When and how do you decide enough is enough?

[Cheshire Chestnut]

The mightmare of having my boy PTS is now a sad and devastating reality.

You may or may not have seen my other thread about being disheartened; he basically got a cough in April and after tests, operations, biopsies and a long stay at Leahurst, he was diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis (PF). PF is scarring of the lungs, which is permanent terminal damage, there is no cure or treatment. He's 8 years old, Welsh D and always been very active and healthy. This was a shock and the vet said very unlucky. Not much is even known about PF in humans, let alone in horses, however the vet said if he was the equivelant in human years (let's say 35 for arguments' sake), then he's be on the list for a full heart and lung transplant.

He went on a course of Equisolone for 4 weeks, along with his nebuliser that he has steroid and ventolin through twice per day. His vein in his neck got a huge clot in it that was drained and then it collapsed and no longer works. He seemed to make a really good recovery on the Equisolone but it's now two weeks since he's been off it and the decline has started already. It hasn't worked - just paused it for 4 weeks. He could may be on them again for another 4 weeks but it means he can't go out in the field with his friends due to lami and is just stuck in his stable, which he hates and makes him miserable.

Took him for a hack today and had a fast canter up a slight hill. It was about 200m or so but he only got half way and started to cough, gasping for breath so bad he had his mouth open. I cried and we walked home. Realisation has hit me that my boy will never ever get better.

Vet has been honest and said the PF will kill him, it leads to cardiac arrest in most cases, he's just can't say how long - weeks, months, years - who knows. PF is typically seen in horses around their mid teens, so his coming about at 8 shows that it is fast developing. Vet doesn't think he will make it through spring with the pollen and dust. Can't turn him away as his nebuliser is only just keeping his life bearable. Being turned out all the time wouldn't be possible with him needing it. He heaves when he breaths just walking about. I've maxed out over £5000 on his insurance so I'm on my own paying for anything from now on, I've just bought a £700 nebuliser of our own but I can't afford anymore treatment, even though the vet has said there's nothing else they can do anyway.

So, what do I do? He's full of life and still loving being here, but I know he's suffering. Vet has said horses keep going until they can't anymore and it takes a lot for them to show suffering. I know he must be finding things harder than he makes out. Do I wait until he almost gives up and then gives me the 'knowing look' at wanting to go? Do I let him go now, full of life and full of character? Do I wait around in hope of a miracle happening that he will just stay the same and not get worse? How can you ever make the right decision? I feel like any of the options could be the wrong one. I'm so heartbroken and can't believe this is happening and I'm even talking about this

 

[Michen]

Massive hugs. It's horrid isn't it. I think you've answered your own question though. Better too early than too late, you've done everything you can and its only going to get worse. Xxx

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Massive hugs. It's horrid isn't it. I think you've answered your own question though. Better too early than too late, you've done everything you can and its only going to get worse. Xxx

Thanks for the hug, I need them Have you been there? It's the worst feeling I think I've ever felt.

 

[maisie06]

What a horrible time for you. I think too, that you have already made a decision, better a week too early than a day too late. You have done everything you possibly can for him and as the vet says the condition is terminal. Huge hugs from me too xx

 

[OldNag]

I have only been through this decision with an older pony but I really go by the saying, as Michen said above, better a month too early than a day too late.
Honestly? Better to let them go before they are really suffering.

Big hugs to you OP, what a horrible situation x

 

[Michen]

Yes http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?701753-One-last-evening-my-beautiful-boy-Torres

Its the most awful pain and I still struggle with it now xxxxx

Thanks for the hug, I need them Have you been there? It's the worst feeling I think I've ever felt.

 

[crabbymare]

with winter coming most yards will be starting to have horses in at night and then when the weather changes to wet most will then restrict or stop turnout. no idea what your yard does but assuming they do this is good in that yours will not be in alone and others will be around all the time but with his breathing I would think he would have a problem with the dust that would normally increase from horses around im being mucked out and having new bedding (and hay?) put in which I imagine would not be good for him so in your position I would chat to the vet but would probably keep him on the nebuliser and be looking to let him go sooner rather than later. what a horrible position to be in for you

 

[Deltaflyer]

I had to do it with a 9 year old sweetheart of a mare I used to have. It was heart breaking but it was the right thing for her as she was never going to be able to even be turned out for the odd hour as she suffered too much pain in her affected joint. There was nothing that could be done to alleviate it and she was relatively pain free in her stable as she didn't have to move too much. I made the decision before she started to go downhill so that her last days where as pleasant for her as they could be.

