When WOULD you hit a horse? Or would you?

[LaurenBay]

I've once given my share Horse a big wallop!

She's 15 and knows what back means and usually is good to handle. One day I was turning her out, her friends kept calling for her and she started to get very prancy and strong, we then had to go past a tree and a gap in the bush were she could clearly see her friends, However you can not get into the field this way and have to walk past it. She had other ideas and dragged me through the gap and into the tree, I was pinned between her and the tree. I asked her to back up but she wouldnt move away, she was still barging into me and I could hear my ribs cracking. So I walloped her on the head she jumped back then I gave her another wallop on the shoulder. That was the first and last time she has ever done that!!

I felt very bad as she wasn't my Horse to discipline, so I called the owner and told her what happened. She said she would've done the same thing and was glad I had hit her otherwise I could've seriously hurt myself.

 

[Flame_]

A lot of stuff horses do people mis read, I had a hunter once who used to pick walkers up by the shoulder and give them a shake, people said he was dangerous, all he was doing was looking for sandwich's, a walker had fed him one once, once that s all it took.

Until I read this, I quite admired your stance, even though I considered it a bit narrow-minded, but WTF? If you want to allow any bad behavior from your horse towards you to go unpunished that is entirely up to you, but if you are going to take your horse near other people and it does stuff like picking them up you are a damn sight worse than fluffy mate, you are dangerous.

Going back to my horse. Even if i decided that he would come to terms with gates in his own time through patience, understanding and repetition, and I was prepared to overlook and accept my own, and his, near death experiences in the mean time, car drivers have a right not to have horses leaping out in front of them. I think you have a responsibility to get your horse in line one way or another if its behavior affects other people.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

My point was that, in my experience, violence can escalate extremely quickly and can leave you in a situation which you are no longer in control of. My lad is no small pony, he is 17-2hh of attitude. He needed boundaries fixing but hitting was not the way to deal with him, it had been tried and had made him even more aggressive. Most horses will react to being smacked by moving away, but some won't. Some will attack, my lad was one of those. So new solutions had to be found or someone was going to get hurt.

So I think, as ever , maybe it is better to suit what you do to the horse in front of you. Fany got a light tap on the chest when she used to barge, that was fine it worked for her.So maybe I was hasty to say never, rather I should have said never on my lad.

FDC

 

[Fellewell]

I'm still wondering why the no-whip-in-my-yard people think it is better, from some of these posts, to take years to get a horse trained "properly" than it is to ever use a whip.

With a horse that came to me scared of whips, I would carry a whip everywhere with me. Whenever I handled that horse I would have a whip there, with food, with strokes, with every good thing that happens to it. Or as close as you could get the whip at the time. It would eat and drink from a bucket with a whip in it. Quite quickly it would reach a stage where I could touch the horse with the whip and then stroke it all over with it. Eventually I would stand with it and pull the whip out sharply and wave it at it quite violently without touching it, giving it food or reassurance each time until it stopped reacting excessively. Leaving a horse so that it quivers and jumps when it sees a whip near it is completely unacceptable, to me.
You have no idea what will happen to you in the future, or where your horse might end up. It is not fair to throw whips out of your yard, and leave the horse scared of them. It is only fair to habituate it to them.

If I could cure, as I did, a horse of a lifelong fear of bridges, and whips, by hitting it once and riding it over a bridge, can anyone tell me the sense in taking even half an hour to persuade that horse in a "nicer" fashion to go over that bridge and remain scared of whips? 29 and a 1/2 more minutes of unhappiness for the horse, surely?

Andy if you think an Arab and a Quarter Horse give you the experience to tell all of us that we are wrong to ever use a whip, that's your prerogative, but I suspect you inadvertently caused more than just me to spit our cornflakes out with laughter.

I suspect if Andy rushed up to his horse yelling and brandishing a whip it would not bat an eyelid because it's not used to its handler randomly inflicting pain on it. Horses become whip-shy because they are often punished for something they haven't done or understood.

 

[team barney]

No, no whips or crops at our place.

Just carrot sticks and ropes????

