While BE struggles - BD thrives

ycbm said:
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I'm not asking anyone to pay affiliation fees. I don't see why there can't be a free entry level where you can run at BE without paying an extra fee, in much the same way taht you can compete at BD intro and prelim without paying a fee. To compete at an affiliated event doesn't automatically equate to requiring to pay membership.
 
I think essentially though it does all come down to costs. If it cost the same to BE as Unaff it would be a no brainer to go BE but BE have priced themselves out the market and I for one am hugely grateful that there are decent Unaffs that I can do instead.

I love eventing but there's no way I can afford the costs of BE anymore. If they want to recapture the grassroots market, they need to lower their costs and the people will come back.
 
as a amateur who brings on horses, I really depend on the unaffiliated events as part of a training programme. I don't want to have to pay to register a horse or pay big entries fees for some horses. Sometimes it's nice to have a chance to bring green or unsure horses schooling around an unaffiliated, where you don't get a record, don't get your equi-ratings affected etc. The atmosphere tends to be quieter, the courses less technical and the warmups quieter. I think unaffiliated fills an important gap for some riders (especially with young horses). They also tend to be closer and cheaper!

I think in future I'll only affiliate horses that are very competitive or that I want to gain MERS for internationals on etc.
 
paddi22 said:
as a amateur who brings on horses, I really depend on the unaffiliated events as part of a training programme. I don't want to have to pay to register a horse or pay big entries fees for some horses. Sometimes it's nice to have a chance to bring green or unsure horses schooling around an unaffiliated, where you don't get a record, don't get your equi-ratings affected etc. The atmosphere tends to be quieter, the courses less technical and the warmups quieter. I think unaffiliated fills an important gap for some riders (especially with young horses). They also tend to be closer and cheaper!

I think in future I'll only affiliate horses that are very competitive or that I want to gain MERS for internationals on etc.
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paddi22 said:
as a amateur who brings on horses, I really depend on the unaffiliated events as part of a training programme. I don't want to have to pay to register a horse or pay big entries fees for some horses. Sometimes it's nice to have a chance to bring green or unsure horses schooling around an unaffiliated, where you don't get a record, don't get your equi-ratings affected etc. The atmosphere tends to be quieter, the courses less technical and the warmups quieter. I think unaffiliated fills an important gap for some riders (especially with young horses). They also tend to be closer and cheaper!

I think in future I'll only affiliate horses that are very competitive or that I want to gain MERS for internationals on etc.
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That all makes sense, bar the fact that it isn't the fact that it is 'unaffiliated' that makes it what you want - its the fact that you aren't getting a record, the atmosphere is quiet, the course isn't technical and they are closer. None of those things are *because* the event isn't aligned to a governance structure. There's no reason that you can't run schooling shows under a wider umbrella of affiliated sport - indeed BE ran some quite successfully when restarting after COVID. And if the event is run by a RC or PC, it isn't unaffiliated - it is just governed by a different NGB.

I know it seems like i'm picking at weirdly pointless things here - but its actually the fundamentals of how sport is regulated, administered and developed.

In a world where social license for the sport to operate is paramount, we've got to tackle the big questions about governance in order to ensure the long term future of the sport.

Now, I think you're in Ireland, where the social license question isn't quite such a big deal.... yet.... but it will be, it is just a matter of time.
 
I see your point Rachel now. when I think of it now Eventing Ireland DO run try-eventing which would be the closest thing to unaffiliated under a affiliated umbrella. It would be great if they could run more of them, in which case I wouldn't need to do unaffiliated.
 
paddi22 said:
I see your point Rachel now. when I think of it now Eventing Ireland DO run try-eventing which would be the closest thing to unaffiliated under a affiliated umbrella. It would be great if they could run more of them, in which case I wouldn't need to do unaffiliated.
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Just found the EI info on that - https://www.eventingireland.com/AboutEI/TabId/101/ArtMID/630/ArticleID/51/Try-Eventing.aspx

Sounds pretty good. Exact format can be set by the organiser, no registration fees, cap on entry fee... perfect young horse/novice rider introduction by the sounds of it.
 
RachelFerd said:
I'm not asking anyone to pay affiliation fees. I don't see why there can't be a free entry level where you can run at BE without paying an extra fee, in much the same way taht you can compete at BD intro and prelim without paying a fee. To compete at an affiliated event doesn't automatically equate to requiring to pay membership.
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You do have to pay a fee to run at Intro/Prelim with BD - you either need to pay for tickets or be a Quest member, but you can also do the quest classes with this - its basically a reduced membership for specific classes and I assume the idea is that people can try at a cheaper price, then hopefully want to move over to full membership
 
yeah they changed it a while back. but i think you get access to quite a lot with club membership, it's not very expensive and as well as standard low level classes you get what is like BD's offering to rival unaff in Quest, which is protected from the big boys etc, plus you get the PL insurance. a light touch, but with decent benefits.
 
leflynn said:
You do have to pay a fee to run at Intro/Prelim with BD - you either need to pay for tickets or be a Quest member, but you can also do the quest classes with this - its basically a reduced membership for specific classes and I assume the idea is that people can try at a cheaper price, then hopefully want to move over to full membership
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Ah, I'm clearly not up to date with the BD levels post introduction of Quest. We've got lots of quest members on our yard, so clearly as a membership level it is appealing and working well.
 
