Who trims their own horses feet?

Oberon said:
I speak for myself and my horses only.

I don't need anyones approval or to have credibility.

My horses and I are happy.

And please don't become aggressive - it is not neccessary.
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Not being aggresive at all, just that i thought your statement was pathetic. As in feeble, silly, ridiculous, etc. It wasnt helpful to the discussion and rather pointless. Posters like mrdarcy are at least contributing valuable thoughts to the thread, not just saying go find information yourself, which isnt constructive. People are posting asking for info and wanting to learn!

mrdarcy- anything that has shown the outcomes of barefoot vs shod in a specific situation, or the effect of barefoot on things such as kinetics, kinematics, pressure distribution, limb loading, joint angles, perfusion, etc, or the application of trimming for treatment of injury and disease.
 
Why don't you go on to the UKNHCP forum and introduce yourself, ask what you need to ask, and give background to why you need the information.

They're a really nice bunch and will help you out.

And that won't cost you anything. ;)
 
teddyt - I also have a few opinions about your tone and posts but out of respect I haven't posted them.

I wasn't aware I had to adjust my posts on a (public forum and in my own time) to suit your requirements. Free speech allows me to write what I please, whether you care for it or not.

And if people really want to learn, HHO isn't really the place to find scientific evidence so sitting here and demanding other members spoon feed links is lazy IMO.
 
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Oberon, you are obviously taking the written word wrongly, as can happen. But believe me you are taking me all wrong. Myself and others have asked for evidence to clarify the opinions of trimmers. Mrdarcy has been very helpful and she has pm'd me some more information on specifics i.e. expanding on her claims and suggestions. The genuine reason for asking for references has already been explained, so i wont do it again as you obviously wont get it. So if im lazy for asking people to provide references from their own subject area to support their opinions and clarify things for me then so be it. I'd rather be lazy than gullible. And good teachers help their pupils, they dont just say get on to google, im not helping you as that makes you lazy!

You dont have to adjust what you say at all. And neither do i. You said what you thought and so did i! No difference.
 
Yes I do BUT I have no choice but to trim my little section a's feet after a so called farrier killed his trust in others but I would do my otheres all the time they are fine with a farrier.
 
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i really dont have time to read all previous posts, and neither side will ever change their mind anyway.....i trim my shetlands feet, after my trimmer gave me several lessons, he grows excellent,even, naturally balanced feet that self trim to a certain degree and only need help from me every 8 weeks or so.iv been doing this for over 2 years and his feet look fab and he is sound as a pound!

my 2 big horses are trimmed by the trimmer as my bad back wont allow me to do them as they are so much heavier, but TBH i would want her to do my TB anyway,even if my back way fine, as he toes out slightly and needs more balancing work than mums horse, who again grows even balanced feet.
 
Again seeing as I can't edit my post any more (sorry)

Yes I do BUT I have no choice but to trim my little section a's feet after a so called farrier killed his trust in others but I wouldn't do my other's all the time they are fine with a farrier.
 
Thanks BruceA and others who have tried to find out what information teddyt, ester, lillith, and others including me are looking for.
Personally, I don't want anecdotal evidence, opinions such as you would find in a book or article. I'd like published studies; controlled trials, with transparent data collection methods, reduction of other factors, and sufficiently large sample sizes to allow conclusions to be drawn.
I have access to publications online, so can easily look them up if anyone is game to provide me with such references?
Thanks in advance
S :D
 
As with Shilasdair, I too have access to sciencedirect, elsevier and other online journal resources, Lancet etc., and would be very interested.

I've just been searching via a metalib portal, and have found the following article. I haven't read it yet, so don;t know how useful it may be, as I haven't got my Athens log in to hand.

Eliashar.E, 2007. Veterinary Clinics of North America: Equine Practice, Volume 23, Issue 2, PP425-442. "An evidence-based assessment of the Biomechanical Effects of the Common Shoeing and Farriery Techniques"

Accessed at http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...d=122871&md5=6fdb3a7f18af7ceaa330ebfb6c6cdc2a (19/04/2010)
 
I can, but I'll have to type them in by hand becuase they are all in hardcopy print in books!

I think the real problem is that - if you are looking for "articles that show that the barefoot approach works best for resolving a particular problem" then you are on a difficult search - this stuff is all in its relatively early days.

The question "will the non-shoeing, natural approach with dietary and environment changes yield a better overall result and return to a useful working life for horses with this or that condition, than conventional shoeing and fariery based techniques?" is - as far as I can see - a relatively new question and it is going to be some years before any real ground breaking studies are published.

