When you're done with horses but horse is unsellable?

[Barton Bounty]

No I'm not. This is why. I vetted this 'light work only" horse's new home to within an inch of her life. I even interviewed one of her liveries. It took her four months to turn a bonny horse into this :

View attachment 100466

I bought him back and got him well again and he went to someone who did absolutely adore him. She even paid to export him to the US when she went home. But it didn't stop her shoeing him when I told her it would make him lame, it didn't stop her having him operated on for colic when that isn't an operation I would have allowed and it didn't stop me knowing that his last 14 days on earth were full of pain and suffering.

I had another which eventually came to me, and ended with me. Given by his owner on permanent loan to a "wonderful" person who promised a home for life for light hacking. She sold him as a show jumper weeks later.

We had another on the forum only this week. The story this time has ended well, so far, but the horse was sold for a tiny amount as a companion due to health issues.

It happens far too often. The only 100%way to guarantee a horse's future is for it to be dead, sadly.




Maybe you understand now how I know its not a lazy cop-out.
.

Oh my goodness! That is terrible, so sorry @ycbm . My boy when I took him back wasnt as bad as that, just on the lean side. That is a heartbreaking picture

 

[ycbm]

Please DJ, do what will make you feel as if you've done the right thing for your horse and yourself. If that is to find another home for her, try and make it one where you can keep a close eye for a long time, or where you can forget her completely.
.

 

[millitiger]

I would PTS.

Unless you already have a friend, you trust, who wants her.

I wouldn't trust a stranger to loan a horse with issues which means it can't even trot without lameness.
There are too many unscrupulous people out there, who find a value in anything.

I certainly wouldn't breed from her, unless she has good breeding, exceptional conformation and a good performance record .

There are so many worse things for a horse than being PTS in a home they feel happy and safe.

 

[Daniel_Jack]

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to reply.

Just to respond to some of the suggestions -

Broodmare - not an option. She has awful feet and conformation that are the underlying cause of her lameness.

Companion home - this is my dream and if I truly thought it a possibility I'd absolutely go down this route but am realistic that a horse like mine that has sweet itch and weight issues (extremely good doer) are not always so in demand due to the level of effort required to maintain them.

Loaning - not something I'd consider. The risk of them being dumped back on your doorstep is too high and not one I'm willing to take.

For now I won't be making any decisions but livery prices are going up by £60 a month in the spring and that may be the catalyst.

I will however make some enquiries with friends about possible companion homes but don't think I'd pass her to someone that wasn't at least a friend of a friend.

 

[rabatsa]

You obviously felt the horse needed retirement, otherwise you would not have chosen retirement livery.

The next step is NOT to pass the horse on but to give a peaceful end in a place that it knows.

Selling/giving the mare away is not going to be the kindest thing to do in this economic climate as a lot of those who can afford a "pet" now may not be able to do so in 6 months time.

Breeding is an expensive business, unless it is a bin end breeder who cuts corners. Those who can afford to breed in this climate should be choosing the best mares that they can, not ones that have had to retire early. It is also a long term business as a foal would not be sellable for another two years and as the horse market looks to be heading downwards the costs stand a good chance of not being recouperated.

From your post I feel that you know which decission you should really make and it is between coughing up for livery or pts.

Just seen your update so much of this is not needed.

 

[scats]

I put one to sleep who was 13 but frankly a liability. Retirement herd was great in summer but come autumn he dropped a tonne of weight and reverted to cribbing at the fence all day and night. Lameness issues were still apparent and he had numerous other issues that made him very difficult to manage. I did bring him home initially but he caused a few issues with my mare at the time and she also had health problems that needed careful management. I decided that as he’d had a nice summer retirement, I’d call it a day with him. Many probably didn’t agree with my decision (a few on here were vocal about it) but I have no regrets. He was a horse full of issues who had been passed from pillar to post and I felt it was my responsibility to ensure he didn’t face an uncertain future.

