When old horses stop lying down..

[poiuytrewq]

Timely thread given a very large equine influencer recently uploaded a video of themselves on TikTok physically lifting their elderly equine to its feet to funny music.

Hopefully that lost them a hell of a lot of followers! Wtf!

 

[Maddie Moo]

Hopefully that lost them a hell of a lot of followers! Wtf!

The worse bit is that they probably being applauded by all their followers

 

[Boughtabay]

Hopefully that lost them a hell of a lot of followers! Wtf!

The video seems to be gaining a little bit of heat slowly (that’s how I saw it - via someone else pointing out it was wrong) but a lot of the comments are younger (it seems) people saying how amazing they are for helping, how cute it is helping the “old man” up etc. “you wouldn’t put your nan down because she’s struggling to walk” type of stuff

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The video seems to be gaining a little bit of heat slowly (that’s how I saw it - via someone else pointing out it was wrong) but a lot of the comments are younger (it seems) people saying how amazing they are for helping, how cute it is helping the “old man” up etc. “you wouldn’t put your nan down because she’s struggling to walk” type of stuff

I also scrolled past this video, typed out a comment then deleted it as all the other comments (bar one to be fair) were applauding her... I did wonder when I clicked on this thread whether it would be related.

I am another who would PTS at any sign of struggling to get up.

 

[Wishfilly]

Timely thread given a very large equine influencer recently uploaded a video of themselves on TikTok physically lifting their elderly equine to its feet to funny music.

If it's who I think it is (with the donkeys?) then I think it's been going on for a long time, and it's really irresponsible to suggest to a young audience this is okay!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

If it's who I think it is (with the donkeys?) then I think it's been going on for a long time, and it's really irresponsible to suggest to a young audience this is okay!

It is she

 

[TheMule]

My OH is an emergency vet and he is called out at least once a week to an old horse that can’t get up, especially in cold weather like this. It's a miserable way for them to end up. Sometimes they get them up, but usually he's out there again relatively soon.

 

[JoannaC]

I'm keeping a close eye on my section A, he only lies down in the field never in the stable but he does sleep flat out so i have to check he hasn't died! I didn't expect him to still be here this Winter but whilst he is perky and loving his food and able to get up he can stay. It is hard to know when is best I don't want to leave it too late but it's hard to do it when they still have a spark.

 

[marmalade76]

Timely thread given a very large equine influencer recently uploaded a video of themselves on TikTok physically lifting their elderly equine to its feet to funny music.

I've not seen that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Having to have pts an old and stiff horse which is found down in the field on a wet and stormy winter’s night and can’t be raised, and is illuminated only by the vet‘s headlights, is not the way to go .

Not my horse. Grim.

I watch my 3 pasture ornaments very carefully if I see them rolling or about to get up from a sleep to check that they can all still get up easily. If any of them start finding that difficult, the call will be made.

 

[Apercrumbie]

It was suggested that he stayed on bute but they said oh no...that will damage his liver

Ooooo this POV makes me wild with anger. We had a horse on bute for over 6 weeks due to injury and two people kept telling me about it damaging his liver and trying to persuade me to take him off it. Apparently herbs would work instead - he would have been in agony! One finally got the point when I repeatedly said "I don't believe it is acceptable to leave an animal in pain". Ever since I get furious whenever I hear someone say it though.

OP I agree with the consensus here - if they can't get up then for me it's time. I would want to check that though using cameras, as some won't lie down if humans are near.

 

[Boughtabay]

I've not seen that.

Sorry didn’t mean to imply that you were referring to that situation, just thought it was an interesting contrast that here everyone is overwhelmingly for PTS before it’s an emergency when the comments on that video were largely supporting lifting an equine more often than a one off

 

[Celtic Jewel]

I agree with the "competitive aging" comment above. I was absolutely disgusted with an acquaintance who kept their old mare going past all that was reasonable just so he could say she was 34. They were getting her up with a tractor for the last few months of her life, she was absolutely crippled with arthritis, toothless, and miserable in that last winter.

A very famous youtube called this Esme that a lot of people like on this forum has 35 year old donkey she pick ups every morning and constantly brags about it picking on tictok . She obviously got a lot a hate and basically made a response tictok said she won’t pts until her can’t walk or when a vet tells her and Esme vet is from a big vet hospital so not vets don’t tell people to pts . She is a patron for world horse welfare and donkey rescue.