I did the same with my 25 year old pony who had arthritis in both back legs. We had a mild autumn so she was able to live out but as soon as the weather turned I made the decision as she couldn't winter out and would have been miserable as sin being stabled without being worked. She had already lost her spark which in itself was so sad.

Both decisions were made based on quality of life and PTS before their lives became days and nights of total misery.

It's a horrible, horrible decision to have to make and you have to make it for them.

You have my utmost sympathy as it's one of the most heart breaking decisions any animal owner has to make.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Thank you everyone. I honestly don't think I'll ever stop crying. I can't even look at a photo of him, I buried my face in his furry ears tonight and just sobbed. My heart hurts so much, I don't know what I'll ever do without his gorgeous little face in my life.

I'm so sorry Michen, I know exactly how you're feeling and it's the worst feeling in the world. You were so brave and if Torres could speak to you now he'd thank you for being such an amazing mum and always keeping his best interests at heart. Xx

 

[celticdiamond]

I had to make this decision 2 weeks ago for my 9yo warmblood. He had wobblers syndrome that was rapidly deteriorating but he'd had a summer out in the field with his best buddies and eating so much grass. It's better a day too early than too late for sure, I could have waited but didn't want him to lose his dignity. I understand your situation is slightly different, but in the end we all know what's best for our horses. It's such a hard thing to go through, I send massive hugs as know how difficult it is to say the words to the vet. Remember animals don't know what's going to happen, my boy came out of his field and was gone within 2 minutes none the wiser xx

 

[Haniki]

What a heart-breaking decision for you op.
I'm so sorry.
It's hard enough with an older horse but for a young one it must be so hard.

 

[Doris68]

My heart goes out to you. I had my mare PTS in March, she was 29 and I'd had her for 25 years. It was the right decision but it broke my heart to make it. Six months on and I still grieve. You will know which is the best decision and although it'll pain you to make it...you're a kind and caring owner and will do what is right for your lovely horse. I'm so very sorry - stay strong.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Choose a time and day and let yourself work towards that, your horse doesn't know and will never know. That is what I have done, two weeks to let them enjoy what they enjoy doing most and it gives you time to slowly say goodbye.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thank you everyone. I honestly don't think I'll ever stop crying. I can't even look at a photo of him, I buried my face in his furry ears tonight and just sobbed. My heart hurts so much, I don't know what I'll ever do without his gorgeous little face in my life.

I'm so sorry Michen, I know exactly how you're feeling and it's the worst feeling in the world. You were so brave and if Torres could speak to you now he'd thank you for being such an amazing mum and always keeping his best interests at heart. Xx

I so know how you feel I had my mare pts just over two months ago, I got her through a bad case of laminitis she was doing so well only for it to come back two months later, I couldn't see her go through the pain of it again she was a big horse but god she was brave and fought so hard even though she was in agony, it broke my heart to make that call but I know she is pain free and I know it was the right thing I did everything I could.

I have tears streaming down my face as I really do feel your heartache, you have done everything you can for him and that's all you can do at the end of the day, I am so sorry your going through it its just horrible so you can have a big hug from me x

 

[Riz]

I've been following your other thread & just wanted to say that you sound like an amazing owner. He is lucky to have you. Sadly it sounds like PTS is going to be the kindest thing for him & awfully hard for you :-(
I lost my chap aged 28 after having him in my life for over 23 years-& it was crushing, but to lose such a young horse is always so unfair. It is far better to let them go when they are feeling well-personally I would PTS before the weather turns.....& you can at least know that you tried absolutely everything you could.

 

[chillipup]

So sorry to hear such sad news about your boy, big giant hugs from me to you both.

So now is the time for you to be really, really strong for him. You know that his quality of life is not what it should be, that he is not getting any better and you said yourself that he is suffering.

Cheshire Chestnut, you need to be strong for your boy and stand up for him. Be the bravest of brave and show him just how much you love and care for him by letting him to go without further suffering, without worry and without pain. Show him how much he really means to you by allowing him go with honor and dignity.
I know it's tough...really tough.. and it is the most dreadful feeling but if he has been a best friend to you; you must now show him that you are, by doing this most selfless act, his ultimate best friend, in return.

