Who crates their dogs overnight?

[Kaylum]

I dont crate and never have done. Prefer to train mine. Wouldnt say anything about someone else crating theirs but for me personally I dont like the get out and put away thing.

I also go away a lot and take her with me. I can trust her if I have to leave her to go out and know she wont have wrecked anything when we get back.

 

[TGM]

I dont crate and never have done. Prefer to train mine.

You see I don't see it as a crate versus training issue. You can train a dog AND use a crate you know! It is just that a crate can help during the training period - the idea being that eventually the dog will be fully house-trained without using the crate.

 

[s4sugar]

I use a crate in hotel rooms so my dogs need to be crate trained.

It is always useful to be prepared eg for after surgury and is as well as house training not instead of.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Is that really the insinuation though? If you use a crate, you 'can't be bothered' to 'train' your dogs?!
Please someone actually tell me they believe this, so I can pass out laughing

 

[Kaylum]

Is that really the insinuation though? If you use a crate, you 'can't be bothered' to 'train' your dogs?!
Please someone actually tell me they believe this, so I can pass out laughing

Not sure why you would think its insinutation? I dont like the put away thing. My dog is just that a dog. She is well trained so knows right from wrong. No need to crate a dog that knows how to behave? Otherwise dont you trust your dog? Why crate in the first place or feel the need to have to crate? Our rescue jr wasnt even house trained when we got her but she soon learned without being crated and she was 2 years old. The OP asked a question and I answered. there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[TGM]

No need to crate a dog that knows how to behave?

But no-one is suggesting crating a dog that knows how to behave! They are suggesting crating dogs that haven't yet learnt to behave AS AN INTERIM MEASURE until they learn exactly where is acceptable to soil. No-one is saying don't bother training your dog because you can just crate them all the time instead.

 

[Kaylum]

But no-one is suggesting crating a dog that knows how to behave! They are suggesting crating dogs that haven't yet learnt to behave AS AN INTERIM MEASURE until they learn exactly where is acceptable to soil. No-one is saying don't bother training your dog because you can just crate them all the time instead.

Exactly training them? Some are always kept in crates overnight though so how will they learn? Interesting to see the newer ways of training compared to the older ways!

 

[CorvusCorax]

He is a young, high energy dog with more spunk and drive than most pets, however when he is in the crate he is like a lamb and chills out, it is somewhere where I can put him when we have visitors around who do not like dogs, it is somewhere I can put him if I am visiting other people who do not want a dog running around, or if I need to work on something and not be confronted by a large dog who wants to sit on my knee at the same time - he has been dry since a pup as another poster has said, it is part of house training, but not all of house training.
Again, if he ever needs to be confined for a medical reason, he will not freak out.

He is the type of dog who always has to have something in his mouth and because of the way I am training him I do not want to have to tell him off every time he brings me something and no, I do not trust him to not touch soft furnishings overnight, cause they is chewy and I cannot sit up all night waiting for him to touch the soft furnishings then issue a correction/distrations and/or give him an alternative, which is what I do when he is out of the crate.
My old bitch, who was not a chewy dog at all, swallowed two pairs of tights when unattended, nearly died and accrued a huge vet bill when they wound around her gut.

I spend a lot of time, money and effort training my dogs, doing a wee tiny bit more than just house training, please don't assume I am 'lazy' or 'cannot be bothered'.
A lot of people I know have trained their dog to spend time in a crate and these are mostly high-performing competition or service dogs as well as pets, I think they'd do more than laugh if you suggested they 'couldn't be bothered'

Believe me, I know the difference between a happy dog and an unhappy dog, and mine is the former, not the latter

 

[CAYLA]

You see I don't see it as a crate versus training issue. You can train a dog AND use a crate you know! It is just that a crate can help during the training period - the idea being that eventually the dog will be fully house-trained without using the crate.

^^^^ exactly, it is but a different way of training, you will end up with the same result, only some people use the crate forever more as the dog becomes very accustomed to using it.
I actually see a crate as a fantastic tool for seperation anxiety, IMO it is far more distressing to leave an adult rescue dog with severe SA the run of a room/house to work up more anxiety (that someone was far to lazy to train) so they dumped it on a rescue and the next owner was contemplaiting the same as they just could not cope with the house being destroyed and them not being able to leave the house, the crate then becomes an invaluable tool and creates the security the dog needs.

The argument of abuse can be shared with anything! a kennel, house or room can be abused in the same way, you can still leave a dog locked in a kennel 24/7 with no food or stimulation and slowly starve it to death (should they not be used for this reason?) same with a stable, again should be ban the use of them? it's common sense and being responsible, it is a very positive process introducing and using a crate.