 

[j1ffy]

Another one here who had a horse permanently loaned as a companion that ended up being flogged by teenagers in a dealer's yard...he was lucky as a lovely lady found him and traced me (through this forum) but he was in a bad way when she got him.

I also say PTS - your horse will know no different, other than having a bucketful of apples and carrots. You've provided her with a lovely retirement for a couple of years and it's better to say goodbye now than seeing her deteriorate. Even worse to put her somewhere cheaper that may not provide the expected care (this happened to a friend's horse and it was traumatic).

A friend recently did just that with her mare, who she retired four years ago due to SI issues and other problems (so wouldn't have been suitable as a surrogate broodmare, which is an option for some) but increasing livery costs were hard to swallow. She was very careful who she told but once she had made the decision she felt a weight had been lifted from her shoulders.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[w1bbler]

If its permission to PTS you're looking then you have it. There are far worse fates for a horse than a quick end.
There are some stories of older or unrideable horses finding good new homes. There are far more of them being passed from home to home & ending up neglected / broken.
If you can't/ don't want to keep the horse in retirement then don't.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Thanks everyone who has taken the time to reply.

Just to respond to some of the suggestions -

Broodmare - not an option. She has awful feet and conformation that are the underlying cause of her lameness.

Companion home - this is my dream and if I truly thought it a possibility I'd absolutely go down this route but am realistic that a horse like mine that has sweet itch and weight issues (extremely good doer) are not always so in demand due to the level of effort required to maintain them.

Loaning - not something I'd consider. The risk of them being dumped back on your doorstep is too high and not one I'm willing to take.

For now I won't be making any decisions but livery prices are going up by £60 a month in the spring and that may be the catalyst.

I will however make some enquiries with friends about possible companion homes but don't think I'd pass her to someone that wasn't at least a friend of a friend.

I think unless someone you know wants her as a companion and you can keep an eye on her I would pts, Sorry its a rubbish situation to be in.

 

[Goldenstar]

You are absolutely discharging your responsibility as a good owner if in the circumstances you describe you PTS.

 

[babymare]

Having PTS a half blind beautiful but with issues 14 yr mare without looking at alternatives I can honestly say it is not a lazy cop out! Hardest decision I have made! Oh I had people willing to have her but knew they would instantly have put her in foal! PTs is not an easy decision but a decision that ensures the horse is not passed around

 

[Birker2020]

Currently a hypothetical question but slowly morphing into a real concern.

I have a 12 year old retired e mare. Owned her for about 4 1/2 years and while she's lovely and calm and steady she was never really what I wanted so we didn't really click.

She developed issues 2 years ago that led to me retiring her 12 months ago. She could probably do very light hacking and schooling in walk but I have neither the time or inclination to do this due to a young family.

She's on retirement livery costing me about £300 a month and I visit her twice a month.

Before she went lame I planned to sell her but she's pretty much worthless now and I worry about her ending up in the wrong hands as she's so stoic with regards to her injury.

If I'm 100% honest I don't want to own a horse anymore. However I feel obligated to keep her.

She's field sound and will probably stay that way for many years as the injury is only aggravated by exercise and the thought of it makes me miserable.

With the costs of living these days I could really do without the additional costs and I get no joy out of her but I just don't think she'd sell and pts seems selfish and extreme when she is living a lovely life!.

Not sure there is an alternative solution to this but thought others may have had similar experience and can give some advice!

I'm faced with the same problem after being missold a horse last year who has multiple issues and will never stay sound/comfortable despite thousands of pounds worth of vet intervention. He's only 11 and I feel he would love being out in a herd environment. More importantly he's not needle shy so I'm trying to get him in at the blood bank next year and he can live pain free off medication (he only hurts when he's ridden).

Its been a terribly hard decision for me as the alternative is PTS, I wouldn't comtemplate selling him as he'd end up reinjured sooner rather than later (its clear he can't cope with work as its been tried three times now) and the thought he might get passed from pillar to post would be too horrific to contemplate. So the blood bank is the best thing IMHO. Its either that or PTS if I can't get him in.

