When WOULD you hit a horse? Or would you?

[LaurenBay]

I'd never hit, whip, kick, punch a horse as 'punishment' or to defend myself. Nor would I do it for any other reason (just incase you're left wondering )! There are better ways to manage any situation that may arise between a horse and a human being. 99% of the time confidence, body language, your voice and quick thinking can resolve a tricky situation. I try to avoid the other 1% occurring

Could I ask what you wouldv'e done in my situation then? I am a confident handler, I couldn't use too much body language as I was pinned against a tree and was struggling to breathe, my voice was not doing anything. She was not listening to me, I asked her to move away from me and she didn't do it. She knows what back means, she has never ever done anything like this before and always has been a pleasure to handle. so it wasn't due to lack of understanding either. She just choose this day not to listen to me.

There was knowone else around and I was in a lot of pain, she was still barging into me and it got to the point were I could here my ribs cracking. So I hit her, it worked!! that was 2 years ago now and she has never tried that again. She's not headshy because of it and had I not done it I would've probably ended up with broken ribs and perhaps a punctured lung.

I'm not trying to start an arguement but I am interested to know how you would've handled it ?

 

[Lady La La]

yes i have- the most noted time when I looked down the yard and saw an empty wheelchair, and then heard screaming coming from a known nasty stallions box..... he had dragged her over the door and was proceeding to trample her- took me several wallops to even get him to acknowledge i was there, let alone stop pawing at the disabled lady on the floor.

So to all those who "never hit a horse" how exactly would you have resolved that situation? let him carry on until he got bored, and she was dead?

Jesus Lex. That sounds ******* awful.

 

[Kadastorm]

Yes i will hit/kick a horse if it warrents it.
Had a youngster attack someone when trying to catch another pony the other day, it double barreled him twice. It got a good whack and kick and it hasnt come at anyone since - lesson learnt? probably.
We also have a cob x who is a real sweetheart to ride but a bugger on the ground and will lunge at people to bite them, he gets a swift whack and then he's fine.
If we let the horses get away with things then it puts our clients and ourselves at risk. We dont beat our horses and we dont use those methods unless we have to.
Same goes for loading, riding on the road, riding to a fence - whips will be used when needed and then alot of praise when the horse does what its asked.
They are big animals, im not going to stand and say 'naughty naughty' im going to make it clear im not happy-just like they do to other horses.

 

[only_me]

Yep, I will hit a horse if I needed to.
Timing is everything with a whip; it can act as a reminder or as a go button. I don't get the attitude of those who never have a whip - to carry or to use - a whip when riding is a safety item - just because you carry it dosen't mean you have to use it!

It is incredibly naive to think that you will never hit a horse - and shows that the person who thinks this is not taking responsibility for the half tonne of animal with a mind of its own...!

 

[SplashofSoy]

I find it interesting that some say they never carry a stick when even the BHS as part of their riding and road safety course and exam insist you carry a whip when on the road just in case. This is not for indicating to traffic etc as this is not correct for hand signals but even they recognise that there may be cases when riding a whip may need to be used and if it gets to the point where you do have to use it in a dangerous situation a wallop rather than a tap is probably going to be required.

 

[Kadastorm]

I find it interesting that some say they never carry a stick when even the BHS as part of their riding and road safety course and exam insist you carry a whip when on the road just in case. This is not for indicating to traffic etc as this is not correct for hand signals but even they recognise that there may be cases when riding a whip may need to be used and if it gets to the point where you do have to use it in a dangerous situation a wallop rather than a tap is probably going to be required.

Exactly.

in all your BHS exams, you should carry a whip.
it is definately a safety item,
i wouldnt go without.

 

[fibelle]

I so wish there was a quote button on the mobile version of HHO - so many quotable posts, good & bad!!

The person who said horses don't hit each other made me laugh - I'll tell that to the big hunter next time one of his fieldmates steps out of line!

I don't carry a whip generally as I don't feel my boyneeds it

 

[Spudlet]

I generally have a short crop stuck down in my long boot out hacking, with just the top inch sticking out. If I need it, it's there, if not it's out of the way. I've never needed it yet... but it's been there just in case. The only exception is if an owner specifically asks me not to carry one, in which case I would respect their wishes.

 

[fibelle]

I so wish there was a quote button on the mobile version of HHO - so many quotable posts, good & bad!!