I do not NEED to crate my own dogs but I an not of the thought process that that no body else should use a crate, because I "understand" why crates are used and what a fantastic training "tool" they can be.
We all lead different lifestyles and every dog is different, IMO it is a far more stressing and drawn out process to say allow a dog to keep urinating and defecating indoors or pull up carpets and allow the dog to keep messing in the hope the dog grows out of "whatever" it is doing when left, or simply shutting it in a room and hoping for the best, because the frenzie the dog whips it's self up into unbeknown to you is pretty horrendous. And is this not a way of avoiding training?

As s4sugar suggests, crating is also a very good way to prepare you dog for stays at the vets or rest periods, the amount of people I have seen wanting to pull their hair out or the healing process for an operation drawn out simply because an owner could not confine their dog, or the stress a dogs whips it's self up into in vets when an inpatient is unreal and rather sad to watch and distressing for the dog. Some because they are in a strange environment obs but others simply because they have never been contained before and they become very distressed. Crates do have their place and are a fantastic training tool, and some may never need them but for some and for dogs they can be an invaluable life saver in ore ways than one.

OP, it is certainly worth a try, your dog could obs be passing faeces/urinate to to old age and as suggested trying feeding earlier and leaving a measured amount of water may help but in the instance it does not then a crate or even creating a small space without the use of a crate would do not harm if introduced positively, it could also be it has become habit/routine for her to pass motions, or something could be disturbing her which in turn could see her pacing around the floor from her bed, or ot could be the break of light, so a black out blind, radio on low or the crate with a blanket over it may see her more settled.

I know I just boarded a 16 yr old terrier and it has been urinating and deficating in their home now for a good year overnight (been vet checked), I crated him here and he slept right through (lets not forget crates dont silence them so he obviously felt more secure within the crate and it took away his pacing (which was distressing him) as he slept and snored all night and was dry as a bone in the morning when I let him out for the toilet, he then went straight back to the crate where the door was left open till night again when I closed it. His owners have now used a crate and he is dry, of course they can gradually outsource it once again, it is just creating a new routine for him, much the same as he was getting himself into when piddling and poohing all over. As some dogs simply wont wake you.

 

[CAYLA]

Exactly training them? Some are always kept in crates overnight though so how will they learn? Interesting to see the newer ways of training compared to the older ways!

And alot of those who carry on using the crate when it can easily be outsourced do so because the dog becomes so comfortable and accustomed to it.
If I put a crate up for a new rescue arrival, all of my own will try to get in, even though they have the settee, or comfy beds or sleeping bags. Dogs like crates/small spaces and will " shockingly" choose to take them selves into them without force

 

[4faults]

I crate my terriers when I'm out, they have a huge crate which they love, they have toys, food, water and beds in there. The big dog goes in the kitchen with them but is loose. I do this because I live in a rented house. Overnight my bedroom is a free for all, dog beds everywhere and the odd dog on the bed ;-)

 

[blackcob]

FWIW - I found a crate absolutely invaluable in combating severe separation anxiety, and in fact fail to see how I could have done it without one as she was systematically destroying the house. As Cayla says it would have been more cruel to continue leaving her loose as it allowed the anxiety to escalate, she was pinging off the walls and frantically searching for things to destroy; the crate presented the option to lie quietly and chew appropriate tasty things.

The newest dog came to us as a two and a half year old who had never been in a crate before and with no issues that would lead us to try crate training him. He's in it right now, upside down with his bits hanging out, snoring. Give them a treat and they race to be the first to take it to the crate. It's a safe zone, their bed, their space. The door is never closed these days, even when I'm out, but the bitch often will take herself in there when I go to put my shoes in in expectation of a nice treat.

One sleeps on the sofa at night, the other on a bed on the landing outside our room. I keep the crate around for the above reasons (simply, that they like it!) and for the rare occasion when we have non-dog people in the house - gas meter reader, for example, or the police officers we had here a while back, one of whom was desperate to let them out and say hello but the other one wouldn't let him, proper good cop bad cop routine.

 

[Alec Swan]

Is that really the insinuation though? If you use a crate, you 'can't be bothered' to 'train' your dogs?!
Please someone actually tell me they believe this, so I can pass out laughing

Whilst donning a full body suit(), explain to me the difference between a dog's bed, and a cage, except that one contains the dog. What's the first thing which a bitch teaches a pup, and the first thing that we teach them? To stay where they're put, may well be the answer. Containing or forcing them to stay where they are put, is a cop out, in my view. I accept that we don't agree.

