Who is responsible?

[Green Bean]

Just looking experience on this please. My horse and her field friend jumped over an electric fence separating them from two others to get to the neighbouring two horses. This is the third time this has happened. Today my horse and another had a standoff resulting in serious injury to my horse, she is currently being operated on in Newbury at the hospital. I can’t blame the horse in the other field but feel the owners of the yard need to be responsible as this was not the first time they had gotten into the neighbouring paddock. More should have been done, ie put them in separate paddocks which are available with proper fencing. I am now facing a vet bill of £4K which insurance won’t cover as I have maxed that out with her back. Any thoughts welcome. Please be kind, I am not in the best way at the moment

 

[ForeverBroke_]

I'm not too sure on how your insurance works, but FWIW mine has a £5k total PER injury/incident..so being as this was an accident/injury I'd hope it would be covered?

Might be worth a chat with them to clarify. Nothing else to add I'm afraid but I hope she has a speedy recovery xx

 

[AmyMay]

Difficult one, as you continued to turn your horse out, despite knowing the fencing was inadequate. Presumably your horse will not be returning to the yard, so you could either use legal aid through your insurance company to chase for damages, or go through the small claims court if you feel you can show negligence in the case of the YO.

 

[doodle]

Insurance is usually per incident so they should pay out.

but your horse got out before and you continued to turn out in the same manner, so think you should be expecting to take some of the responsibility.

 

[ihatework]

I’m sorry about your horse, I hope she makes a recovery.

Do check your insurance as most are per incident, so this will likely be a new claim.

I do think as owners, we have to take some responsibility for how and where we keep our horses. If a yard offers plastic post and rail, you choose to accept that, you see your horse getting in with others and yet don’t change the set up, then I’m in the camp of not YO fault. A horrible horsey accident.

BTW I’ve had a horse injured (although not to the extent of yours) from electric post and tape fencing proving inadequate.

 

[milliepops]

I'm not too sure on how your insurance works, but FWIW mine has a £5k total PER injury/incident..so being as this was an accident/injury I'd hope it would be covered?

Might be worth a chat with them to clarify. Nothing else to add I'm afraid but I hope she has a speedy recovery xx

agreed, presumably this new incident is not related to the previous claim so I would anticipate that it will be covered.

not sure about the rest, think we need more details about your yard but tbh as it's happened before I think it could be a bit more complicated, as you've known it's a possibility, and also it's your horse that escaped rather than the other horse getting into your paddock.

 

[ITPersonnage]

Really sorry to hear about your horse's injuries, I hope she makes a full recovery and that this is resolved amicably. I've got to admit when my mare damaged herself on electric fence I didn't turn her out again till I'd rectified it, sorry if that seems unhelpful or uncaring.

 

[dorsetladette]

Oh OP I really feel for you. A few years ago I had a run of bad luck and was in your shoes then very quickly ended up in the opposite position when mine other one kicked some else (honestly questioned why I had them).

I would check your insurance as many are worded 'per claim' so this incident would be classed as a new claim.

I'm not sure where you would stand with the responsibility part as I think most animals are turned out 'at owners risk' that said if the YO knew there was an issue I would of expected them to have done something proactive to resolve the issue.

Hope your horse recovers well/quickly and doesn't empty the savings account to much.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sorry to hear about this, I hope that your horse is OK, and that the insurance covers the costs.

What sort of electric fence was it? How tall were the posts, how many strands of string/tape/rope did it have and was it adequately energised?

 

[LegOn]

Really sorry to hear about your horse, and really sorry you are going through this.

When it happened before did you have a discussion with your yard about fixing or changing the situation and they just werent open to it? I do think unfortunately horses will be horses and sometimes do stupid things to themselves and get injured and even if your YO re-fenced or changed the situation it still might have happened. Unless it was downright negligent like no electricity or bared wire or something... I think horses will always get themselves into mischief even in the safest of places

 

[Green Bean]

Thanks everyone, she is on five day livery so is put out by yo staff. I could kick myself as I wanted to speak to her this weekend but chickened out as I didn’t want to cause a fuss. I really regret it now. I will look into the insurance side, but am only insured to £1,200 due to the cost and my horse not being a sickly soul. The fence is 2 strand about 1.4m max

 

[MyBoyChe]

In this case I would think that the yard should be taking some responsibilty, assuming that a) they maintain the fencing and it isnt something you have constructed yourself and b) they were aware of the previous incident and continued to turn her out at their behest, rather than because you have insisted. Im not a YO but I think if I were and this had happened before, I would have either advised owner that their horse could not be turned out as my fencing wasnt adequate for their animal or if possible, moved horse into a paddock with more permanent fencing which may have acted as a deterrent from its antics

 

[IrishMilo]

Think this one is 50/50. The yard made you aware of what was happening by the sounds of it but you continued to have the horse turned out. My horse is a jumper... field and stables. When he jumped out the stable I asked for one with a taller door, and then when he jumped out the field I asked for him to be moved to somewhere he wouldn't be injured should he do it again. IMO at the end of the day he's my horse so the onus is on me to make sure the right precautions are being made. IF you have an accommodating yard that's a bonus.