The person who said horses don't hit each other made me laugh - I'll tell that to the big hunter next time one of his fieldmates steps out of line!

I don't carry a whip generally as I don't feel my boy needs it but I wouldn't hesitate to give him a good hard slap with my hand if it was warranted to remind him of his manners.

There have been occasions in the past where i've swung a headcollar or whatever if I've been under threat - anyone who says they wouldn't do that deserves the double barrels that were coming their way if you ask me!! ;-)

 

[Wagtail]

I think there is a vast difference between someone who is always slapping their horse and whacking it when riding etc. and someone who hits a horse in self defence. People who are saying that horses won't attack unless there is something seriously wrong, just don't know what they are talking about. It is a sad fact that there ARE a small minority of horses that are plain mean and vicious. Now maybe they hve been made that way by bad handling or experience, but it is not always the case.

I run a livery yard and will not have any 'nasty' horses on it. I once had to ask a person to leave because their horse was a total psycho with other horses (though lovely with people). I have only come across one truly nasty horse (with humans) in over 30 years of keeping horses, and that was the mare I mentioned earlier in the thread. This is probably because I choose horses on temperament, and ability/looks etc come second. I don't have to hit any horses, though do sometimes carry a schooling whip (but never use it - just wiggle it) as it works wonders making my horse work more forward. I can't stand seeing people beat their horses for refusing jumps etc. They are not machines!

 

[talkinghorse]

Interesting the way this thread has gone. There are two sorts of people it seems, those who have had serious problem horses to deal with and have found a way to do it that doesn't involve violence, and those who think violence is the only way.

Wonder whom the horses would choose?

 

[Kelly Marks]

Hi
What I'm finding most surprising on here is the amount of horses attacking and biting people. Do other people consider this normal? When I worked in Dehli for the Brooke Hospital I came across truly vicious horses and I would say a high percentage worldwide (always exceptions) would be 'trained' to be vicious in the same way.

Training Your Horse to be Vicious: Method One: The MOST effective way would be to hand rear or over handle and spoil as a foal and then just as they get a bit older give them a real good beating. They've lost their flight instinct and with the beating they become attack animals.

Method Two: Randomly feed treats from your pockets and then when they push or barge you next time smack them on the nose. Sometimes smack, sometimes give treats, sometimes smack - this is a good way to get a really cunning biter who learns to snatch at you then run off with a piece of you still in his mouth.

Anyone know how you teach a horse to kick you? Of course you do!

 

[ngrace]

Interesting the way this thread has gone. There are two sorts of people it seems, those who have had serious problem horses to deal with and have found a way to do it that doesn't involve violence, and those who think violence is the only way.

Wonder whom the horses would choose?

Poorly analysed.
And actually they arent saying that violence is the only way.

 

[FairyLights]

If it stood on my foot and wouldnt get off.

 

[horseless jorge!]

There's been many times I've had to give a horse a proper smack. Different horses, different situations means lots of smacks sometimes.
Say, when Shogun comes in on his own to be tacked up. There's not an issue until he sees another horse being brought in, and then he turns into a huge monster. He must grow about three feet, he tries to spin and kick out. He is always very naughty, and that's when he needs a smack. A hard one. After I've asserted myself to 'hey, I AM actually still here!!' then he's fine.

 

[Lady La La]

Interesting the way this thread has gone. There are two sorts of people it seems, those who have had serious problem horses to deal with and have found a way to do it that doesn't involve violence, and those who think violence is the only way.

Wonder whom the horses would choose?

Well now lets see...

If horses minds work by this reckoning I think the choice would be as follows:

"I chose not to reveive a smack from my rider, and thus I chose to throw myself into the middle of the road and underneath that on coming lorry. Yes I choose death."

or

"I choose to reveive a smack from my rider, so that I quickly swing my arse back into the position it should be in and thus my backend remains in tact and the driver of that lorry wont have nightmares for years to come. Yes, I choose to live, and carry on eating grass."

As I'm sure we all know, horses minds don't work thusly... however, if they did.. I too wonder which they would choose

 

[Molly'sMama]

I think there is a vast difference between someone who is always slapping their horse and whacking it when riding etc. and someone who hits a horse in self defence. People who are saying that horses won't attack unless there is something seriously wrong, just don't know what they are talking about. It is a sad fact that there ARE a small minority of horses that are plain mean and vicious. Now maybe they hve been made that way by bad handling or experience, but it is not always the case.