It isn't a case of lack of care, knowledge, or laziness, but more a case that those dogs which live within a house, and learn and understand where their bed is, will all so often, be so much more amenable when receiving further instructions.

But no-one is suggesting crating a dog that knows how to behave! They are suggesting crating dogs that haven't yet learnt to behave AS AN INTERIM MEASURE .......

The simple answer, in my view, is to short circuit the system, teach the dog from Day 1 that you mean what you say, and I suspect that those who put dogs in cages, difficult though the first day or two may be, will end up with a happier dog, a happier self, AND the bloody kitchen (or wherever) wont be an obstacle course for the two legged inhabitants.

The answer is simple, as I see it, "That's your bed, and you will stay on it until invited to move, and when you understand that I mean what I say, THEN, I may allow you a little more freedom within MY home. You're a dog, and that's that!!"

I know of a delightful lady, not so far from me, who on a regular basis, over the years has gone out and bought some very useful young sheep dogs. She would tell the world that she's a sheep-dog-trialler. She's hopeless. She's wrecked one good dog after another, and so I understand, she now has NINE cages, all within her ample kitchen, and each one contains a now useless dog. A friend suggested that she hired out her kitchen to the army, as an obstacle course. She hasn't been invited round for tea, recently!!

It will be obvious how I feel about dogs being kept in cages, within a house, but whilst much of this has been tongue-in-cheek, I really do feel that a dog which understands where it's bed is, and what it's for, is a dog which will learn to think for itself.

One caveat to the above forthright thoughts, and it's important. I will accept that as most dogs would find soiling there beds to be difficult, it may well be an answer to the dog which proves impossible to house train.

With a BP vest, I shall now retire!

Alec.

 

[RutlandH2O]

I think the important thing to realise here is the fact that dogs are denning animals (think wolves). A crate should never be used as a place of punishment. It is a lair, a safe place, especially when pups and/or dogs are brought into a new environment. I think crates are a valuable tool in the management of pups. My babies have always been crate trained, and in so doing, become house-broken. They love their "space." I have always left a crate available to the dogs, with the door removed or tied open. It's also invaluable when leaving the house and knowing the pup can't chew an electric wire or chair leg. I've never had a problem. And I don't have to crate them overnight as they mature. When they are young, a crate-trained dog is a pleasure on a car journey. Crate training also minimises the stress a dog will encounter in the event he has to remain at the vet's for medical treatment. I see crate training as a win win situation.

 

[blackcob]

That's something I forgot to add in my post - both dogs have had to be crated at various times for veterinary treatment, one for a couple of days (dislocated hip) and it is good to know that they will settle in that situation and even be reassured by the fact that they're confined.

They also have to be crated to travel, must settle in the car crate for short periods at competitions, training rallies etc. and again it's ideal that I can pop them in the crate and know that they will be quiet and chill out in what can otherwise be quite stressful situations.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Whilst donning a full body suit(), explain to me the difference between a dog's bed, and a cage, except that one contains the dog. What's the first thing which a bitch teaches a pup, and the first thing that we teach them? To stay where they're put, may well be the answer. Containing or forcing them to stay where they are put, is a cop out, in my view....

....will end up with a happier dog, a happier self, AND the bloody kitchen (or wherever) wont be an obstacle course for the two legged inhabitants

.....It will be obvious how I feel about dogs being kept in cages, within a house

- Well one is lovely and fluffy and must DIE and the other is not. It is still a bed, just one with a door on it.

- I've never met a happier, more gregarious dog

- But you kennel dogs? Why don't you just tell them to 'stay where they are put' when they are outside?

- I do know how to tell a dog to stay where it is put, it is called the 'long down' or 'downstay' exercise and I managed to get the big dog to do a very respectable one in just two weeks.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Oh BH the crate debate has started again, a dog ,trained to use a crate chooses yes chooses to go into their crate because its safe. A crate trained dog retains all its faculties and is as happy as any other normal dog.

 

[CorvusCorax]

We haven't had a flouncer yet, we had a great flounce last time!

 

[Dobiegirl]

We haven't had a flouncer yet, we had a great flounce last time!

I cant remember who flounced last time seriously though you would think it was the tool of the devil.

Its funny how this forum works people get really worked up about this and yet puppy farming dosnt warrant a reply.

 

[TGM]

The simple answer, in my view, is to short circuit the system, teach the dog from Day 1 that you mean what you say, and I suspect that those who put dogs in cages, difficult though the first day or two may be, will end up with a happier dog, a happier self, AND the bloody kitchen (or wherever) wont be an obstacle course for the two legged inhabitants.