The problem for me with Quest is that I have too many points at Novice for my youngster to go that route so we have to just sign up to full membership when we are at that stage. If I am a full member we can compete at Prelim Silver but if we were only Club registered we would have to start at Novice.
Although there is a free membership level that means we can go training so that works for me currently. BD offers a decent amount of options for training for adults, something which my BE friends have said is lacking for the older members.
 
milliepops said:
yeah they changed it a while back. but i think you get access to quite a lot with club membership, it's not very expensive and as well as standard low level classes you get what is like BD's offering to rival unaff in Quest, which is protected from the big boys etc, plus you get the PL insurance. a light touch, but with decent benefits.
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just done away with PL insurances it’s now like BRC.
I am a club member and have loads I can do and I am not your average ‘club’ person but I do like the consistency in competition
 
Laafet said:
The problem for me with Quest is that I have too many points at Novice for my youngster to go that route so we have to just sign up to full membership when we are at that stage. If I am a full member we can compete at Prelim Silver but if we were only Club registered we would have to start at Novice.
Although there is a free membership level that means we can go training so that works for me currently. BD offers a decent amount of options for training for adults, something which my BE friends have said is lacking for the older members.
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Laafet said:
The problem for me with Quest is that I have too many points at Novice for my youngster to go that route so we have to just sign up to full membership when we are at that stage. If I am a full member we can compete at Prelim Silver but if we were only Club registered we would have to start at Novice.
Although there is a free membership level that means we can go training so that works for me currently. BD offers a decent amount of options for training for adults, something which my BE friends have said is lacking for the older members.
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your point about points has frustrated one of my team this year. Not competed BD for 7 years. Never gone above elem but can’t do club prelim. I do think it should be a 5 year rule and not more than 2 levels above type thing on it as seems a bit harsh
 
back to a championship for everyone :p :p

Quest stuff is supposed to be an introduction to aff dressage isn't it... if you've had your crack at it then there are other options, you can even do prelim gold champs these days.
 
I think the BD and BS club memberships are a great idea for trying to attract the grassroots riders. They're cheap enough that you might as well give them a go and they introduce you to the structure of aff comps and hopefully will give you the encouragement and confidence to progress and become a full member.

With the PAYG that BE have introduced they're so close to the same thing but unfortunately the additional £15 every time you compete adds up too much.

Eta - Actually just saw that BE's introductory membership is £80 and that's intended for BE90 and below. Not at all the same thing as the £30 from BD & BS.
 
Squeak said:
I think the BD and BS club memberships are a great idea for trying to attract the grassroots riders. They're cheap enough that you might as well give them a go and they introduce you to the structure of aff comps and hopefully will give you the encouragement and confidence to progress and become a full member.

With the PAYG that BE have introduced they're so close to the same thing but unfortunately the additional £15 every time you compete adds up too much.

Eta - Actually just saw that BE's introductory membership is £80 and that's intended for BE90 and below. Not at all the same thing as the £30 from BD & BS.
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The BS Club thing is fundamentally a bit stupid though, because you can't actually compete at a normal BS show, and the club calendar is poor - there are hardly any shows.
 
RachelFerd said:
The BS Club thing is fundamentally a bit stupid though, because you can't actually compete at a normal BS show, and the club calendar is poor - there are hardly any shows.
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Club is propped up round here by Just for Schools. Not a single person I know actually does the club league thing. We just go for decent built unaff.
 
I just don't understand why the registration fees have to be so expensive. I understand the event entries need to cost a certain amount which is fine but why the registration? For example British gymnastics membership for a recreational gymnast is £19 and covers local and some regional competitions. Competitive gymnast is £43 for the year for regionals onwards. They will also have similar challenges with insurance, training, standards etc as it's a dangerous sport. I bet if BE registration was £40 quid, with horse registration at £10/£15 (admin to check your passport and vaccs) then it would be a lot more popular. What are you getting for your person and horse registration?

I've had a look at the member benefits and honestly does anyone want the magazine (e or paper?), personally I don't need insurance as I already have 3rd party normal insurance with vets insurance. Ive had a look on the website and there isn't any adult training at 80 in the north. I only really go and spectate at the bigger events, smaller ones I would only go with a friend (therefore wouldn't pay as would be in the lorry). If they could explain what the registration fees are covering (I suspect it's a lot unnecessary admin and big salaries...) That could help!
 
Jango said:
I just don't understand why the registration fees have to be so expensive. I understand the event entries need to cost a certain amount which is fine but why the registration? For example British gymnastics membership for a recreational gymnast is £19 and covers local and some regional competitions. Competitive gymnast is £43 for the year for regionals onwards. They will also have similar challenges with insurance, training, standards etc as it's a dangerous sport. I bet if BE registration was £40 quid, with horse registration at £10/£15 (admin to check your passport and vaccs) then it would be a lot more popular. What are you getting for your person and horse registration?

I've had a look at the member benefits and honestly does anyone want the magazine (e or paper?), personally I don't need insurance as I already have 3rd party normal insurance with vets insurance. Ive had a look on the website and there isn't any adult training at 80 in the north. I only really go and spectate at the bigger events, smaller ones I would only go with a friend (therefore wouldn't pay as would be in the lorry). If they could explain what the registration fees are covering (I suspect it's a lot unnecessary admin and big salaries...) That could help!
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Absolutely my thoughts!!! I get we need to pay a bit for admin, judge and steward training, safety research etc, but sometimes I suspect we must be paying for gold lined offices! We pay rider reg, horse reg, start fees and increased entry fees - I just really don't feel at the lower levels we get value for money at all.
 
This came down out of the loft today, quite by chance. It was taken nearly 30 years ago in 1993, and from the number bib it's an unaffiliated competition, which I think clearly shows that before BE went down the heights, unaffiliated eventing over some quality courses was alive and well.

20220406_141710.jpg

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