I run a livery yard and will not have any 'nasty' horses on it. I once had to ask a person to leave because their horse was a total psycho with other horses (though lovely with people). I have only come across one truly nasty horse (with humans) in over 30 years of keeping horses, and that was the mare I mentioned earlier in the thread. This is probably because I choose horses on temperament and ability/looks etc come second. I don't have to hit any horses, though do sometimes carry a schooling whip (but never use it - just wiggle it) as it works wonders making my horse work more forward. I can't stand seeing people beat their horses for refusing jumps etc. They are not machines!

And I never hit my horse when riding, she's been beaten in the past and doesnt need it. BUT there is a nasty horse at our yard and when going to fetch my horse in from the field once, she did try to attack me and I did react in utter self defence. When I got back , I said to my mother I didnt think about it , or myself , but yelled NO and smacked her with her headcollar/rope pretty hard. I dont like hitting horses but I have no doubt she would have tried to doublebarrel me or something. Said maniac horse also bites a lot in stable, my friend at yard , was coming out from her stable & as she was undoing the bolt , the horse bit her so the skin broke .She gave the horse a whack on head but...she has a massive bruise and cut, and no worse than a alpha horse in the wild would have done.

I hate it when people smack their horses when riding , 'specially after a course of jumps. Once saw a girl ( about 15) make her little 14hh going round a 2'9 course. Horse was trying but not getting any room to stretch and girl got eliminated , after a few refusals but she stormed out and hit it. After the round . That made me see red.

 

[Kelly Marks]

I find it surprising as well so many horses owned by H & H forum members (as well as biting and attacking) appear to want to throw themselves in front of lorries. I would have thought that would be fairly unusual.

Obviously these horses would have been got used to traffic before being ridden out on the roads and, of course, they would be schooled to the basic aids. Isn't it easier and safer to do a shoulder in towards the traffic rather than hit them which would raise their adrenalin and make the situation more dangerous?

 

[galaxy]

Very rarely, but I don't hesitate when it's appropriate. Usually a stern "ah ah" and a tap with the back with my hand is enough for some of the grumpy ones that threaten to bite or lift a leg etc. I wouldn't call that a hit, I'd call that a reminder.

There are some horses that I would never hit, nor ever have the need to. I have never hit my new girl. She is young and has never given me any need to. I would never hit a horse for not understanding or being afraid. Only if they were being dangerous and someone/me was going to get hurt.

The last horse I truely hit was a clients 12hh pony. He only a companion really, but they do lunge him occasionally. He's an old boy with horrendous manners. Anyway, they asked me to lunge him. I took him out to the school and quietly sent him away from me, he stood up on his hind legs and charged AT me. Little toad! I had a stick in my hand and hit him over the chest with it. I had no choice, he would have come down on my head. After that though he lunged perfectly. He just didn't want to do it and was trying it on. He has obviously gotten away with it in the past.

I do suspect those who have replied with "never" are the rope wagglers and stick wavers of this world, that because those that be say it's not violent to wave a stick around the head, or sock it in the jaw with a clip of a lead rope think that their way is a better way. I'd have to disagree.

 

[SplashofSoy]

I find it surprising as well so many horses owned by H & H forum members (as well as biting and attacking) appear to want to throw themselves in front of lorries. I would have thought that would be fairly unusual.

The OP question was would you do it, many give examples of things that do not involve thier own horses. My horse is brilliant in traffic but would always carry a stick and am fully prepared to use it should the need arise.

 

[Queenbee]

yes i have- the most noted time when I looked down the yard and saw an empty wheelchair, and then heard screaming coming from a known nasty stallions box..... he had dragged her over the door and was proceeding to trample her- took me several wallops to even get him to acknowledge i was there, let alone stop pawing at the disabled lady on the floor.

So to all those who "never hit a horse" how exactly would you have resolved that situation? let him carry on until he got bored, and she was dead?

Your behaviour was completely out of line, you should have waved your finger left to right in his face and asked him nicely if he would mind putting the lady back down, that would have been more effective

 

[Molly'sMama]

Your behaviour was completely out of line, you should have waved your finger left to right in his face and asked him nicely if he would mind putting the lady back down, that would have been more effective

Yes yes, I agree, maybe you should have also given him a treat after for putting the lady down nicely & told her not to go so close to him

 

[amandap]

Very rarely, but I don't hesitate when it's appropriate. Usually a stern "ah ah" and a tap with the back with my hand is enough for some of the grumpy ones that threaten to bite or lift a leg etc. I wouldn't call that a hit, I'd call that a reminder.

