.
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Yes there is an excuse, he has a herd of pedigree cattle that he does not want to shoot, it is his lively hood, and his main interest in life. The animals are shot humanely.

I probably break the law most days when I drive around the town, lots of time I look down and see I am doing 31mph! Every day, I see people driving round using a mobile phone, which I consider to be a more serious offence, but people still do it ...... a lot!
If the suffragettes had not broken the law you would not have the vote, we would still have slaves in the dominions, and "own" the United States of America.
 
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Moomin1 said:
The way I view that footage is that the farmer concerned is very sad obviously at the loss of his prized cattle. I feel very sorry for him and he does seem like a compassionate and caring farmer, as most are.

However, I also can't rule out that some of that footage is probably staged - and the fact that he says badgers are 'murdering' cattle by giving them TB is ridiculous to say the least!! Maybe we should get them all on an identity parade!!

I think, looking from an objective point of view, we should look at proper scientific studies (and many of them, not just one or two) to be able to come to any decision as to whether badgers should be culled or not.
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I agree. Cattle are also bred to be killed (but usually eaten so the concept of murder is very odd), just not all at the same time...I feel for the farmers loss of livelihood, but not for the deaths of the cattle.
 
Clava said:
I agree. Cattle are also bred to be killed (but usually eaten so the concept of murder is very odd), just not all at the same time...I feel for the farmers loss of livelihood, but not for the deaths of the cattle.
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These Longhorn cattle are a rare breed, not really kept for maximum profitablity, he will presumably lose all his cattle and their genetic potential, which is irreplaceable. He breeds them, the surplus go to the abbatoir and hence to feed us humans. This is how he makes his living. Like most farmers he is proud of his cattle and seeks to improve them, he shows them, it is his reward for all the hard work, now that is all lost.
He is not a politician, just an ordinary, hard working farmer of the old school.
 
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Miss L Toe said:
He breeds them, the surplus go to the abbatoir and hence to feed us humans. This is how he makes his living. .
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So he breeds them for the pleasure of owning a rare breed? with just the surplus used to make his living? The lost of the genetics is terrible but cattle are bred to be used (for milk) and killed it is why they are bred and not for any other reason unless they are pets (or perhaps should be in a zoo to protect their species), so the idea of "murder" I find rather odd.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Yes.
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Well then I have even less sympathy for his livelihood then as it sounds more like a hobby. I don't support mass culls of any animal, but always want proper research and not staged or melodrammtic statements such as "murder" used when talking about animals bred to be killed at some point.
 
Clava said:
Well then I have even less sympathy for his livelihood then as it sounds more like a hobby.
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So does that meant you too would have less sympathy for an owner who's horse had to be put down because "it sounds more like a hobby"?!! Maybe you should rethink your statement slightly, the ownership of these animals, whether for profit, pleasure or both, is equally important as that you hold over your own animals. I personally would love for my hobby to become my way of life, as I'm sure a whole load of readers on this forum would agree.

I for one thing am not against badger culling, as my farming family in Somerset have experienced first hand how it feels to lose animals to TB. I do however agree to an extent, that we must ensure where possible that only 'unhealthy' badgers are culled. For this to happen, we have to be able to ascertain that it is definitely badgers that are causing the spread of bovine TB within the farming community, as killing for the sake of killing is not going to do DEFRA/ our governement any favours.
 
I posted the thoughts below on another thread, which was dealing with the same subject......

"I haven't read through all the responses, but from those that I have read, there seems to be a colossal amount of poorly researched replies.

Badgers are curious animals. They're our dinosaurs, if you like! They are certainly something from our past, which for centuries, despite no natural enemy, rubbed along with man, and lived, with us, a more or less harmonious existence.

Badger populations remained more or less static, for centuries I suspect. I remember my childhood very well, and finding the evidence of badgers, on a fairly regular basis, but I didn't see one until I was in my mid 20s, which would have been in the early 70s.