 

[Daniel_Jack]

Thank you.

It's all a bit rubbish and its so frustrating to be in this situation.

This wee mare does not deserve this. She is such a lovely girl despite having a poor start in life with about 6 homes (some good some not) plus a riding school stint in her life.

She's been with me longer than any of her other owners and it's just a shame that things have turned out the way they have.

 

[Dru]

Gosh, I could have written this only my horse isn't quite at retirement stage yet. I think the worst thing is to sell them on when the risk of mistreatment is so high. Of all the options I've identified for my own situation, selling is the least likely. I could probably sell mine quite easily if I didn't disclose her persistent problem with ulcers but she'd end up in pain and unhappy unless she found another mug willing to throw tens of thousands at her.

I think the poster who said about seeking permission for PTS is spot on, I want someone to tell me that I'd not be a terrible human for killing my horse if it comes to it. I'm not there yet but it's becoming more and more likely as I can not spend thousands treating her again.

 

[Birker2020]

I think the poster who said about seeking permission for PTS is spot on, I want someone to tell me that I'd not be a terrible human for killing my horse if it comes to it. I'm not there yet but it's becoming more and more likely as I can not spend thousands treating her again.

You have to make the ultimate decision, at the end of the day no one knows a horse like its owner/vet and you don't have to seek affirmation from others that having a horse pts is the right thing to do, if the vet felt it wasn't they would say. I've asked my vet in my horses case "would you support me if my decision was to pts" and he gave a wholehearted yes, at the same time he also supported my decision to send to the blood bank saying the horse wouldn't need to be on pain medication.

Its very hard when you are on a forum trying to describe an animal you see day in day out, people can form well meaning opinions but not based on what is front of their eyes, if you understand. Its a very small snapshot. You have to do the right thing, what suits your horse and yourself and not be swayed by others opinions which is very hard at times.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

Again, true but to me a bit of a lazy cop out to not even entertain other options for a horse with some things to offer in the right home.

OP is exploring options hence her post, all everyone else is saying is if she does find herself in the situation that there’s no other sensible option, no one would blame her if she decides to pts.

 

[Birker2020]

Please don't do this. I am not a pet horse owner, my horses are there to work. I have rarely sold horses on (other than when I was running a stud farm, 25+ years ago). I have always tried to give my horses at least a couple of years retired in the field, and euthanise before they become uncomfortable and miserable.

The thing is the vast majority of people are on livery yards and don't have the benefit of being able to retire horses and buy another ride when their livery equates to several hundred pounds every month. So whilst this suggestion might work for you (and I don't begrudge you this) it wouldn't work for a lot of people.

 

[Carlosmum]

I am another who would PTS. In fact I did just that with my boy. He was a laminitis sufferer, with a bit of hard work... exercise and limited grazing we could have kept him sound, but for various other reasons I no longer wanted to ride him. Turning out to retirement was not an option, so we said goodbye, I feel only relief.

 

[SO1]

PTS your is not a lazy cop out. It is probably the hardest and most difficult decision most horse owners have to make. I think it is a bit insensitive.

The horse has been retired for several years. To bring it back into work even as a light hack in order to send it to loan home may not be easy for OP from a retirment yard. If OP wants to loan out as a walk hack or companion she needs to make sure the horse is up to the job. A lot of companion horses have to be ok being left on their own whilst the other horse is ridden and the horse has not been hacked for years. I don't think it is as easy as find someone to loan it. Yes people want walk hacks and companions but how many would want the risk of taking on a horse as a walk hack that hadn't been hacked for years or a companion horse that may not be able to be left on its own.

I think there will be more people with retired horses in this situation with the rise in energy costs and mortgage rates and livery, people may no longer have any money to spare and unable to sell in horrible situation. Not everyone can go out and get a better paid job or downsize their housing to increase their disposable income.

