Who is in the wrong? Or both partly to blame?

[Caol Ila]

A friend of mine was walking her entire female Shi-Tzu in Glasgow. The little dog was in season. She lives in a flat, in the middle of the city. She has no access to a private space to walk the dog. Anyway, a male boxer, who was out, unsupervised, in the front garden area of a nearby tenement, jumped the fence and ran up to her. My friend picked up her dog. The boxer kept jumping up and putting his front legs on her. Somehow, my friend was able to stay calm, protect her dog, and not get bit. I think she said that she made her way to the flat the boxer had come from and managed to deliver him to the owners, who were totally unconcerned. "Oh, he gets out all the time." Nice.

Gotta agree with CanteringCarrot. The 'boys will be boys' attitudes towards entire female v. male dogs seem pretty damned reflective -- or indeed, indicting -- of our human society.

 

[marmalade76]

You should be able to walk your dog without being bothered by other dogs.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I mean, you can expect that other dogs might be interested, but you should be able to walk your dog when they're in heat.

I did it in Germany many a time with exactly zero issues, mostly because there are less f*ckwits there when it comes to dogs.

Mabel was on a leash, they tried to walk at a less busy time, and that's the best they could do minus just not walking their dog, which isn't right or fair either.

So Mabel was under control, essentially, but the other dog was not. The fault is on the dogs owner (the owner of the loose dog). Whenever you choose to keep an intact animal, your level of responsibility increases (this should go for humans too but ). OBaC was being responsible. The other dog shouldn't just continously escape. Male dogs can smell a female in heat from quite a distance, but I know quite a few intact dogs who still manage go stay contained and/or controlled! So the female shouldn't have to hide away while in heat!

I've always thought it interesting that people (mainly in the UK) are so concerned with walking their in heat dog that they have to hide them away from society until they've finished their cycle...all because males can't be controlled and it might drive them crazy. I just feel like there's a lot about society we can dissect from that (let's not tho!).

I think you were doing your best OBaC. I wouldn't say that you were at fault at all.

Edit: tried to clarify my points because I think my post was being read incorrectly! TL;DR you can walk your dog whenever you want, in heat or not, you shouldn't have to deal with other dogs running up and mounting yours!

Hear, hear! In Sweden it was illegal up until as late as 1988 to castrate/spay a healthy dog/bitch, yet, there was less unplanned litters in Sweden back then, probably because owners was more aware about that it was their responsibility to make sure such things didn't happen. As I used to hear Swedish dog owners say, a bitch is in general only in season twice a year, a dog is in season all the year around.

Unless the owner of a bitch in season does something stupid like letting their bitch loose in a public dog park, they are not asking for unwanted attention/trouble. A bitch in season have just as much right to under control go out for exercise, and to go to the toilet in public, as a bitch not in season, and dogs that is either entire, or castrated.
I've e.g. had dogs turn up outside my house when my bitches was in season, but I've also had dogs turn up when my bitches wasn't in season, or even when all of mine was spayed since years. I still remember a Poodle in my neighbourhood that is now since long dead, were the owner couldn't figure out how he maneged to get to my house when she had left him inside their locked house. Until she finally found out he'd figured out how to squeeze himself out through their cat flap.

But luckily for me, at least that Poodle wasn't owned by an idiot, she viewed it as her responsibility to try to control her dog, regardless whether my bitches were spayed or not, in season or not.
Anyhow, if you want to try to do something else for your bitch to get less attention from the neighbour's dog, until she gets spayed @ownedbyaconnie , maybe try getting a bottle of bitch spray? I thought bitch spray worked quite well on my bitches on the occasions when I remembered to use it.

 

[cauda equina]

A friend of mine was walking her entire female Shi-Tzu in Glasgow. The little dog was in season. She lives in a flat, in the middle of the city. She has no access to a private space to walk the dog. Anyway, a male boxer, who was out, unsupervised, in the front garden area of a nearby tenement, jumped the fence and ran up to her. My friend picked up her dog. The boxer kept jumping up and putting his front legs on her. Somehow, my friend was able to stay calm, protect her dog, and not get bit. I think she said that she made her way to the flat the boxer had come from and managed to deliver him to the owners, who were totally unconcerned. "Oh, he gets out all the time." Nice.