The answer is simple, as I see it, "That's your bed, and you will stay on it until invited to move, and when you understand that I mean what I say, THEN, I may allow you a little more freedom within MY home. You're a dog, and that's that!!"

Oh, if life were quite that simple! Take the 11 yo dog I have been unexpectedly landed with. Am I to stay up all night watching over her to ensure that she stays in her bed and doesn't soil the floor? Not a realistic option for me, so I just shut the door of the crate overnight (she tends to head for the crate automatically over the dog bed anyway). Then in the morning I can let her out in the garden and praise her effusively when she empties her bowels in the right place! The idea being that she will then get into the habit of using the lawn rather than the kitchen floor. No worries about the room being an obstacle course as the crate fits neatly under a stretch of worktop.

 

[GeeGeeboy]

Wow! Think I've started a debate! Have read all the replies, very interesting . Someone pointed out that I should try to housetrain her from scratch. Believe me I have tried and done all the things that the poster suggested. Unfortunately it hasn't worked, think the old girl is a bit senile so the crate would be a last resort. Still considering it though. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Wow! Think I've started a debate! Have read all the replies, very interesting . Someone pointed out that I should try to housetrain her from scratch. Believe me I have tried and done all the things that the poster suggested. Unfortunately it hasn't worked, think the old girl is a bit senile so the crate would be a last resort. Still considering it though. Thanks for all the replies.

Ahhh bless her, crate training won't work if she is a bit doo laaaalleyyyy in the head tho! Why don't you take her to the vets and see if they can't prescribe something to help with her brain.. some drugs can increase oxygen levels to the brain and help

 

[Alec Swan]

-
- But you kennel dogs? Why don't you just tell them to 'stay where they are put' when they are outside?

.......

Of course, but leaving a dog, unattended, and out doors wouldn't be a sensible option, as you will be well aware. I do my level best to never give a dog an instruction, without being in a position to be certain of compliance, and neither, I suspect, would you!

.......a dog ,trained to use a crate chooses yes chooses to go into their crate because its safe.

.....but no greater perceived safety that its own bed. I knew someone who put dogs in crates, to protect the dogs from her children. Stupid woman.

We haven't had a flouncer yet, we had a great flounce last time!

Those who "Flounce" (lovely word! ), tend to do so because they run out of valid points, I think!

To me it seems, its all about the dog, and rightly so. A dog which sees its bed as a sanctuary, a place of rest and peace, is a happier animal. If the door is permanently open, then I fail to see the benefit to a cage, but there we are. We seem to agree to disagree, which is progress, if nothing else, and as you say, not a Flouncer in sight, yet!

Whilst hardly a voice in the wilderness, I seem to be in a minority. I enjoy debate, and though others may find this hard to accept, I read the majority of posts on here, with genuine interest, and an almost open mind!

Alec.

 

[splashgirl45]

why does everything have to be black and white... crating is a useful aid to housetraining and also is handy to travel dogs and to allow the car have all windows and the back open , when stationeryobviously... my lurcher still sleeps in her crate which is in my spare bedroom, it has a blanket over it and a bed inside and the door is tied open. as far as she is concerned it is her bed and she is comfortable in there. i also used a crate when i got my new puppy so i could leave her in it when i went out so she was safe. i dont think my lurcher would have hurt her but i wouldnt take the chance. like everything, they have their place if used sensibly.....

 

[lizness]

I crate overnight! Winston is 2 now (!) and when I got him (off Cayla) at 10weeks he was practiclly house trained I think with help form the crate. I still crate and I don't see any reason not too, he goes about 11.30-6.30. He goes into his bed at night and you sometimes need to wake him in the morning! I like how I can leave things laying about chocolate etc... I know that the cat will not be pestered. It is very useful if I go to stay with parents or someone else so I know that he is safe.

 

[Toffee44]

Dylan and Teal crate over night with the doors open.........obviously a very cruel place for them to go. And I have only set the crates back up for a week in preperation for the boys visit to the vets.

I remember starting a debate like this is in my first AAD post lol.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Whilst donning a full body suit(), explain to me the difference between a dog's bed, and a cage, except that one contains the dog. What's the first thing which a bitch teaches a pup, and the first thing that we teach them? To stay where they're put, may well be the answer. Containing or forcing them to stay where they are put, is a cop out, in my view. I accept that we don't agree.

It isn't a case of lack of care, knowledge, or laziness, but more a case that those dogs which live within a house, and learn and understand where their bed is, will all so often, be so much more amenable when receiving further instructions.



