Who crates their dogs overnight?

[CorvusCorax]

Yes but those beagles never got out of their cages.
Looking forward to taking my 'institutionalised' dog for a run on the beach tonight as usual

ETA I see those who use crates don't feel the need to label those who don't as 'too stupid to realise how a crate works properly' but are supposed to accept being called lazy, can't be bothered nutters who institutionalise their dogs because that would be wrong, and rude, wouldn't it?

 

[Murphy88]

It's a clear case of every dog is an individual. My two terriers bolt for any possible dark/ snuggly place! they love to be under a duvet or blanket and the only place to achieve that was in their crate!

This ^^. Pickle won't settle in the living room in the evenings unless he has a cat bed/blanket on his head, he digs up anything he can find to cover himself if a cat bed isn't available.

I fail to see how we are 'institutionalising' him though. After his walk today I left him loose in the kitchen and went upstairs, when I came back down he was asleep in his cage, of his own free will. He puts himself in his cage at bedtime, and I follow and give him a treat and shut the door. I have to wake him in the morning, he sleeps til 8.30 without a peep. But if anyone wishes to rescue the poor ickle thing from my evil clutches, feel free, I can put him in the post tomorrow.

 

[Ranyhyn]

It's because you brainwashed him into thinking that's right... I think that's the upshot?
Maybe so, but dogs are brainwashed into not taking a shite on the couch. Sure, they don't care if they do or don't - but I'd rather they didn't. So I brainwash/institutionalise them into going outside.

 

[katie4002]

I love my crate - Thanks to Cayla for her help and advice!!

New rescue dog had wee'd or poo'd on the floor (shut in the kitchen with other dog) every night for four weeks straight, no matter how late we took him out or how early we got up - one night due to work we were only in bed for four hours - he'd toilet inside. The except was three nights when brother was staying and sleeping in lounge next to the kitchen = no toilet.

Picked up crate yesterday, intending to introduce gradually. Set it up in the morning, he was in and out (of his own accord!) all day. After afternoon walk, he had dinner in crate and then went straight in and fell asleep all evening. Took him out last thing, he went back into crate. Shut the door, covered him up, and he slept soundly all night, no noise and best of all no mess.

And he's been back in there today (along with the other dog I might add!!) sleeping with the door open.

Happy dog and happy owners!

 

[SusieT]

Regardless-they stayed in theri crates of their 'own free will' obviously that is an acceptable thing then? At what point does it become wrong?

 

[Dobiegirl]

Cratedebate/gate started just after I joined but didnt instigate, I did put in my 2psworth though and "me mammys rescue" will live long in the memory.

Perhaps Im jumping to conclusions here but I cant help thinking a couple of posters who are anti crate might be older than the average poster. I was always taught it is pointless getting older if you dont get wiser and always keep an open mind. Before you jump on me and accuse me of being ageist I am probabley one of the oldest on this forum just ask Cayla(she kept tripping over my zimmer frame). As to my user name Dobiewoman/Dobielady/DobieOAP didnt sound as nice as Dobiegirl

The last time I had puppies was in the 1990s and now having our new pup times have moved on and our Pip uses a crate which has made toilet training so easy. The secret is to train them to use their crate and use it as their bed. Everywhere she goes travelling she uses her crate, in strange houses with children and other dogs and that is her security .

Frodo what a lovely pic of Beezle and you have sunshine Ive almost forgotten what that is.

 

[RutlandH2O]

Yes but those beagles never got out of their cages.
Looking forward to taking my 'institutionalised' dog for a run on the beach tonight as usual

ETA I see those who use crates don't feel the need to label those who don't as 'too stupid to realise how a crate works properly' but are supposed to accept being called lazy, can't be bothered nutters who institutionalise their dogs because that would be wrong, and rude, wouldn't it?

^^^^^^Bravo! And, thank you!!

 

[CAYLA]

I love my crate - Thanks to Cayla for her help and advice!!

New rescue dog had wee'd or poo'd on the floor (shut in the kitchen with other dog) every night for four weeks straight, no matter how late we took him out or how early we got up - one night due to work we were only in bed for four hours - he'd toilet inside. The except was three nights when brother was staying and sleeping in lounge next to the kitchen = no toilet.

Picked up crate yesterday, intending to introduce gradually. Set it up in the morning, he was in and out (of his own accord!) all day. After afternoon walk, he had dinner in crate and then went straight in and fell asleep all evening. Took him out last thing, he went back into crate. Shut the door, covered him up, and he slept soundly all night, no noise and best of all no mess.

