Whats people's thoughts of the Monty Roberts methods then

[xxMozlarxx]

You see this sums it up for me. Absolutely no offence intended here btw.. but.. I would far rather have my horse well mannered because he/she wants to be rather than because they respect/fear the outcome of a piece of gadgetry. Three out of our five will walk in from the field without a headcollar and match our pace because that is what they want to do. Of the other two, the first we made mistakes with and the other came from a home that was fairly violent to her although there are more and more days when she will walk with us.

..oh dear...I have no problem with my horse respecting (and he certainly doesnt fear it) a piece of equipment I use. He is large and quite dense, by contrast I have a much finer and more sensitive WBx who is a completely different kettle of fish and who I would never need to use a dually or similar on, he responds to the finest cues. This horse simply isn't like that and until you have experienced him I don't feel you are qualified to judge. Getting to where we are now has been a long road.

 

[Pale Rider]

All horses and their handler/rider should have a period of undemanding time together every day. A period when you're not asking for anything, just being there. Suprising what you learn during these times.

 

[Bluenoon]

Michael Peace, of course, trained with Monty Roberts (as have so many others) and so will have learned much from him (I'm sure he would agree with this).

What an interesting thread and so nice to see people discussing things without being nasty to each other. That's what makes great horse trainers/riders in my opinion. I do, however, wish to put Sue Palmer's comment above straight. Michael did not train with Monty. He simply rode on his demos for less than two years before embarking on his own career, when he realised that join up and pressure halters weren't the way forward. I am not condemning the use of these methods myself, simply saying that Michael doesn't believe in these methods or use them, so if he was Monty trained then surely he would?

Monty recognised that Michael is a very talented rider and asked him to be a rider for him until Michael then discovered his own methods through inspiration from Ray Hunt and felt he had found a way which worked more to how he believed horses should be trained. In my experience with Michael (he's helped me with a lot of my horses), he isn't in the business to sl*g other trainers off, in the same way that Carl Hester wouldn't slate Laura Bechtolsheimer or Richard Davison. Michael simply wants what is best for the horse and that's all.

If you go onto Michael's website and click on his CV you will see what he has achieved and his methods are unique. Frankie Dettori the jockey once described Michael as 'the curer' and I can totally see why.

I will leave you with a little tale. I have a really sharp mare who I am a little nervous of. I got Michael out to ride her and he simply told me that 'she's not being naughty, she's just scared, so reassure her, be confident and work with her and she will want to work with you. Horses don't go out looking for trouble'. On doing so, I now ask her nicely to do something, give her all the space she needs, so she doesn't feel trapped and praise her when she tries. Do you know what? That little mare tries very hard every day now and it's all thanks to Michael because before that I thought she was being naughty and would have reverted to pressure.

Thanks for listening and I wish everyone the best with their horses. I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't love horses and want the best for them. For me, this isn't about marketing, it's about making horses happy and Michael can do that with any horse. He is truly amazing.

 

[fburton]

Always seemed logical to me that if horse a dominates everything but horse b then copying horse b is the best way to go.

What qualities does horse b have that would be worth copying? (I'm hoping you won't say dominance!)

 

[Littlelegs]

Fburton- if I had figured out exactly what horse b did I would be a world reknown trainer by now. I did mean it more at a very basic body language way rather than I have discovered something new myself, so stuff like not edging tentatively away from a horse that threatens to kick, marching confidently closer & getting it to back off instead. But if I could figure out why some horses are just accepted to be high up without much more than a few subtle threats it would be fascinating. Think it would solve plenty of issues too if we could replicate the squeal, or its purpose, used by an angry mare to discipline a misbehaving horse too. My mare gives off an air of self confidence, even beginners have commented she gives the impression most people & horses are not worthy of her attention & beneath her, and been called snobby & arrogant too. Human qualities but I have wondered if that is something other horses pick up on hence the reason she isn't ever fully challenged, even in a new herd.

 

[Littlelegs]

Meant to add too I think for a person to copy, even self confidence in people still gets challenged initially.

 

[caramel]

I've just bought my horse a dually halter, and am going to be doing some monty roberts schooling exercises with him. I could've chosen parelli, like a lot of others on my yard, but I felt that his methods work best for me and my boy, as opposed to parelli (which after the whole catwalk fiasco put me right off!).
It'll be interesting to see how we get on, and hopefully my horse barging and pulling when led will be a thing of the past!

 

[Derfette]

Hate the Dualy as a device, mine went in the bin because I wouldn't give it away to anyone else to abuse their horse with. Work on your hands - get them better - you don't need such a gadget.

I think like alot of other "gadgets", the dually doesn't suit everyone. I've had nothing but good experiences with it (I have a horse that has been / can be a difficult loader) and wouldn't throw mine away! As long as you do alot of ground work with them first, before using one for whatever problem you've got, I believe they are well worth having in your tack room. I think Monty Roberts is well worth going to see too!