The only option I can think of is trying to find a cheap grass livery near to home but then you still have worming, feet trims, vaccinations and dental work which probably would push up to almost the same price if you include fuel to get to the yard each day.

Again, true but to me a bit of a lazy cop out to not even entertain other options for a horse with some things to offer in the right home.

 

[maya2008]

PTS (especially by a competent guy with a gun) is very much here one minute, gone the next. No suffering, no worries, a bucket of feed and a scratch on the head and then gone. Far better than an uncertain future. If you loved the horse and were desperate to keep it alive, then I would say ask around and find a space in a field locally - could cost as little as £50 a month plus feed if you do the chores. But if this isn’t your lifelong best friend, pts is kind and dignified and absolutely ok to do.

 

[ponynutz]

You obviously felt the horse needed retirement, otherwise you would not have chosen retirement livery.

The next step is NOT to pass the horse on but to give a peaceful end in a place that it knows.

Selling/giving the mare away is not going to be the kindest thing to do in this economic climate as a lot of those who can afford a "pet" now may not be able to do so in 6 months time.

Just a little bit worried your post makes it seem like the only option is to PTS. Most of us agree it's OP's decision whether we have differences in opinion or not and there's no judgement coming from
us. Sure you didn't mean it and feel free to ignore this if you feel I'm being pedantic but reading this I felt like exploring other options first before PTS would make me a bad owner. I didn't feel that with anyone else's post.

 

[Birker2020]

PTS your is not a lazy cop out. It is probably the hardest and most difficult decision most horse owners have to make. .

I agree, its very hard to come to this decision especially if the horse is relatively young still.

 

[Dexter]

Just a little bit worried your post makes it seem like the only option is to PTS. Most of us agree it's OP's decision whether we have differences in opinion or not and there's no judgement coming from
us. Sure you didn't mean it and feel free to ignore this if you feel I'm being pedantic but reading this I felt like exploring other options first before PTS would make me a bad owner. I didn't feel that with anyone else's post.

I think they would make you a bad owner, albeit with good intentions. I appreciate you are young and havent seen the things a lot of us have but PTS is always the right option in these cases. Passing on a lame horse is condemning it to an uncertain future. It is not life at all costs and I wish people could understand that. A short life well lived is ALWAYS better than a long one that ends badly.

 

[SO1]

It may well be sadly if she cannot afford to keep the horse.

If you are going to pass on a horse they need to fit for the job they are going to do be that a walk hack or a companion. In this situation where the horse is on a retirement livery and probably living in a herd it is going to be difficult to test if the horse is now going to be ok to do either.

If the horses leaves the retirement yard and is not suitable for the loaner then it will have to be rehomed or PTS from the loaners place as OP cannot take it back.

My opinion is if you loan out your horse you have to be in situation to take it back should it not work out, or PTS or rehome from loaner place which may be a difficult situation for the loaner.

Yes it would be wonderful if the horse could find a permanent loan home and they do exist but one of the appeals for people loaning is that they can return the horse if it doesn't work out.

If you are going to loan and cannot take the horse back you need a contract with the loaner that says if they cannot continue the loan that the horse will have to be rehomed or PTS from their yard.

With the blood bank you sign over the horse to them and when it is no longer of use to them they PTS. With embryo transfer I am not sure how that works but I presume that is a loan and they will expect you to take horse back when they no longer need it. I am also not sure if they take maiden mares for that.

Just a little bit worried your post makes it seem like the only option is to PTS. Most of us agree it's OP's decision whether we have differences in opinion or not and there's no judgement coming from
us. Sure you didn't mean it and feel free to ignore this if you feel I'm being pedantic but reading this I felt like exploring other options first before PTS would make me a bad owner. I didn't feel that with anyone else's post.

 

[Birker2020]

I can understand if the horse is pottering around a field lame. If it can't get up or down in the stable or paddock. If it no longer feels it can run around and express joy and interest in its surroundings, or doesn't play over the fence anymore. If it doesn't eat up and loses weight or its coat looks dreadful. If it is clearly miserable with its head down, no longer expressing an interest in anything around it. If it has changed character suddenly.