And he's been back in there today (along with the other dog I might add!!) sleeping with the door open.

Happy dog and happy owners!

I am especially glad to hear that.....may peace and cleanliness presume and he stay with you and your lovely family for offering him a place to crash you have clearly done what previous homes did not bother too "seek help/advice" and help him any way you can in order to keep him in a loving secure home
Regardless of what opinions are of crates. I for one know they are/can be an invaluable tool to help owners and insecure dogs get over many a hurdle to help them become a more confident and settled animal in a new environment, no point me explaining to indepthly (those I have sent guides to or spoke to may understand), I guess a long journey and some eye opening experiences got me there and the ability to understand exactly what "an owner" experiencing "certain behaviours" are going through and I am so glad it helps others and prevents more dogs landing back where they came from

Now where are our piccies of this doggi

 

[CAYLA]

Cratedebate/gate started just after I joined but didnt instigate, I did put in my 2psworth though and "me mammys rescue" will live long in the memory.

Perhaps Im jumping to conclusions here but I cant help thinking a couple of posters who are anti crate might be older than the average poster. I was always taught it is pointless getting older if you dont get wiser and always keep an open mind. Before you jump on me and accuse me of being ageist I am probabley one of the oldest on this forum just ask Cayla(she kept tripping over my zimmer frame). As to my user name Dobiewoman/Dobielady/DobieOAP didnt sound as nice as Dobiegirl

The last time I had puppies was in the 1990s and now having our new pup times have moved on and our Pip uses a crate which has made toilet training so easy. The secret is to train them to use their crate and use it as their bed. Everywhere she goes travelling she uses her crate, in strange houses with children and other dogs and that is her security .

Frodo what a lovely pic of Beezle and you have sunshine Ive almost forgotten what that is.

Very wise words from such a decrepit old lady




I very much doubt you are one of the oldest on the forum DG you are well hyper and full of the joys of spring and fecking hilarious though

 

[katie4002]

I am especially glad to hear that.....may peace and cleanliness presume and he stay with you and your lovely family for offering him a place to crash you have clearly done what previous homes did not bother too "seek help/advice" and help him any way you can in order to keep him in a loving secure home
Regardless of what opinions are of crates. I for one know they are/can be an invaluable tool to help owners and insecure dogs get over many a hurdle to help them become a more confident and settled animal in a new environment, no point me explaining to indepthly (those I have sent guides to or spoke to may understand), I guess a long journey and some eye opening experiences got me there and the ability to understand exactly what "an owner" experiencing "certain behaviours" are going through and I am so glad it helps others and prevents more dogs landing back where they came from

Now where are our piccies of this doggi

Just posted some in new thread

 

[RutlandH2O]

It's a very clever piece of marketing that says the cage is a 'crate', or a 'safe place' or a 'den'. None of my dogs go looking for dark corners to hide in. My terriers are not wolves. Look at those beagles who were rescued, terrified to leave their cages because they knew of nothing else. I would argue that that is insitutionalisation-not something I wish to carry out routinely on my dogs.

"Crate," "safe place," and "den" are not marketing blurbs for cages. They are terms of fact. Those rescued beagles WERE institutionalised, as they would have been if they had never been outside of a kitchen or shed, uncrated. The appropriate use of a crate as a training aid and secure haven works because dogs are denning animals. No one is suggesting that all dogs be crated all the time. Think again. Without wolves, you wouldn't have your terriers.

 

[SusieT]

No they are like us calling horses stables, stables rather than confined area. Not 'fact'. It is a cage. Pure and simple. People don't like to call it that. When we realise that instead of trying to call it a pretty name then you can move forward. But what difference is there between those beagles and dogs who sleep in their crate and are crated whilst owners are out at work? Both would remain in their crates with the door open...

 

[SusieT]

Bet their grateful when they spend 16+hours in a cage. I am making the point that whilst they may seem 'happy' in their cages leading owners to think they are dealing fine with the confinement., like the beagles who also look 'happy' in their cages the situation is not one that should be aspired to.
I would be very disappointed in my training if I could not train my dog to be safe and happy left in a house. Otherwise I would suspect my dog if therefore unhappy and unsatisfied in some way.

 

[SusieT]

How did new puppy owners ever cope without cages..