 

[fusspot]

Really sorry to hear about your horse and hope it makes a full recovery. The insurance as others have said should be per incident especially as it happened in the field.

As a yard owner I have to say that I don’t think you will get the yard owner to pay out.You say that the horse has done it previously.The horses obviously have no regard for the electric fence and you have continued to turn out the same way after the horse has done it previously.Its also not as if yours has had a horse jump into its field...it’s yours that has done it a few times and sadly met it’s match.

I had one that whatever we tried even with electric fencing and very good grass, it was fine for a few days,but would then jump out of its field...one day it jumped from the lovely field into the arena and was happily standing eating the trees.
I had to speak to the owner as it did on one occasion get in with my sons pony and luckily neither was hurt, but apart from also wrecking fencing I was concerned about the horse hurting itself.That horse didn’t go out.

Yours will now more than likely be on a period of box rest to recover but really think you will have to work out whether that is the yard for you and may need to look for somewhere else with different turnout as next time sadly it could be you receiving a very large vets bill for yours jumping in and badly injuring somebody elses’s.Please don’t think I am being harsh,it’s just being honest. Fingers crossed yours comes through the op ok.

 

[PeterNatt]

I hope that your horse makes a full recovery.
The owners of the yard have a 'Duty of Care' and should have insurance cover.
Electric fencing between adjoining paddocks occupied by horses is unacceptable as they can kick through the fence line and injure each other.
The only safe fencing is 'Post and (3) Rail wooden Fencing' with Equi-Fencing on it so that the horses can not kick through the fence line.

 

[ycbm]

I'm very sorry your horse has been injured GB but jumping out of fields is just what horses do, and yours was the one that jumped. She didn't go through the fence, she jumped it, and it was a decent height, so she likely would have jumped anything no matter what it was made of.

She had done it before with no harm coming to anyone, so there was little obvious reason for them to change anything to stop it happening again. It was just an irritation, not dangerous, unless they knew that the other horse had a history of aggression.

I'm quite surprised anyone thinks the yard has a liability here, but you can always try claiming off their insurance.

You will obviously need somewhere else lined up for her to go when she gets out of hospital if you intend to ask them to pay the vet bill. I hope she makes a speedy recovery.
.

 

[ihatework]

I hope that your horse makes a full recovery.
The owners of the yard have a 'Duty of Care' and should have insurance cover.
Electric fencing between adjoining paddocks occupied by horses is unacceptable as they can kick through the fence line and injure each other.
The only safe fencing is 'Post and (3) Rail wooden Fencing' with Equi-Fencing on it so that the horses can not kick through the fence line.

Until the horse skids into it and stakes itself on a broken post. Or tries to jump it, doesn’t make the height, turns over and breaks neck on impact. Both of which I’ve seen.

Honestly these posts aren’t helpful. Horses injure themselves in all sorts of ways. I do think plastic posts and tape are less than ideal but they are a widely accepted fencing in many equine circles.

 

[Red-1]

I hope your horse recovers, I do think it will be a separate claim.

When you say your horse is insured for £1,200, I presume that is her quoted value. Usually the vets over is higher than that. I would double check with the insurance company.

It sounds like the yard has provided what would, for most horses, be adequate fencing. I'm afraid that, as the owner, you new that your horse has previously jumped out, yet continued to turn the horse out. To me that makes it your deal. As an owner you appraise the facilities and chose to use them, or not.

I do think the yard could be responsible for any injury to the other horse. If they haven't told the owners about the previous incident then I think that would breach a duty of care. I wouldn't stir that one though, if I were you, as I also think you could be responsible for any injuries to their horses. Even a small injury can go to several hundred pounds with dressings and antibiotics.

After box rest, I would move the home to somewhere with turnout that suits your particular horse better. Either that, or ask the yard of you can erect better fencing.

 

[ycbm]

Until the horse skids into it and stakes itself on a broken post. Or tries to jump it, doesn’t make the height, turns over and breaks neck on impact. Both of which I’ve seen.

Honestly these posts aren’t helpful. Horses injure themselves in all sorts of ways. I do think plastic posts and tape are less than ideal but they are a widely accepted fencing in many equine circles.

I'm glad you wrote that, I completely agree.
.

 

[Winters100]

I am so sorry about your horse - what an awful situation.

I had similar with a horse who injured himself on a fence some years ago. I totally take responsibility for it. He had been turned out in the paddock that I had seen, I did not expect an accident and I had not made any comments about the fencing. If they had placed your horse there against your instructions I could see that they would be liable, but I'm afraid that in this case I don't think they did anything wrong. If the accident had been foreseeable then I suppose you would have asked for the horse to be turned out elsewhere. Really good luck for his recovery and sorry if this opinion is disappointing.