But most of us know how a horse presents that has a good quality of life. And whilst I agree that 'it is not life at all costs' there are sometimes other options available if the horse doesn't fit the above criteria. Its certainly not 'a death at all costs' either and people shouldn't be made to feel bad for considering other options.

 

[Sealine]

You've given your horse a lovely year of retirement. Making a decision to PTS is never easy but it's perfectly justified in this situation and far better for both of you than giving her an uncertain future. Horses live in the moment and harsh as it may sound they don't know there is no tomorrow when we make the PTS decision.

 

[MagicMelon]

For me, I have a horse who is just an ornament. He is my retired eventer (through injury) who I feel I owe the world to. I would personally never put an animal to sleep for convenience. Yes I could certainly do without the costs of having to keep him (hes a 16hh TB type so generally am always piling food into him as he's skinny), I lost my job a few months ago so money is tight just now, but then Im sure most others are in the same boat. He's in his 20's but to be honest he still is doing great, I will only ever put him down once theres an actual vet reason to do so or if he's seriously struggling through winters etc. but I dont feel the time is yet by any means. I'll do my best for him as long as he's happy. I hope I find him dead in the field one morning after he's passed away quietly in his sleep so selfishly I then dont have to make the dreaded decision but I know thats unlikely.

I remember hearing that a girl I knew of moved out of her parents house and couldnt take her 3 horses with her. All 3 horses were perfectly rideable still and she'd owned them years, theyd accomplished loads competing wise etc. She seemed to wash her hands of them and her mother had them all shot as she didnt want to look after them. I found that bitterly unfair for the poor horses who had loads left to give, but they couldnt even be bothered to try and find them nice homes, mainly because they had a snobby attitude that nobody else could possibly ride or look after them as well as they had done which is rubbish.

How about asking around and seeing if there is someone out there who wants a horse just to gentle hack? There ARE people out there who want just that, just nice lead horses for baby horses or to hack out quietely with their kids etc. Seems silly not to even ask around first.

My last horse was a truly lovely girl but she just wasnt well matched to me. I wanted to compete which she did successfully but I just didnt seem to gel with her riding-wise for some reason. I searched for months to find what I thought to be the right home, vetted it myself and then put her on loan to the person. I went to visit frequently to keep an eye on things and she kept me updated all the time. She then agreed to buy her and slowly paid her off in installments. It worked out great, they seem to love her and they only want to hack which is what the horse really enjoyed (but I didnt). There are lovely people out there, you just have to put the effort in to find them.

OP, ultimately you'll have a tonne of people on here saying PTS. Personally I wouldn't. Its really your choice and doesnt matter what anyone else says.

 

[ihatework]

For me the 2 main options are PTS or keep in retirement. Neither is more right or wrong than the other.

The third option worth exploring, dependant on the mare, would be an ET receipient. This is where large breeding studs loan mares to carry pregnancies. Your mare would need to be large enough, with good repro conformation, sound enough, happy to live naturally in a herd environment and importantly a good nature

 

[LaurenBay]

If the Horse is not needle phobic then I'd consider blood bank, if not then I would PTS.

 

[marmalade76]

Gosh, I could have written this only my horse isn't quite at retirement stage yet. I think the worst thing is to sell them on when the risk of mistreatment is so high. Of all the options I've identified for my own situation, selling is the least likely. I could probably sell mine quite easily if I didn't disclose her persistent problem with ulcers but she'd end up in pain and unhappy unless she found another mug willing to throw tens of thousands at her.

I think the poster who said about seeking permission for PTS is spot on, I want someone to tell me that I'd not be a terrible human for killing my horse if it comes to it. I'm not there yet but it's becoming more and more likely as I can not spend thousands treating her again.

It needs to become more accepted, the way the cost of everything is going, there will be a hell of a lot of horses neglected and abandoned otherwise, sounds awful, but the numbers of low value animals needs to be cut down.