But, why are they 'grumpy?'
Horses and even humans generally (ime) are only grumpy when they're fed up, sore, feeling ill or generally unhappy... aka something is wrong! Horses of course can learn that humans might suddenly hit them or do something that hurts them or put them two feet away from their arch enemy in the field and learn to watch out behind, defend before attacked from humans or the horse. Once a horse sees how effective kicking out is at keeping humans away I believe it can quickly become a sort of default behaviour.... those horses that you daren't walk behind...

 

[Spudlet]

I find it surprising as well so many horses owned by H & H forum members (as well as biting and attacking) appear to want to throw themselves in front of lorries. I would have thought that would be fairly unusual.

Obviously these horses would have been got used to traffic before being ridden out on the roads and, of course, they would be schooled to the basic aids. Isn't it easier and safer to do a shoulder in towards the traffic rather than hit them which would raise their adrenalin and make the situation more dangerous?

I think people are probably giving hypothetical situations as examples of when they might consider it necessary / acceptable to hit a horse.

 

[lexiedhb]

Jesus Lex. That sounds ******* awful.

yeah wasnt the best day I had had- literally leathered it 3 times ( with ashort leather whip- that was kept outside its stable for use whne leading th horrible little *ucker)before I could even take its focus of her. She was bruised so badly, especially her legs, as she could not get them out of his way- lucky she did not break anything.

Your behaviour was completely out of line, you should have waved your finger left to right in his face and asked him nicely if he would mind putting the lady back down, that would have been more effective

Right- shall remember this for next time

I think the most shocking thing is that there were PLENTY of people willing to breed from it.....

 

[Queenbee]

Interesting the way this thread has gone. There are two sorts of people it seems, those who have had serious problem horses to deal with and have found a way to do it that doesn't involve violence, and those who think violence is the only way.

Wonder whom the horses would choose?

Utter BS! I have had a string of serious problem horses, some aggressive and some afraid of their own shadow, some, boundaries, discipline and understanding come in many different forms, what works for some horses wont work for others, some problem horses are agressive and dangerous because they have been spoilt and had scared owners, they do need to lose a fight (I don't specifically mean take a hit, I mean being stongly reprimanded or losing in a battle of wills) and look to their handler/rider as their leader and give the decision making over to them, other horses have been turned into problem horses because of overly harsh treatment and as such need a different approach of building trust and confidence, some have been beaten and never given boundaries and are dangerous nervous wrecks, see my post of the bargy mare who I kneed in the chest, once she understood that she wasn't supposed to charge out the stable after/over me or anyone and that she was to stay in the stable, you could almost see the tension drain out of her and everything in her relax. My Friesian x TB mare was never beaten, never agressive, just flighty and a diva, I would kill anyone who hit her because I know that whatever the situation it would turn her into a wreck and probably trigger her flight instinct, for other horses it is enough of a tool to snap them out of a dangerous situation before they hurt themselves, you or someone else. It is not about problem V's non problem! Jesus christ! It is about learning to read and understand the INDIVIDUAL horse and the INDIVIDUAL situation and reacting ACCORDINGLY and APPROPRIATELY!

 

[amandap]

Yes yes, I agree, maybe you should have also given him a treat after for putting the lady down nicely & told her not to go so close to him

Lol but seriously, why was the person in the wheelchair in a position to be grabbed over the door, what were they doing? Is the stallion known for this sort of behaviour?
My Step daughter is in a wheelchair and she has very strict instructions to keep well away from strange horses and unattended horses she doesn't know or have a rapport with.

Of course if a human has somehow managed to get themselves attacked by a horse whatever needs to be done has to be done to save them. How about trying to PREVENT these occurrences though?

 

[lexiedhb]

SHE WAS THE YARD MANAGER

Injured in a riding accident, and still riding sidesaddle with assistance

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, someone had not shut said gobshites top door

 

[Lady La La]

I think people are probably giving hypothetical situations as examples of when they might consider it necessary / acceptable to hit a horse.

I make you right

 

[Queenbee]

I think the most shocking thing is that there were PLENTY of people willing to breed from it.....

Herein lies the basis for another thread!! Breed from a totally unsuitable horse and produce a number of additional gits!