If you are on your own/need someone to lend a hand or any other help, please PM me.

Chillipup.

 

[Floxie]

I've had pets put to sleep 'too soon' (despite my personal belief that there's no such thing) - I felt awful about it but I can honestly say nothing like as bad as when I waited until it was obviously the time - which is nearly always a little too late. I suppose I'd rather feel guilty about possibly cheating them out of a few more days than feel the guilt of keeping them suffering a day more than was necessary.

Not that I'm suggesting either is the easier option; they're both horrible x

 

[Enfys]

It's a tough call and you have my every sympathy. Being grown up and taking the responsibility absolutely sucks at times.

I think that quality of life over quantity is something that you have to take into account. I would rather have a horse pts before the light goes out of their eyes and living becomes an effort. Horses do not know we have made a decision for them, they don't suffer the anticipation that we do, they don't know, anyone who has to make that call can console themselves the tiniest bit with that thought.

Thinking of you.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I cried most of last night and couldn't sleep - when I did sleep, I had nightmares.

Last night I decided I wanted it to be done ASAP, I couldn't put myself through all the weeks of last goodbyes and 'last ride', 'last time I'd muck him out', 'last time I'd lead him to the field' etc... But today I feel like I want more time. I feel I need to say goodbye properly. I won't ever be ready - who ever is? Don't even know how to make myself ready. Lost.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

And so so sorry to everyone else for their losses, I really really do feel your pain What lucky horses to have such wonderful owners in you all x

 

[Sandstone1]

I'm so sorry. It's such a difficult thing.
While I agree that is better done too soon than too late it's important that you do things when you feel it's time.
Maybe first decide what you want to happen afterwards. Ie cremation etc. Have that sorted out in your mind and any arrangements made beforehand.
When you feel ready decide which method is best for you and your horse and have that in place. Remember to have some support for yourself there on the day.
Once you have it sorted out in your mind you can concentrate on making your horses last days or weeks special.
Lots of fuss and treats and grooming. Take lots of photos etc.
This may not be the best way for you but if you have the arrangements sorted out first it may just make it a little bit easier to bear.
Again I'm so sorry.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

So sorry, what a shame. If it was my horse, I would retire him & keep him in the field if he coped well enough with that.

 

[Sheep]

So sorry, what a shame. If it was my horse, I would retire him & keep him in the field if he coped well enough with that.

I suspect due to the progressive and debilitating nature of this disease, that is not going to be a viable or humane option for this poor, poor boy.

I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation, OP. I cannot imagine how difficult it must be, or how devastated you must be feeling. I think though in your shoes I would make the decision while he is still bright and not suffering too much. Huge hugs.xxx

 

[fatpiggy]

So sorry, what a shame. If it was my horse, I would retire him & keep him in the field if he coped well enough with that.

But you don't understand! PF is a progressive disease, it can only EVER get worse because the only thing that can slow it down, not stop it, is steroids. OP, in humans there are two types. The one that my father got which occurs in older people and diagnosis to death is generally 5 years, and the type that slightly younger people get (mid 40s) which worsens more slowly. My friend's father had that version and lived about 20 years with it. Only you can decide when is the right time but I can promise you that once it is done and he is gone, the relief you will feel will overwhelm you almost as much as your grief. It is torturing you now, hour after hour, and I know just how you feel. Would Bonfire Night be a problem around your way, with all the smoke? My girl was terrified of fireworks and that was a factor in deciding what date she would be PTS. Sometimes we just have to admit that despite all our hopes and best efforts, we have run out of weapons and then we have only one thing left to fight with, and that is to cheat Death by blowing out the candle yourself. Having watched my Dad suffer and die I can tell you with absolute certainty that if I was diagnosed with PF, I'd be off to Switzerland PDQ.

 

[ozpoz]

So sorry for you Cheshire Chestnut. It is always very, very hard to make the decision but even harder when the horse is young. Poor him and you, to be in this situation.
I echo the sentiments of Fatpiggy above, and would only add that PF must be worse in a flight animal. I would be taking the 5th November added risks into account too.