Gotta agree with CanteringCarrot. The 'boys will be boys' attitudes towards entire female v. male dogs seem pretty damned reflective -- or indeed, indicting -- of our human society.

Exactly - it seems as if victim blaming extends to dogs/bitches now

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

According to the OP he’s going a few doors away to visit a bitch in heat. He shouldn’t but I couldn’t get that riled up about it that I’d contact the dog warden and hope the dog got taken away.

He’s travelling about 100m and round a bend. So completely out of sight of his house. We live near a really busy road on one side and fields with sheep (and currently lambs) and cows on another. Plus then a common behind that with adders in the summer. Not only am I concerned for my dog but as an animal lover I worry whenever I see a loose dog.

There’s a lot that could go wrong and tbh my in season bitch is a bit of a red herring. Take my dog out of the equation and the owners are still completely irresponsible and selfish by being lax about safety regarding their dog. The dog could get on the road, worry the sheep etc.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Hear, hear! In Sweden it was illegal up until as late as 1988 to castrate/spay a healthy dog/bitch, yet, there was less unplanned litters in Sweden back then, probably because owners was more aware about that it was their responsibility to make sure such things didn't happen. As I used to hear Swedish dog owners say, a bitch is in general only in season twice a year, a dog is in season all the year around.

Unless the owner of a bitch in season does something stupid like letting their bitch loose in a public dog park, they are not asking for unwanted attention/trouble. A bitch in season have just as much right to under control go out for exercise, and to go to the toilet in public, as a bitch not in season, and dogs that is either entire, or castrated.
I've e.g. had dogs turn up outside my house when my bitches was in season, but I've also had dogs turn up when my bitches wasn't in season, or even when all of mine was spayed since years. I still remember a Poodle in my neighbourhood that is now since long dead, were the owner couldn't figure out how he maneged to get to my house when she had left him inside their locked house. Until she finally found out he'd figured out how to squeeze himself out through their cat flap.

But luckily for me, at least that Poodle wasn't owned by an idiot, she viewed it as her responsibility to try to control her dog, regardless whether my bitches were spayed or not, in season or not.
Anyhow, if you want to try to do something else for your bitch to get less attention from the neighbour's dog, until she gets spayed @ownedbyaconnie , maybe try getting a bottle of bitch spray? I thought bitch spray worked quite well on my bitches on the occasions when I remembered to use it.

Thank you, will see if I can pick some up!

 

[ycbm]

According to the OP he’s going a few doors away to visit a bitch in heat. He shouldn’t but I couldn’t get that riled up about it that I’d contact the dog warden and hope the dog got taken away.

It seems to be your view that anyone with a bitch on heat has to lock it away from contact with any entire dog. It's that view which gets bitches locked in a shed for weeks, which happened on one of the farms I used to live near.

Added to your view that it's perfectly OK for anyone to open their door and let their dog roam and in spite of the fact that's now a criminal offence, that the dog warden shouldn't be involved.

I think you need to move into the 21st century.

 

[Jenko109]

It seems to be your view that anyone with a bitch on heat has to lock it away from contact with any entire dog. It's that view which gets bitches locked in a shed for weeks, which happened on one of the farms I used to live near.

Added to your view that it's perfectly OK for anyone to open their door and let their dog roam and in spite of the fact that's now a criminal offence, that the dog warden shouldn't be involved.

I think you need to move into the 21st century.

This comment wins.

 

[MurphysMinder]

It seems to be your view that anyone with a bitch on heat has to lock it away from contact with any entire dog. It's that view which gets bitches locked in a shed for weeks, which happened on one of the farms I used to live near.

Added to your view that it's perfectly OK for anyone to open their door and let their dog roam and in spite of the fact that's now a criminal offence, that the dog warden shouldn't be involved.

I think you need to move into the 21st centur.