 

[Orangehorse]

We were always told by an old nagsman/dealer that when they couldn't get up it was time to say goodbye, because being a flight animal it causes them stress to be stuck not able to move. Also by that time they must be weak or it is very painful.

They had a pony grazing in the field that was 40.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Ooooo this POV makes me wild with anger. We had a horse on bute for over 6 weeks due to injury and two people kept telling me about it damaging his liver and trying to persuade me to take him off it. Apparently herbs would work instead - he would have been in agony! One finally got the point when I repeatedly said "I don't believe it is acceptable to leave an animal in pain". Ever since I get furious whenever I hear someone say it though.

OP I agree with the consensus here - if they can't get up then for me it's time. I would want to check that though using cameras, as some won't lie down if humans are near.

I had similar with my 23yo cat when she was prescribed thyroid meds, they said she had to go back every 8 weeks for a blood test before they would prescribe again to make sure it wasn’t affecting her kidneys, and she found it VERY stressful. My point was that at that age she will die of something and if we stop the medication because of hey kidneys the thyroid will kill her, or vice versa so the blood test is redundant stress. Thankfully they relented once I’d argued the toss with the receptionist.

 

[ponynutz]

Just watched the explanation video and I think there is a key point in there that it isn’t all the time and someone is always there to help him up (not sure what happens at night?). For me this does settle it slightly for me, if his QOL is good and it isn’t 24/7 he’s having to be picked up maybe it isn’t time?

The part that did really concern me was the suggestion he was being kept alive so the other one wouldn’t have to be PTS…

 

[scats]

I would PTS. If a horse can lo longer get down to have its REM sleep, it will start experiencing signs of narcolepsy.
Friends in laws elderly horse is currently in that position but won’t make a decision.

As for Esme, I think it’s horrifying that she thinks that’s ok. Vets will rarely suggest PTS, so no doubt she thinks if they haven’t told her outright, there’s no reason to. One donkey is crippled with arthritis when it walks.
It’s the classic case of loving an animal so much that you’ll let it suffer rather than make a difficult decision.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

It’s one of the factors which would lead me to put my 26year old down….that and when she stops marching me to the field.

 

[Winters100]

The video seems to be gaining a little bit of heat slowly (that’s how I saw it - via someone else pointing out it was wrong) but a lot of the comments are younger (it seems) people saying how amazing they are for helping, how cute it is helping the “old man” up etc. “you wouldn’t put your nan down because she’s struggling to walk” type of stuff

I really cannot bear this comparing animals to humans. I mean your Grandmother who is struggling to walk probably has a call bell or a phone next to her bed, and can summon help if needed. She can understand her limitations and is not terrified by lying in bed. She can enjoy reading or being read to, watching television, talking to the family. When people say that there is always someone there to help a horse I doubt it is true. Someone is observing the horse 24/7?

Keeping animals going too long is simply abuse, because we have the ability to end their suffering painlessly and without stress. In the last few years 2 horses in our stable have been put to sleep, and in both cases they were kept going far too long. In one case I found YO, a tough and sensible man, crying in the stable over one horse, saying that he could not bear to see it anymore. In the end the owner finally agreed to PTS, but only after a lot of pressure from YO.

I actually also believe that euthanasia should be legal for people, but of course that is another issue.

 

[meleeka]

In one case I found YO, a tough and sensible man, crying in the stable over one horse, saying that he could not bear to see it anymore. In the end the owner finally agreed to PTS, but only after a lot of pressure from YO.

For me it’s incredibly stressful when they aren’t right and I can’t understand how people can see it every day and not want it to stop. Perhaps others are able to go home and not think about their old horses, but I couldn’t.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I really cannot bear this comparing animals to humans. I mean your Grandmother who is struggling to walk probably has a call bell or a phone next to her bed, and can summon help if needed. She can understand her limitations and is not terrified by lying in bed. She can enjoy reading or being red to, watching television, talking to the family. When people say that there is always someone there to help a horse I doubt it is true. Someone is observing the horse 24/7?

Keeping animals going too long is simply abuse, because we have the ability to end their suffering painlessly and without stress. In the last few years 2 horses in our stable have been put to sleep, and in both cases they were kept going far too long. In one case I found YO, a tough and sensible man, crying in the stable over one horse, saying that he could not bear to see it anymore. In the end the owner finally agreed to PTS, but only after a lot of pressure from YO.

I actually also believe that euthanasia should be legal for people, but of course that is another issue.