He will know that he is loved, and you will know you have done the right thing - big hugs to you. xx

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

But you don't understand! PF is a progressive disease, it can only EVER get worse because the only thing that can slow it down, not stop it, is steroids. OP, in humans there are two types. The one that my father got which occurs in older people and diagnosis to death is generally 5 years, and the type that slightly younger people get (mid 40s) which worsens more slowly. My friend's father had that version and lived about 20 years with it. Only you can decide when is the right time but I can promise you that once it is done and he is gone, the relief you will feel will overwhelm you almost as much as your grief. It is torturing you now, hour after hour, and I know just how you feel. Would Bonfire Night be a problem around your way, with all the smoke? My girl was terrified of fireworks and that was a factor in deciding what date she would be PTS. Sometimes we just have to admit that despite all our hopes and best efforts, we have run out of weapons and then we have only one thing left to fight with, and that is to cheat Death by blowing out the candle yourself. Having watched my Dad suffer and die I can tell you with absolute certainty that if I was diagnosed with PF, I'd be off to Switzerland PDQ.

Thank you fatpiggy, I know you have been so supportive and understanding right from my very first post about this. You're right, retiring him and turning him out wouldn't be a solution - he'd most likely suffer more without any twice daily medication via his nebuliser and the PF would run its own horrible wicked course anyway regardless to whether he was retired or still in steady work.

I have a feeling I will feel some relief once he's gone - for him and for me (as selfish as it sounds). Although I can't see or feel it yet. It's been almost 7 months of long periods waiting for test results, heartbreak over and over from saying goodbye at every step not thinking he'd pull through his operations, and also living on false hope - it's exhausting. I've tried every single method suggested by the vets, I've done everything by the book and still no success. I feel I can't do anymore to help him, and that in itself, kills me

I have arranged to take him to the beach on Sunday - somewhere I've always wanted to take him and never got round to in almost 3 years. My kind friend has arranged her photographer husband to come take some pictures of us two, our last ride. I have promised myself although I will be dying of heartbreak inside, Sunday will be a happy day; it's meant to be sunny (please everyone keep you fingers crossed!), my friend is bringing her dogs (my boy loves dogs) and I'm taking a picnic for us all. Might even sneak in a bottle of prosecco too - we are going to celebrate his life, not cry over his death.

I will miss him so much but that little pony has made me so happy over the last few years and owes me nothing - it will be an honour to make his last week special for him. X

 

[Sheep]

But you don't understand! PF is a progressive disease, it can only EVER get worse because the only thing that can slow it down, not stop it, is steroids. OP, in humans there are two types. The one that my father got which occurs in older people and diagnosis to death is generally 5 years, and the type that slightly younger people get (mid 40s) which worsens more slowly. My friend's father had that version and lived about 20 years with it. Only you can decide when is the right time but I can promise you that once it is done and he is gone, the relief you will feel will overwhelm you almost as much as your grief. It is torturing you now, hour after hour, and I know just how you feel. Would Bonfire Night be a problem around your way, with all the smoke? My girl was terrified of fireworks and that was a factor in deciding what date she would be PTS. Sometimes we just have to admit that despite all our hopes and best efforts, we have run out of weapons and then we have only one thing left to fight with, and that is to cheat Death by blowing out the candle yourself. Having watched my Dad suffer and die I can tell you with absolute certainty that if I was diagnosed with PF, I'd be off to Switzerland PDQ.

Gosh, this post made me well up at my desk. Hard hitting but I agree with every word.

 

[Cheshire Chestnut]

Gosh, this post made me well up at my desk. Hard hitting but I agree with every word.

Me too, I'm a mess. Just answered the door to the postman and he even asked if I was ok!

 

[teacups]

No helpful advice, just wanted to say I'm so sorry to hear this. Must be very hard, and emotionally draining.

 

[ester]

Is there no option for him to go on full grass livery somewhere where his nebuliser can still be administered? I know that was mentioned by myself and others on your previous post.

At the moment his breathing not lami is the crucial issue and I do not think you can expect him to improve when stabled and IME barn environments however airy they may seem can be the worst for this type of horse. If he goes out and gets lami, well then the decision is made for you. If he continues to deteriorate the decision is made for you but you will be making it in the knowledge that you did try that alternative lifestyle first.

I have to say that horrid though this situation is for you that given your previous post saying that his cough and wheezing was coming back I am surprised to read he was cantering.