It seems to be your view that anyone with a bitch on heat has to lock it away from contact with any entire dog. It's that view which gets bitches locked in a shed for weeks, which happened on one of the farms I used to live near.

Added to your view that it's perfectly OK for anyone to open their door and let their dog roam and in spite of the fact that's now a criminal offence, that the dog warden shouldn't be involved.

I think you need to move into the 21st century.

Yep, exactly this. Dogs should be under control at all times, OBAC has her dog under control, the other owner doesn't , that is the issue here. Bitches in season take part in breed shows all the time, where there are dogs who are used at stud so know what it is all about. Recently it has been decided to allow bitches in heat to compete in certain agility competitions, which has caused quite a bit of discussion but when it comes down to it we are back to that magic word "control".
If a dog is continuously escaping, even if not far from home, it is often the wake up call the owner needs to have to pay to get it back from the dog warden so if this dog continues to get out I would definitely be contacting them.

 

[Clodagh]

With hound shows the dogs are shown first so there isn’t bitch scent in the ring. Is ‘other’ showing the same @MurphysMinder ?
Agility is a challenge as they are off lead. I wouldn’t work my bitches when they are hot as I would think it’s not fair on the dogs.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Your dog is on a lead and under control and theirs is not. You are not in the wrong, they are.

^^^ This. Key fact is that YOUR dog is on the lead. Theirs is "escaping".

If you can't resolve this by having a stern chat with the neighbour then I would advise you go to the Dog Warden and report it. No-one's dog - it matters not whether it is Entire or not!! - is permitted to be out on the public highway without (a) the owner being with it and also (b) being on the lead and under control.

 

[MurphysMinder]

With hound shows the dogs are shown first so there isn’t bitch scent in the ring. Is ‘other’ showing the same @MurphysMinder ?
Agility is a challenge as they are off lead. I wouldn’t work my bitches when they are hot as I would think it’s not fair on the dogs.

In breed showing the dogs and bitches are often shown in separate rings, but obviously dogs are mixing outside the ring. In IGP I think bitches in season work at the end, and it is the same in agility, though at the moment it is only in major competitions that bitches in season are allowed. It is new for agility and I don't think everyone is happy with it, I know my old heeler would be distracted , and he has been castrated for nearly 11 year

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's no way your fault and I would be paying them a visit their behaviour is totally irresponsible.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Even if you took my in heat dog out of the equation the other owner is still doing something wrong?

This hopefully won’t happen again as she is getting spayed 3 months from now.
So I don’t walk my dog for 3 weeks?

I did say that the other dog should not be loose, so his owners are in the wrong.

I personally wouldn't walk an in season bitch in public. My bitches have all been spayed, so once their first season was done and they had the op it wasn't a problem. I'm sure I'll get shot down for that, but that is what I do.

It is naive to expect all other owners to control their dogs, it just doesn't happen.

The late JRT became a sex crazed obsessive when the labs that used to live opposite came in season, even though they were confined. He became a determined escape artist and climbed his way out of our garden even when we reinforced the fencing everywhere. Had to install an inner run of electrified poultry netting in the end to keep him in.

 

[Rokele55]

Crikey, if I took my bitch to any sort of event whilst in season I would be (quite rightly) villified by the dog owners attending.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Whilst discretion should be used when walking bitches in season (I go very early or late at night or drive her somewhere else) or at large events, they're in the wrong for letting their dog stray, it's a straying issue, not a bitch in season issue IMO. Control is control.

In IGP sport you just do official training/compete the in season females at the end after all the other dogs have gone. Which can make it uncomfortable for the people who are sitting with the most points before that a bitch in season won the world championships in 2017.

 

[blackcob]

In breed showing the dogs and bitches are often shown in separate rings, but obviously dogs are mixing outside the ring. In IGP I think bitches in season work at the end, and it is the same in agility, though at the moment it is only in major competitions that bitches in season are allowed. It is new for agility and I don't think everyone is happy with it, I know my old heeler would be distracted , and he has been castrated for nearly 11 year

Happened at Crufts this year for the first time I’ve seen although I can’t understand why the bitch didn’t get special dispensation to go last, they sat her on a mat at the start but the next dog to go was an entire male and you could see him sniffing on the start line.