And actually a lot of elderly people who are in the same sort of pain as these animals blighted by terrible arthritis would say that they aren't sad their time is nearly up... morbid but true

 

[Cortez]

Just watched the explanation video and I think there is a key point in there that it isn’t all the time and someone is always there to help him up (not sure what happens at night?). For me this does settle it slightly for me, if his QOL is good and it isn’t 24/7 he’s having to be picked up maybe it isn’t time?

The part that did really concern me was the suggestion he was being kept alive so the other one wouldn’t have to be PTS…

What utter and complete nonsense. Extremely cruel.

 

[Apercrumbie]

And actually a lot of elderly people who are in the same sort of pain as these animals blighted by terrible arthritis would say that they aren't sad their time is nearly up... morbid but true

Lordy I think most of us will have had relatives whose last months/years were just awful for them and they would have gladly gone given the choice. I know that doesn't happen to everyone but the suffering of the elderly can be so grim.

 

[Cortez]

I really cannot bear this comparing animals to humans. I mean your Grandmother who is struggling to walk probably has a call bell or a phone next to her bed, and can summon help if needed. She can understand her limitations and is not terrified by lying in bed. She can enjoy reading or being red to, watching television, talking to the family. When people say that there is always someone there to help a horse I doubt it is true. Someone is observing the horse 24/7?

Keeping animals going too long is simply abuse, because we have the ability to end their suffering painlessly and without stress. In the last few years 2 horses in our stable have been put to sleep, and in both cases they were kept going far too long. In one case I found YO, a tough and sensible man, crying in the stable over one horse, saying that he could not bear to see it anymore. In the end the owner finally agreed to PTS, but only after a lot of pressure from YO.

I actually also believe that euthanasia should be legal for people, but of course that is another issue.

Very simply, grandmothers are not horses, there is no comparison whatsoever between how a human exists in the world and a horses needs.

 

[ponynutz]

What utter and complete nonsense. Extremely cruel.

Something about donkeys befriending each other for life and if the one who can't stand is put down the other will die anyway/need PTS?

I hope nobody is reading my first comment as me agreeing with her, I just think it is hard to judge online and given she doesn't have a voice on this forum I'd share her view on the situation.

 

[Cortez]

Something about donkeys befriending each other for life and if the one who can't stand is put down the other will die anyway/need PTS?

I hope nobody is reading my first comment as me agreeing with her, I just think it is hard to judge online and given she doesn't have a voice on this forum I'd share her view on the situation.

Yeah, it did read as if you were rather pro TBH. Donkeys do bond very strongly, but that’s no reason to torture either one, and it sounds as if they are both in poor condition. If they are that concerned they should get another donkey as a replacement companion, not keep the poor thing going. Sentimentality is not compassion.

 

[equinerebel]

ETA - I didn't realise the influencer had already been named on this thread so I retract my question!

She is very popular and works a lot with pony magazine and Le Mieux, so has a very young fanbase. Typically of novices.

IMO - if a horse cannot get up by itself, it's time.

 

[Mudfukkle]

I would PTS if they can’t comfortably get down and back up again

I agree entirely. My horse owning vet, who was very experienced, told me that not being able to get up from laying down is a big red flag!

Other red flags she quoted as:

• Being able to have the feet attended to by the farrier without causing pain (not short term obviously)
• Not being able to eat and sustain weight
• Pain unable to be managed
• Quality of life (again long term)

 

[Fransurrey]

I've mentioned elsewhere that my criteria for an old animal being put to sleep consists of their ability to perform behaviours that they consider critical.

Can they eat?
Can they defecate/urinate?
Can they lie down and get up?
Can they escape danger?
Is pain managed?

I've known a few horses fail on some or all of these, because the owners want to delay the inevitable. Never ends well. My mare is now on daily bute as she was uncomfortable without. She's now trotting around again, but the first sign she's uncomfortable, that's it. As far as I'm concerned, the bute buys me time to put something in place for her ridden companion. If I have to up the dose to 'acute injury' levels, then I'll let her go with dignity.

 

[Fransurrey]

The video seems to be gaining a little bit of heat slowly (that’s how I saw it - via someone else pointing out it was wrong) but a lot of the comments are younger (it seems) people saying how amazing they are for helping, how cute it is helping the “old man” up etc. “you wouldn’t put your nan down because she’s struggling to walk” type of stuff

My response to those comments is that I wouldn't video my nan being helped up and put it to funny music for people on the internet to laugh at, either!!!