 

[tess1]

I'm always a bit skeptical when someone logs on just to sing the praises of a certain trainer - especially *this* certain trainer. Whilst I enjoyed watching a demo by Michael Peace, liked his philosophy and what he said he did - so much so that I sent two of my horses to him, the reality was sadly different. One horse came away with little change to his behaviour, whilst the other horse's behaviour deteriorated considerably. I felt that Michael's teaching and communication skills were somewhat lacking. I also saw him do things that made me very uncomfortable - but fool that I was then I did not speak up or challenge him on it. I am pleased that other people have had more positive results, we must all speak as we find - there is always more than one side to every story.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

All horses and their handler/rider should have a period of undemanding time together every day. A period when you're not asking for anything, just being there. Suprising what you learn during these times.

Yep agree, do this all the time with all my horses, and always have, in stable, field or before, during or after work sometimes all 3.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

I will leave you with a little tale. I have a really sharp mare who I am a little nervous of. I got Michael out to ride her and he simply told me that 'she's not being naughty, she's just scared, so reassure her, be confident and work with her and she will want to work with you. Horses don't go out looking for trouble'. On doing so, I now ask her nicely to do something, give her all the space she needs, so she doesn't feel trapped and praise her when she tries. Do you know what? That little mare tries very hard every day now and it's all thanks to Michael because before that I thought she was being naughty and would have reverted to pressure.
He is truly amazing.

No disrespect but what you're describing above is very very basic stuff that any decent horse person would/could recognise and do. I'm sure Michael is very good but your quote above is not a good example of anything extraordinary

 

[fburton]

All horses and their handler/rider should have a period of undemanding time together every day. A period when you're not asking for anything, just being there. Suprising what you learn during these times.

This is very good advice! Commonsense? Not so sure...

 

[fburton]

I'm always a bit skeptical when someone logs on just to sing the praises of a certain trainer - especially *this* certain trainer.

It has happened more than once here, hasn't it? The suspicious side of me find it... well... suspicious.

 

[shaskeen]

Went to see a Monty demo about 16 years ago - where he was to "START" untouched 3 year olds - not a flinch out of them when the roller shutters doors went up to bring them in to the round pen these untouched horses had beautifully pulled manes and tails all feathers and feet trimmed, a shine to their coats that a hoys finalist would be proud of - so how were they untouched - a load of B******S - I would have preferred to have seen a few totally wild Welsh Mountain ponies covered in mud and burrs and see how he got on from there

Thats my point and what I saw

 

[talkinghorse]

Went to see a Monty demo about 16 years ago - where he was to "START" untouched 3 year olds …

The requirement for a starter:
The starter should be a normal horse that has not had saddle, bridle or rider before. This horse should be sound and healthy. It can be filly, colt or gelding. The type of horse should be the most typical for the audience we have.

How are these "untouched"?

I have seen "untouched" horses at a demo, these are never starters and unloaded loose from a trailer, backed into the round pen. They have a first headcollar and are touched all over and have their feet picked up. That's the end of their demo.

 

[Bluenoon]

It has happened more than once here, hasn't it? The suspicious side of me find it... well... suspicious.

Such a shame that I can't speak highly of a trainer because he's done wonders for my horse. I also speak highly of Carl Hester and Andrew Day, but I guess I won't be slated for that. I simply wanted to share my views, but am losing confidence posting on here if that's the reception I'm going to get. It's such a shame.

 

[Bluenoon]

No disrespect but what you're describing above is very very basic stuff that any decent horse person would/could recognise and do. I'm sure Michael is very good but your quote above is not a good example of anything extraordinary

This was a huge breakthrough for me, so I feel sad that you think that. It stopped me giving up on a horse that I loved dearly and wanted to gain confidence with. Up until Michael came out, she was terrifying me to death because I wasn't giving her enough space to go forward, so she was panicking.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

This was a huge breakthrough for me, so I feel sad that you think that. It stopped me giving up on a horse that I loved dearly and wanted to gain confidence with. Up until Michael came out, she was terrifying me to death because I wasn't giving her enough space to go forward, so she was panicking.

No need to feel sad, I've watched Michael on You tube and I really like what he does, all I'm saying is I don't feel what you are describing is exceptional, thats not to say it wasnt a lighbulb moment for you, sometimes it is the simple things that we overlook with our own horses.

 

[Bluenoon]

No need to feel sad, I've watched Michael on You tube and I really like what he does, all I'm saying is I don't feel what you are describing is exceptional, thats not to say it wasnt a lighbulb moment for you, sometimes it is the simple things that we overlook with our own horses.

Thanks. I have had Michael out a few times and could go on to describe all the other things that I found exceptional about him, but I won't. Glad you like what he does, too. After all, we all want what's best for our horses, surely? You would be amazed by how many trainers would have told me to use pressure and flooding methods to allow this horse to become rideable. Michael simply told me to give her space and now she is on side. Just had a great ride on her tonight.

 

[neelie OAP]

All horses and their handler/rider should have a period of undemanding time together every day. A period when you're not asking for anything, just being there. Suprising what you learn during these times.

This is a good point, but how many people do do this, they are all so busy these days and would think it a waste of time, but as we both know that is just not the case, and yes there is alot we can learn from it