 

[TwyfordM]

My mare fractured several vertebrae when a field gate between her and a group of geldings and a colt ended up being left open by some of the kids helping on the yard (it's a riding school)
Yes, probably their responsibility, i left my mare in a secure field. I ended up nearly loosing her and a large vets bill. Probably could have claimed but I didn't as on paper, this was a group she was previously turned out with no problems and also no proof it was yards fault, could have been walkers, horse barging gate open etc. Chalked it up to horses will be horses, don't hold a grudge, still on the same yard too

 

[doodle]

My horse fatally injured himself on fencing at a livery yard. It was not the yards fault. He was being silly. I wouldn’t have expected them to pay. I then took new horse to a different yard and found out their fencing was worse. Instead of take the risk I moved back to first yard.
I think also as owner of the horse who’s field your horse jumped into I would be pretty upset too.

 

[Chianti]

I would have hoped that as soon as my horse jumped into an adjoining paddock the YO would at least have tried to make changes to the fencing. We had this happen at my current yard and the YO eventually put in another line of electric fencing to make the space between the fields wider. It stopped the horses jumping out. I do sympathize with you not wanting to speak to the YO to discuss the situation - I've been in that situation many times.

 

[sharni]

Soory about your horses injuries ,hope the insurance pays out. are you a BHS member, if so i'd give them a call they may be able to help with who is reponsible.

 

[chocolategirl]

Just looking experience on this please. My horse and her field friend jumped over an electric fence separating them from two others to get to the neighbouring two horses. This is the third time this has happened. Today my horse and another had a standoff resulting in serious injury to my horse, she is currently being operated on in Newbury at the hospital. I can’t blame the horse in the other field but feel the owners of the yard need to be responsible as this was not the first time they had gotten into the neighbouring paddock. More should have been done, ie put them in separate paddocks which are available with proper fencing. I am now facing a vet bill of £4K which insurance won’t cover as I have maxed that out with her back. Any thoughts welcome. Please be kind, I am not in the best way at the moment

As a YO, in our defence, there is only so much that one can do to stop horses jumping out of fields. I had one years ago that no matter how tall, how wide etc, the sod still managed it! I’ve got one at the moment that just hops out on occasion when he thinks there’s more grass to be had on the other side. I’ve done as much as I can, if it happens again, I will be explaining to the owner there’s no more I can do, the choice to turn him back out, is then hers. Out of 25, I guess I’m lucky I’ve only got one?‍ As your horse had already jumped out twice, you must have known there was an excellent chance it would happen again? did you ask the YO to try and improve the fencing? Like someone else said, regardless, you made the choice to continue to turn out in a paddock you knew your horse was likely to jump out of again. I’m really sorry your horse was injured, that’s very upsetting, but I’m not really sure you would get anywhere with trying to claim against the YO, but I guess if you’re not bothered about being asked to leave, I’d say go for it ?‍ Good luck and I hope your horse makes a full recovery ??

 

[[131452]]

Thanks everyone, she is on five day livery so is put out by yo staff. I could kick myself as I wanted to speak to her this weekend but chickened out as I didn’t want to cause a fuss. I really regret it now. I will look into the insurance side, but am only insured to £1,200 due to the cost and my horse not being a sickly soul. The fence is 2 strand about 1.4m max

If you pay for livery services then a part of that is the yard providing safe and suitable fencing. If the horse has escaped before you could argue that the fencing isn't safe or suitable. There should definitely be some liability on the yard but this is just my opinion.

 

[IrishMilo]

Until the horse skids into it and stakes itself on a broken post. Or tries to jump it, doesn’t make the height, turns over and breaks neck on impact. Both of which I’ve seen.

Lady at one of my old livery yards had a TB who ran through the post and rail and staked herself right through the heart.

 

[IrishMilo]

If you pay for livery services then a part of that is the yard providing safe and suitable fencing. If the horse has escaped before you could argue that the fencing isn't safe or suitable. There should definitely be some liability on the yard but this is just my opinion.

Maybe the fencing is safe though. I think it’s clutching at straws to say it’s not suitable if you have a yard full of horses who respect it and then one or two who are hoppers. I mean what is the solution there? Re-do a yard’s worth of fencing at the YO’s cost for the sake of one horse?

 

[Fred66]

I’ve watched a horse where we were keeping ours pop round over 5 hedges and a post and rail smallest of which was 5 foot before putting itself back in its original paddock. It was its little party trick!!
Also seen a 13.2 get turned out onto a new yard in sectioned off grazing to allow it to get to know the others before being turned out with them. The fencing was 5ft as they knew he could be a bit of a Houdini. He took a look at the other horses in the bigger field, walked up to the fence, looked at it, trotted back, turned and with 3 strides popped over it with room to spare. Unfortunately it can be difficult to keep them in if they don’t want to be!!
Hope yours makes a full recovery

 

[The unicorn]

I pretty sure that nobody is responsible for this incident since you’re horse has jumped the fence for the second time. You still used that field nowing that the horse can get out, since the horse jumped it and didn’t go through it than I pretty sure the yard is not responsible. This thread also highlights the importance of knowing what you’re insurance covers before going through with the surgery. Sorry op but you will have to fork the bill . I wish you horse a speedy recovery.