 

[CAYLA]

I DO call it a cage - it is only on here I call it a crate or people dont know what I am talking about

The difference SusieT is that the beagles know nothing else but their life in a cage - dogs who sleep in a cage, or are put in one whilst their owner is out, have other experiences in their lives like dog walks, playing, toys etc

I too always called them cage until I came here you weird bunch
The beagles lives in their cages 24/7 and proabbly pass their motions in a tray below, like battery hens, so they never get walked or go for car rides, or go to the beach like floofy or lounge on the settee when owner is home, or go to training class or go to the dog park or field....there is a huge difference.

A stable used the same way would be the difference of keeping a horse in 24/7 and chucking hay over the door like the picture someone once posted where the horse was literally standing on its own ****** and you could only see the horses feet when the door was opened the crap was piled so high.
OR
A horse temp stabled for illness/rest, or a one kept in one at night but released to a field or walked during the day or being ridden inbetween periods in the stable.

A rabbit kept in a hutch 24/7 or a rabbit in a hutch at night or when unsupervised for safety but otherwise has the run of the garden or comes in for periods inside the house.

All of the above can be abused and become a prison and they can also provide an invaluable tool in keeping animals.

 

[blackcob]

How did new puppy owners ever cope without cages..

One of my old school friends came to visit a while ago and was taken aback by the admittedly pretty huge 48" crate taking up one corner of the living room. She was so disparaging, "that's so cruel, I can't believe you'd put your dog in a cage" etc (unable to grasp that the door hadn't been shut in, ooh, six months at that point, and never since).

So I says, oh, what did you you do with your dogs as puppies then? Knowing full well that the answer was that her dad took the door off the pantry, leading off the kitchen, and put a board across the door to make a small pen. A bed was put in there, chews and toys, the radio left on in the kitchen. Pup went in the pantry whenever the family were out, at night time, enforced quiet/nap time, when there were too many exciting visitors etc... so, erm, that would be the same as a crate then.

She refused to concede the point as she couldn't see beyond the 'OMG it's a CAGE'.

Before I had the cage I wasn't coping at all with the piss and crap all over the floor, the skirting stripped out of the kitchen, the chewed wooden stairs, the spilt and raided kitchen bin among other things (the chewed up £20 note was a low point, as was the ingestion of a large amount of raisin cereal ).

 

[RutlandH2O]

No they are like us calling horses stables, stables rather than confined area. Not 'fact'. It is a cage. Pure and simple. People don't like to call it that. When we realise that instead of trying to call it a pretty name then you can move forward. But what difference is there between those beagles and dogs who sleep in their crate and are crated whilst owners are out at work? Both would remain in their crates with the door open...

I'm afraid you are playing semantics. Cage, crate, stable, confined area...which ones are pretty names? A cage is a crate and a stable is a confined area. And moving forward?? The difference between the beagles and dogs that sleep in their crates with the doors open is that the beagles know nothing else, the dogs go in by choice. I do believe you should move forward toward a clear understanding of the correct use of a crate, cage, pen, confined area in the responsible training and protection of young dogs.

 

[CAYLA]

Lol BC my mam used to use the pantry when we where younger for pups to stay when we where out and indeed people still used other "tools" of confinement, be it an outdoor kennel, or literally putting pup/dog outside to scream the place down or a large box/plastic crate.
Or shutting them in a room to scream, bark and cry and literally only do it when they went out and leave no stimulation and have the pup wee/pooh and little else as the room would have been stripped of everything as the pup will already have killed it
OR take the puppy everywhere they went and created the mother of all seperation anxieties, until eventually the pup grew out of the behaviours after years of stress or got rid of or ended up in a rescue center where alot of them do
OR let them roam the roads that was an effective way to keep the house intact many years back (the latch key dog)

At the rate we are breeding dogs these days, they cannot be passed on the way in which they used to and kennels are brimming so why not educate and help people and do it in a sensible manor in order to help them keep their/a dog, and even better start from a puppy and never even experience the probelsm in the first instance.

 

[MurphysMinder]

SusieT, I have reared and trained many more puppies without cages (like others I only call them crates on here cos others do) than I have with cages. We had chewed furniture etc for many years, my kitchen door still bears the teeth marks of a several members of my canine family. I was quite anti cages when they first started appearing, like you I used to think it was a lazy way of doing things. Then a very good friend and experienced trainer had a pup from me, and because the pup was going to be going to work with her in an office, she was cage trained from the start. I was so impressed with the way she took to the cage, and how quickly she became completely house trained that I used one for the next pup I kept, and have used them for each puppy since.
My mum always said no matter how long you were in dogs you never stopped learning till the day you die, she wasn't too impressed when I first used a cage for a pup, but she saw how well they worked, and if she were still around I have no doubt she would encompass cage training with great gusto.