The simple answer, in my view, is to short circuit the system, teach the dog from Day 1 that you mean what you say, and I suspect that those who put dogs in cages, difficult though the first day or two may be, will end up with a happier dog, a happier self, AND the bloody kitchen (or wherever) wont be an obstacle course for the two legged inhabitants.

The answer is simple, as I see it, "That's your bed, and you will stay on it until invited to move, and when you understand that I mean what I say, THEN, I may allow you a little more freedom within MY home. You're a dog, and that's that!!"

I know of a delightful lady, not so far from me, who on a regular basis, over the years has gone out and bought some very useful young sheep dogs. She would tell the world that she's a sheep-dog-trialler. She's hopeless. She's wrecked one good dog after another, and so I understand, she now has NINE cages, all within her ample kitchen, and each one contains a now useless dog. A friend suggested that she hired out her kitchen to the army, as an obstacle course. She hasn't been invited round for tea, recently!!

It will be obvious how I feel about dogs being kept in cages, within a house, but whilst much of this has been tongue-in-cheek, I really do feel that a dog which understands where it's bed is, and what it's for, is a dog which will learn to think for itself.

One caveat to the above forthright thoughts, and it's important. I will accept that as most dogs would find soiling there beds to be difficult, it may well be an answer to the dog which proves impossible to house train.

With a BP vest, I shall now retire!

Alec.

Are you saying that you would put an 8 or 9 weeks old pup on its bed and demand it STAY until you release it from your command overnight? In that case, the crate offers a hell of a lot more freedom. To suggest that a crate trained dog is less happy and less able to think for itself is absurd. I would think a very young pup in your training regime would a) become extremely apprehensive and b) lack the ability to "think" for itself, while you are demanding it stay put. As you say above, "forcing them to stay where they are put is a cop out."

 

[CAYLA]

Lol, the great crate debate

A few pointers to those who say " I prefer to train" it is actually alot easier to allow destruction and put up with piddle and crap (although may not smell to grand or your house looks so nice) believe it or not! crating involves alot more training and involves alot of patience as I mentioned the lazier way would be to let the dog carry on with the destruction or indeed "get shot of the dog" which is a common method used to tackle destruction or pishing issues.

I could also say for arguments sake, I can leave my akita out of her kennel and she will not venture from my garden weather I am there or not, nor would she leave my horses field even though the inadequate fencing allowed it, so therefor I have proved kennels/fencing are not needed either, because I trained her properly or I can walk my akita off lead anywhere so therefor I have proved leads are not needed! If I can train an akita to do these things then ALL dogs are surely the same

In the link that DG included, they are using an ancient dog and are clearly standing with it (taking a cutesy picture) and have not once mentioned SA problems or toileting problems or rental houses or 1 dog in a household, or travelling or visiting family, or vet visits, or any other factors that make crate training invaluable . I assume they are a Kennel based rescue also, I wonder if they rehome to people who use kennels or can truely assess a dog in regard to toileting or SA when they have only seen it in "their rescue kennels"
Also as mentioned if a dog can be trained to remain in a bed when told then what is the difference between the dog not being able/allowed/trained to not leave the bed and a one in a crate with the door closed, is the difference not just an invisible barrier

I also wonder how many people have taken a dog from a pound to find when they try to leave the dog in their home, it chews or passes urine and faeces/barks? and exaclty what advice they gave to tackle this

 

[Alec Swan]

Are you saying that you would put an 8 or 9 weeks old pup on its bed and demand it STAY until you release it from your command overnight? .......

No, of course I'm not. The very best way to dull a puppies future ability to take in commands, is to bore it whilst it's still a baby-in-arms. My OH would object (correction, hit the roof!), but the best place for a puppy of that age, is on my bed, with me!

Surprised?

Alec.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I was just going to raise the point about an 8 week old pup, which is when I start crating. Yes you can place a pup in its bed and encourage it to stay there, but if it is night time that pup ain't going to stay till morning. It is however quite likely to chew doors, table legs etc, as I know to my cost from having pups for many years pre crates. I have I think used crates for my last 4 or 5 dogs, without exception they have become clean in the house very quickly (Pickle the heeler was clean overnight from day 1) and they have treated their crate as a place of sanctuary.
Evie was crated, with the dog shut, overnight until fairly recently. This was because she shared the kitchen with Buffy and as Buff had problems with her sight and occasionally had painful flare ups which involved her crying in pain, so it was safer for both to keep them separate.
And yes Alec I have put a dog in a crate to protect it from children, not my children but from a visiting child who would not leave the dog alone, this was an old bitch who had recently had an eye removed, normally she adored children but at this time I felt she deserved some peace and quiet.