Our world changed after WW11, in many ways. As an example, The Forestry Commission evolved, in Southern England, the Roe deer population, most certainly because of the new found and ideal environment, exploded. There were Roe deer, EVERYWHERE!! In Hampshire they were living on motorway junctions. Hampshire certainly, was alive with them.

The badger has been given a similar environment in which to prosper. The expansion of cattle and sheep enterprises have promoted the badgers repro rates. The badger, to a large extent, lives off beetles and earth worms. With our continuing mild winters, cattle which 50 years ago were wintered "In", are now left "Out". As they're left out, the ground living creatures which survive in the dung of the cattle, and which assist he badger through the winter months, have encouraged a breeding programme which is no longer sustainable.

There is no question that we now have far more cattle, and sheep, than we actually need, and accepting that we have a healthy export market, it's the very presence of livestock which encourages such a hike in our badger population.

I cannot see how vaccinating a proportion of the badger population is going to prevent the spread of BTB. Short of completely excavating a sett, I fail to see how all badgers can be accounted for, by vaccination.

There is, as I see it, only one sensible answer; remove the badger from the list of the protected. Badgers are not easily seen, they would be difficult to find and they are not readily killed. In areas of high bovine densities, they would of course be heavily culled, and as nature abhors a vacuum, there would be a ready supply of fresh stock from the areas where they weren't killed.

For those who believe that the badger is hated, you couldn't be further from the truth. All those who farm and keep cattle, view him as a gentle giant and a dinosaur. They have no wish for eradication, just a measured and sustainable cull, which will remove or reduce the threat to their livelihoods".

I couldn't be bothered to type it all out again, so I've just dragged it across. All wildlife needs to be managed, and in a balanced way. Those who campaign for the total protection of badgers, claiming as they seem to do, that no animal needs a natural enemy, are so misguided as to be at the point where they are doing the focus of their attention, a grave disservice. To support my argument, just look at our vulpine population, and how the numbers have increased, and as the numbers have increased, so has the fox's ned for ever larger scavenging areas, which now include our cities. I accept that foxes lived an urban existence, before the ban on hunting, but none the less, the increase in numbers is already having side effects, with the spread of mange, with the parasite which spreads it being able to spread to our domestic animals.

But there we are, I suppose that all those who focus on saving the life of every living creature will for reasons which are beyond me, have a greater influence over government decisions than those who would advocate "Balance".

Alec.
 
Joanna710 said:
....... I do however agree to an extent, that we must ensure where possible that only 'unhealthy' badgers are culled. .......
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I'm sorry Joanna, but that isn't being realistic. Two points for you; firstly EVERY badger has the ability to become a carrier and therefore, a threat, and secondly, just how would it be determined, which badgers were a risk? Would you suggest that they be trapped, tested, vaccinated and released? The stress levels placed upon a wild animal when it's contained are cruelty in the extreme, and let me assure you of one thing, no wild animal has ever understood or appreciated the helping hand of a human.

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm sorry Joanna, but that isn't being realistic. Two points for you; firstly EVERY badger has the ability to become a carrier and therefore, a threat, and secondly, just how would it be determined, which badgers were a risk? Would you suggest that they be trapped, tested, vaccinated and released? The stress levels placed upon a wild animal when it's contained are cruelty in the extreme, and let me assure you of one thing, no wild animal has ever understood or appreciated the helping hand of a human.

Alec.
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Unhealthy badgers tend to be evicted from sets, so it would save a cull from targeting known sets, as the affected animals are far likely to move around alone. Call me an idealist if you like, but please note the "where possible" in my previous comment. If it's not possible, it doesn't happen, but if it can deter people from destroying whole sets then it would be a step in the right direction for both animal rights activists, and farmers alike.

And no, I'm not suggesting that we trap these animals for testing and vaccination. What I am suggesting is to target animals that are alone/ wandering, and not to destroy whole sets. Yes they are all carriers, but it is those who wander that pose more of a threat to livestock.
 
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