 

[Murphy88]

Bet their grateful when they spend 16+hours in a cage. I am making the point that whilst they may seem 'happy' in their cages leading owners to think they are dealing fine with the confinement., like the beagles who also look 'happy' in their cages the situation is not one that should be aspired to.
I would be very disappointed in my training if I could not train my dog to be safe and happy left in a house. Otherwise I would suspect my dog if therefore unhappy and unsatisfied in some way.

I think you'll find I said cage in my earlier post. As for training, as I said, feel free to borrow Pickle, I expect him to be returned as a magical super puppy who does no wrong. Unfortunately, with only my inferior training, he is a mischievious, hyper puppy, who displays what I consider to be normal puppy behaviour.

Out of interest, how would you approach the following problems that would arise were he not crated overnight?
1. He adores our other dog, and wants to play most of the time. He is of a working breed that is known to have attitude, and his play is energetic and rough. Which is fine, until our 30kg GSD decided she is fed up of the 5kg puppy all night and bites back. I fail to see how you are supposed to train the play instinct out of a puppy, he is told off by Evie but will generally just keep going back. Our last heeler spent the last few years of her life locked away from our GSDs after a play fight turned serious, once GSD had had enough they could never be together again.
2. He chews wires - has pulled the telephone in kitchen off window ledge via cable and chewed it. This seems to be a quick way to electrocution.
3. He chews beds (only when he is loose), tea towels and hand towels. Tea towels are put on work surface, but he can jump up and reach them (along with anything else he can reach, today he got a poo bag off side and shredded it). He will leave things immediately when asked, but not a lot of use overnight when we're not there to give command.

I accept that everyone has different ways of doing things, however I do take offence to the assumption that because I use a cage my dog is unhappy. He chooses to sleep in there when loose in the kitchen because it is his bed and he likes it, same as if it were a normal bed - however I do believe he wouldn't like that as much, he likes the security of being covered, this evening he bounced around sofa until I threw a bed on his head then he disappeared from sight and hasn't woken since!

 

[Dobiegirl]

With our last 2 puppies back in the 1990s we went out for 2 hours, the pups were left with lots of toys but this was before the advent of cages. When we came back we couldnt get in the door because they had chewed the vinyl and rolled it against the door. My husband was none too pleased as he had only put it down the week before and it was expensive.

Our latest pup has used her cage from day 1 and we have had no problems with her chewing, used correctly they are amazing.

I dont know of anyone who leaves their dog for 16hours in a cage so dont know who you are referring to Susie.

 

[s4sugar]

I've used cages for travelling & shows since I first showed a terrier in the 1980's.

I don't know anyone who has ever used them for longer than about 8 hours overnight or for a few hours if left during the day.

Just because a few people use them incorrectly or inappropriately doesn't make crates a poor option.
It is people who don't know how to use them or that shriek Uuurgh a cage that condemn a lot of dogs to get dumped rather than worked with.
Just this month an hour of training and the loan of one of my crates allowed a young bitch to remain in the home who'd had her from eight weeks rather than come into breed rescue.

Tools are tools - a hammer is lethal if used as a weapon.

 

[Alec Swan]

....... so this would be Crategate III

You may well be right, just don't blame me!!

Alec.

 

[paisley]

There was actually Crategate II where there is reference to Crategate and Cayla's Mam so this would be Crategate III

Coming to AAD this summer: 'CrateGate IV- Wrath of Cayla's Mammy'

Also available in 3D

 

[Dobiegirl]

Coming to AAD this summer: 'CrateGate IV- Wrath of Cayla's Mammy'

Also available in 3D

I think Caylas Mammy is a mythCayla always said she was coming on AAD but she never did, perhaps she is a figment of Caylas highly over active imagination, perhaps Cayla is a orphen

 

[Alec Swan]

.......
Tools are tools - .......

Never a truer word!

Alec.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Mine isn't a cage, so I won't call it one, it's made of bloody plastic.

 

[Dobiegirl]

Norman Bates I am not, it was said very much tongue in cheek, Im sure Cayla will get it.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No, no, there are no psychos in this thread, honest

 

[blackcob]

It's a box in our house. "Daxy, inyerbox."

Adopted from our friend who has working spaniels in outside kennels, the dogs have to sit on their boxes before bowls are put down, the 'onyerbox' command always tickled me for some reason. Just the sight of a row of anticipatory spangles quivering on their kennels.