 

[Flicker]

Only in an emergency to avert danger to life or potential injury. And only if I was in the position to evaluate whether it would achieve the results required, as opposed to making things worse.
I would never, ever administer the kind of wallop you describe in a disciplinary capacity.

 

[Spudlet]

I have to say, that if I was walking across a field and a horse tried to pick me up and shake me, I would indeed give it a good wallop whether it was looking for sandwiches or not! And then I'd go and find the owner and give them a thorough ear bending! People should be able to go for a walk without being picked up by a random horse, my goodness me!

 

[jenbleep]

Until I read this, I quite admired your stance, even though I considered it a bit narrow-minded, but WTF? If you want to allow any bad behavior from your horse towards you to go unpunished that is entirely up to you, but if you are going to take your horse near other people and it does stuff like picking them up you are a damn sight worse than fluffy mate, you are dangerous.

Agree with this?!?!?!??! Blimey some people come out with utter tosh. I'm sorry my horse has just picked you up by the shoulder but he was only looking for sandwiches?!

Jeez

 

[Tickles]

Only if horse was an immediate danger to itself, another animal or person AND if I believed that hitting it would make it move to safety. I.e. never for punishment only as a (very strong) command.

I'm smaller and weaker than a horse (and most ponies!) so need to be confident I have non-physical means to exerting influence.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

blimey...............mine get pasted with carefree abandon................

i dont care why they want to kick/bite barge....whether its aimed me, another horse, or an insect etc, its bloody dangerous and i wont stand for it whilst im in their space. they HAVE to learn to stop and think first because they are too big and strong not to.

without fail, all the spoil little swines i get in to sort out, are like that because people didnt tell them off, when they should have.

im too busy to faff and fanny around trying to analyze the little darlings wants and demands, they just learn manners and dont forget them.

dont get me wrong, im not cruel or stupid, if they are genuinely scared and eg swing away and shove me-fine, they were scared, but if they swing away for any other reason and shove me..............a *******ing they will get.

i went to a show with someone a few weeks ago and her horse was a menace, grabbing me, chewing me, shoving me, spinning all over the shop, pulling back, dragging forward,scraping/pawing, constantly in your face for food......................thank god mine have the manners to stand and wait politely for me to be ready for them,because i wont stand for that sort of impatient attention seeking either.

i hasten to add mine are not whip or people shy, love attention and are happy to see me, but they know who the boss is and they know not to push her.....................

 

[team barney]

If a horse is really out to get you, I think that you've probably had it, if you think a stick or whip or whatever has saved you, the horse probably wasn't that serious. Apart from the size, horses react about 10 times faster than people do and so it's all over before you know whats happened.

I don't think a whip has saved me, I was lucky enough to be able to get my self away very sharply. However if I had be trapped I would have used anything at hand to defend my self, regardless of the futility of it.

I have never belted a horse and would never hit a horse for anything less than mortal danger or in protection of my family.

I don't carry a whip when I ride, school or handle any of my horses. I have never had cause to doubt mine but certain horses are completely untrustworthy.

They are as I said previously very few horses like this. I know the difference between a horse bitting/kicking due to fear from past abuses and a horse that is a genuine danger. I have had dealings with only one such horse and would not wish it on anyone else and genuinely hope I never encounter another like it.

 

[monkeybum13]

I have seen more horses spoiled by not being hit when they needed it than by being hit when they did not deserve it. A horse hit when it does not deserve it forgives you. A horse uncorrected in a bad habit often gets worse until it hurts someone.

I agree with all your post but this bit especially. I know a 17.3 that is spoilt rotten, allowed to do what the hell he wants and has injured his owner several times putting her in hospital.
If I ever handle him (which I try to keep to a minimum) he behaves because I'm bossy with him and he's not allowed to step out of line. Would I ever use a whip on him if he was aggressive? Gosh yes, without hesitation.