 

[stormox]

Dogs will be dogs! No one's in the 'wrong' ...... both choose to have entire dogs, both humans need to put up and deal with the consequences.

 

[NinjaPony]

Honestly some of the attitudes on here explain why there are so many out of control dogs. You choose to have a dog, then you better take responsibility for it. Perhaps I’m sensitive to this but after my dog was nearly killed by an out of control off lead dog, I have no tolerance for it. Why should the rest of us have to put up with it? Its the worst part of owning a dog, dealing with other people who won’t take any responsibility.

 

[Clodagh]

Dogs will be dogs! No one's in the 'wrong' ...... both choose to have entire dogs, both humans need to put up and deal with the consequences.

i really hope you don’t have a dog!

 

[Caol Ila]

I personally wouldn't walk an in season bitch in public. My bitches have all been spayed, so once their first season was done and they had the op it wasn't a problem. I'm sure I'll get shot down for that, but that is what I do.

So if you lived in the middle of a city and only had access to public space, would you just not walk your bitch for however many weeks she is in season?

 

[Goldenstar]

Planning for idiots is a part of the sensible owner life .
From getting dogs used to children when you don’t have any to walking bitches in heat at the crack of dawn and in late evening ( but that’s a bit dodge in my experience) you have plan around idiots you should have too but you do .

 

[AmyMay]

Dogs will be dogs! No one's in the 'wrong' ...... both choose to have entire dogs, both humans need to put up and deal with the consequences.

Another who fails to understand the original post

 

[stormox]

Another who fails to understand the original post

Of course I understand it. Both dogs are entire and both will do what they can to get to the opposite sex. This post isn't about a wandering dog, it's about the strong desire to mate.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Well if anything it's been an interesting debate. It sounds dramatic but it seems victim blaming doesn't just stop with human females but poor dogs too.

I've been meaning to have her spayed (I wanted her to have a few first) but busy life meant it got pushed back but this experience and some of the attitudes on here have pushed me to make the appointment.

Interesting re showing. I can see both sides, it seems a shame and a disadvantage to entire bitch owners for them to miss out if bad timing means they are in season, but can completely see that it could create a disadvantage for the dogs to have that scent around.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

Of course I understand it. Both dogs are entire and both will do what they can to get to the opposite sex. This post isn't about a wandering dog, it's about the strong desire to mate.

I'm not sure you do. In this specific scenario yes both dogs are entire but one is on a lead and in control. The other has got out of a door left open (and not for the first time this week let alone ever) and run down the street to my dog. This isn't about a strong desire to mate, as I've said before tbh my dog being in season isn't actually really relevant. It's about an owner having absolutely no control of their dog and being a bit of an idiot. He gets out regularly, not just when my dog is in season.

If I'd posted instead about a wandering dog getting on to the field behind our house where there are lambs and worrying them, or attacking a child, or running into the road and causing an accident/getting killed I'm sure no one would be so blasé about a dog being loose.

 

[stormox]

That's people I'm afraid - a lot of them are irresponsible idiots.

 

[CorvusCorax]

As the owner of two, large, entire, dominant working males who have a strong prey drive and have been used at stud and live alongside an entire female, I can heartily recommend investing in some good fencing/a secure dog run and training your bloody dog

 

[cauda equina]

So there's nothing wrong about being an irresponsible idiot then?

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

As the owner of two, large, entire, dominant working males who have been used at stud and live alongside an entire female, can I heartily recommend investing in some good fencing/a secure dog run and training your bloody dog...

It's army housing so their fencing is exactly the same as ours. The house is exactly the same as ours. But you can have the most secure fencing in the world until you leave the gate open they have a small toddler too. The thought of the child getting out the often open front door makes me feel sick!

When we gave them their dog back earlier in the week we had to go half way into their house shouting before we found them and they had absolutely no idea their dog had gone. He was with us for at least 5 mins and we only found him in our front garden because we were going out so god knows how long he'd actually been out.