 

[premiersporthorsesuk]

Quite a delicate subject in some people's eyes but I always say "a beating is given when a beating is due". I don't agree with horse cruelty or people smacking them for no reason really annoys me but I don't hesitate to let them know when they're in the wrong. This does not mean I do not care for them or love them any less. My outlook is to always make things black and white. When they're naughty they get what punishment is needed, whether it be a "wallop" or a sharp smack and a shout. When they're good they are praised with pats, kisses, cuddles, rubs and lots of "good boys/girls!" so they know what's right and what's wrong. I only think a "wallop" is a bad thing when the horse doesn't understand why he is getting it, or it was given for something that really didn't need it. They are big, powerful animals so need to know what is acceptable and what isn't.

 

[Amaranta]

I cannot remember the last time I hit one of my horses tbh, I agree that body language is key most of the time BUT and it is a big but, I have no qualms about giving a short sharp reminder should I have to.

Those posters who declare they would never hit a horse are obviously not used to dealing with horses other than their own, and as for the person who stated that horses don't hit each other, well she has never watched a herd and how they behave. Watch a lead mare with a bolshy youngster for instance, she will give cues and if they are not taken up it can become quite violent, this is how horses learn and anyone who says differently is not as experienced as they would like us to believe.

There is a lot of holier than though going on in this post, with certain posters showing their ignorance of horse psychology, yes we should listen to our horses but sometimes we have to make them listen too.

 

[Lady La La]

I have to say, that if I was walking across a field and a horse tried to pick me up and shake me, I would indeed give it a good wallop whether it was looking for sandwiches or not! And then I'd go and find the owner and give them a thorough ear bending! People should be able to go for a walk without being picked up by a random horse, my goodness me!

This. That horse has probably suffered more pain from random beatings bestowed on it by petrified walkers than that of a quick flick with a whip as a reprimand...

 

[bensababy]

I have and i would again, my 2 year old (who is now 18) grabbed my thumb and started shaking it like a rag doll.. what would you have done? Yep - he got a good whallop round the face - it was either that or lose my thumb and i know what i would prefer.

Is he head shy? No
Did he ever suffer from it? no
Did i? yes a nasty scar and 12 stitches later and a numb feeling in my thumb

In that kind of situation i choose myself.

And as for the comment previously about horses not hitting each other (hitting made me chuckle - can imagine a horse with boxing gloves on), sorry but the award for the most ridiculous comment goes to you .. how do you think they sort out the pecking orders? - and the answer is not in a boxing ring.

 

[talkinghorse]

… Rubbish…

Would you do the same with naughty children? Would you treat a dog this way? Why do it to a horse, when there are far more effective ways? Is is because they can't scream in pain? Or is it because you are a bully and know no better?

 

[Fellewell]

I think we muddy the waters when we draw comparisons between horse interaction and their behaviour towards us.
I have one here who did exactly as the Appy did but the yearling didn't survive. His owner was heartbroken.
That horse is a saint around people, on the ground and under saddle. I watched him in the field this morning, he flicked his ears back and a horse 15 feet away trotted off. I've put his behaviour to the test since he's been here but he's as good as gold. Go figure

 

[aimeetb]

The only circumstances in which I would hit a horse is if said horse was in serious attack mode (believe me it happens) and I had no other escape.

This! Mistakes, bad behaviour, misunderstanding etc etc I try to always keep calm and think of another way to explain and deal with it (not always easy as that) but when they completely overstep the mark like the above it is simply dangerous not to let them know it is unacceptable. x

 

[Baggybreeches]

What worries me here is how many people go from 0 - 60 in a milisecond. From shouting to hitting. Neither of these things make sense to horses. The first doesn't tell them what they ought to be doing (they just don't understand words) and the second doesn't tell them what they ought to have done.

I would shout at mine even less than I hit them, again because my big horse is very sensitive to shouting (he gets stressed if my neighbours kids cry in the garden!), I would usually use a sharp smack instead, as that will break the behaviour or interrupt the intended behaviour. But again not appropriate every time, ever been leading a really nervous youngster who spooks at something and stands on your foot? That is not an appropriate time for a smack (even if it might be instinctive), instead you must be calm and comforting. (And then go round the corner and scream and swear!)

 

[ngrace]

Would you do the same with naughty children? Would you treat a dog this way? Why do it to a horse, when there are far more effective ways? Is is because they can't scream in pain? Or is it because you are a bully and know no better?

Well I for one would hit a dog if it was being aggressive which has happened to me before and its not pretty. Never had a kid violently attack me, but to be honest if someone did I would probably try to pin them to the floor till they calm down but you cant do that with horses.
You obviously havent heard a horse 'scream' when being pushed around in the field, they can.
And play nicely, dont call people bullys.

ETA - I have dogs, horses and a little brother. Never needed to hit dogs or brother (lol) but had a horse try to take a chunk out of dad when he was just standing next to her and she got a smack and deserved it.
Oh and mum smacked me once for trying to run over the road, no mentally scarring so far, and I havent done it since.

 

[turkana]

I'm not a hitter & I never carry a whip but a few years ago I was mucking out a terratorial mare & she came at me, I was cornered so I wacked her across the chest with a shovel.
It's not something I've done before or since but that mare really meant it, so I have no regrets about defending myself.

 

[Firewell]

Wow I don't think I really hit my horse thinking about it. I'm not soft but I mainly use a whip as a tickle to back my leg up (if he drops behind the leg). I smack him on the neck with my hand if he tries to nibble but I more just push his face away.
Nope I really don't use my whip much! I'm quite impressed with that lol.
With my old horse he only got a hard smack if he stopped at a fence and we were on the right stride but he was a professional showjumper and knew better, he just tried his luck sometimes.

I'd smack a dog if it really needed it but they are predators like us and they react differently to horses.

 

[aimeetb]

Never. You don't see horses hitting one another, so why would it mean anything to them if we do it.

Are you serious??

Have you never seen a mare nip a youngster that is out of line?

xx

 

[SplashofSoy]

I would give a horse a wallop with a crop if the circumstances meant this was the only option, usually to prevent harm coming to myself, the horse or a third party. I have had to do this.

I would do the same to a dog but fortunately my dog has never put me in this situation. I once at a show where there was terrier racing two dogs locked teeth onto each other, it was an emergency situation and a guy grabbed the agressor dog and hit it once very hard on the head. It immediately let go. Not pleasant and far from the ideal way of dealing with things but the right thing to do at the time.

I think there is a huge difference between one hit/smack/wallop whatever you want to call it in a specific situation to someone who beats and abuses animals/children etc. The former can be necessary and very effective the latter can never be tolerated and is just wrong in all circumstances.

 

[Tnavas]

Would you do the same with naughty children? Would you treat a dog this way? Why do it to a horse, when there are far more effective ways? Is is because they can't scream in pain? Or is it because you are a bully and know no better?

Naughty children have not been disciplined sensibly since the mid 70's hence why we now have so many violent, disruptive, rude, dishonest bullies of kids and adults.

A smack never hurt anyone - it was a very sharp reminder that you had been told to either do or not do something. I really feel so sorry for teachers nowadays when they have to deal with the horrible offspring of people who say smacking your child is bullying - instead these children bully us by their obnoxious behavior.

You will NEVER stop the people who go overboard with laws against smacking. You just take away a parents freedom of choice as to how they wish to raise their children.

And yes I would hit a dog - I hit mine for growling at my nephew. He didn't ever do it again. I treat my animals in the same way they treat each other. I once had a very dominant spaniel bitch that challenged me one day, I pinned her down on the floor by her muzzle until she gave in - it took a while but from then on she did as I asked when asked. It is just the same way as an alpha dog would have treated her. I can growl at Serenity and she will generally behave herself but there have been times when she has carried on being a pain - usually by squashing me - then she gets a smack and knows I mean it. Putting her on the truck often involves a smack with the whip on the bum when she decides to plant herself.

I've worked with hundreds of horse - all have different disciplining requirements. Personality, the way they have been handled before you get them. The food they are on - the invironment they are in. All these things affect how a horse behaves.

 

[irishcob]

Not remotely unlucky thank you, my horse is unbelievable for his size and age and when out competing nit much can beat him, ALL horses have the capacity to bite/kick/buck/rear/spook for no given reason and when the do they should be reprimanded as such. pehaps you just don't do anything with your which is why they don't react, after 23 years with horses and having some huge sucsesses and some difficult time i shall stick to what i know.

I've been trying to refrain from taking part in this debate, as with such an emotive subject it can get quite heated. I agree that I would hit a horse if it was endangering the lives of others, but apart from that, no, I think there is always a better way.

However it is astonishing to me that people think you cannot be successful or competitive without hitting your horses along the way. Just to let you know that IHK has infact been a Champion Showjumper and Champion Lady Race Jockey in her career. She has also helped many hundreds of confused or angry horses who nap/bite/buck/rear etc, due to mishandling (whether deliberate or through ignorance) and pain inflicted upon them.

One of her most impressive achievements for me was to travel to Namibia, and catch 2 wild stallions on the desert, and managing to handle and ride them within 7 days. These horses are tough animals, who will fight for survival, and had she tried to use a whip on either of them to demand respect, I doubt she'd be alive today.

Anyway, I'm going off track. So no, you don't have to hit a horse ever to be successful.

 

[SassieSoz]

Yes I would and yes I have. My now 10 year old ID was terrible between 3 and 4, pushing every available boundary, biting me at every opportunity and lobbing cow-kicks whenever possible. One occasion of bringing him across the field he went to bite me for the 'nth time and by a compete fluke I managed to get first bite on his nostril. Don't know who was more surprised - needless to say it stopped him trying it for quite a few weeks. There are times when instant 'horse-like" retaliation/telling off is required - as youngsters their peers dole it out when boundaries are overstepped. I don't however condone needless abuse as it doesn't get either of you anywhere. My once bolshy ID is now lovely to handle but, boy, it was hard getting the boundaries established!!

 

[amandap]

Because when it suits they would be the first to abuse your trust - you see this everyday when a novice rider gets their first horse, or the cunning riding school pony susses out the rider is a little nervous.

Don't EVER underestimate the power and reactions of a horse or pony.

I've just picked this post out at random to illustarte a point.

Erm, so the horse is wrong for 'being cunning' or as I look at it learning that this person doesn't give clear, fair, guidance that makes sense to the horse. If a person is a novice then surely they don't know how to be with horses yet? Or are horses able to read human minds now?

I'm sorry but threads like this are so predictable... if 'it' (the horse) doesn't do what you want or is afraid of something and doesn't want to go forward or wants to run etc. etc. just belt it one and it will know what you want or 'do as it's told'! Yikes. Erm, perhaps the pain from the whip or whatever made it stop and wonder where to run next just long enough for you to get 'it' to do what you want that time... result. Or is it?
What happens next time and the next and the next... some humans seem to have the same problems over and over again with a string of horses. I suppose this is because the horses are all 'stupid'?

I may not be an eventer, show jumper, dressage diva or even good rider so just ignore my thinking cos I don't do much. I try to ask myself why my horse is behaving in a way that I think is potentially dangerous or if he/she is afraid or doesn't want to go somewhere. Do I need to look at diet (mineral imbalance for eg.) management (not enough turnout/too much grass, no mates/ trouble at yard etc.) MY TRAINING (the biggie for me) etc. etc.

I've just been skimming through Kelly Mark's book, 'Perfect Partners' and one thing she says to ask is 'how can I get my horse to WANT to do this?'
I don't know about some posters but I wouldn't want to do stuff for someone who just confused me with their moods, erratic training/rules or who regularly hits me.
I've worked very hard on myself to stay calm and not take behaviours personally so I can see more clearly what is going wrong rather than blame my horses, I'm very far from perfect and certainly don't have the best trained horses in the universe but they seem happy and so am I.

I'm sure a horse in a solid, trusting and fair relationship will not hold the odd hit against the owner but that's the nature of horses, they are very forgiving and just want to get on with life.

 

[SplashofSoy]

Oh and mum smacked me once for trying to run over the road, no mentally scarring so far, and I havent done it since.

Similar thing happened to me, after that a look from my mum was enough, even at the age of 29 that look can still stop me in my tracks!