The emphasis appears to have been very much on therapeutic shoeing techniques - and comparisons of the advantages/drawbacks between these techniques rather than looking at the non-surgical, non-intervention alternatives.

For example there ia a very good paper on Navicular that I found very useful " Royal Veterinary College, FAEMS, University of London , Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Clinical Veterinary Sciences, University of Helsinki
NAVICULAR DISEASE: BIOCHEMICAL STUDIES OF SYNOVIAL FLUIDS
AND TISSUES INVOLVED." ISBN 952-91-6138-7. It is a good illustration of the difficulty because it covers a number of therapeutic shoeing options, and discusses the drawbacks of them and the balance between short term relief and long term greater damage - basically comes to the conclusion that there is no clear "solution" and there are pros and cons of each - but it does not ask the question "what about the non shoeing approach?"

Some of that research is just getting underway now, as folks such as Nic Barker of Rockley farm are engaged in projects such as Project Dexter in collaboration with vet Jeremy Hyde, at Eqwest Veterinary Hospital and Professor Peter Clegg at the University of Liverpool - looking into navicular syndrome and whether the "natural" approach yields better results than the "traditional" therapeutic shoeing approaches - this is valuable research with a possibility of proving that here are valid therapy options for these horses -

BUT there is a HUGE challenge in getting representative samples and driving horses through these programs, getting owners to invest and cooperate, obtaining funding, and simply comparing like with like.

Sometimes statistics can prove a case, sometimes it just has to be observational and simply value judgement on small samples because that's the very best that you're going to get.

There is a good discussion on the implications of therapeutic shoeing and laminitis here ISSN 0065–7182 by Stephen E. O’Grady, BVSc, MRCVS; and
Andrew H. Parks, VetMB, Diplomate ACVS - it's an AEPP paper. Again, while it does not compare barefoot approaches with therapeutic shoeing - it offers an analysis of the loading of the foot with shoes and without on a confromat surface and discussion of the implications of each approach.

I've spent many hours reading these papers and in the end of the day, I don't think I'd put shoes on my horses again. But now that decision is made on an informed and well read basis, rather than influenced by what could be seen as competing schools.
 
i have a fully qulified and trained farrier to trim mine! i wouldnt trim my own, i dont service my own car or replace the tyres on it either! i dont do my own electrics or plumbing! a trained professional is as described! i also have to pay a solicitor as i dont know legal law etc etc etc etc etc etc.................. and the old age saying no foot no horse is so true.
 
brucea said:
I can, but I'll have to type them in by hand becuase they are all in hardcopy print in books!

I think the real problem is that - if you are looking for "articles that show that the barefoot approach works best for resolving a particular problem" then you are on a difficult search - this stuff is all in its relatively early days.

The question "will the non-shoeing, natural approach with dietary and environment changes yield a better overall result and return to a useful working life for horses with this or that condition, than conventional shoeing and fariery based techniques?" is - as far as I can see - a relatively new question and it is going to be some years before any real ground breaking studies are published.

The emphasis appears to have been very much on therapeutic shoeing techniques - and comparisons of the advantages/drawbacks between these techniques rather than looking at the non-surgical, non-intervention alternatives.

For example there ia a very good paper on Navicular that I found very useful " Royal Veterinary College, FAEMS, University of London , Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Clinical Veterinary Sciences, University of Helsinki
NAVICULAR DISEASE: BIOCHEMICAL STUDIES OF SYNOVIAL FLUIDS
AND TISSUES INVOLVED." ISBN 952-91-6138-7. It is a good illustration of the difficulty because it covers a number of therapeutic shoeing options, and discusses the drawbacks of them and the balance between short term relief and long term greater damage - basically comes to the conclusion that there is no clear "solution" and there are pros and cons of each - but it does not ask the question "what about the non shoeing approach?"

Some of that research is just getting underway now, as folks such as Nic Barker of Rockley farm are engaged in projects such as Project Dexter in collaboration with vet Jeremy Hyde, at Eqwest Veterinary Hospital and Professor Peter Clegg at the University of Liverpool - looking into navicular syndrome and whether the "natural" approach yields better results than the "traditional" therapeutic shoeing approaches - this is valuable research with a possibility of proving that here are valid therapy options for these horses -

BUT there is a HUGE challenge in getting representative samples and driving horses through these programs, getting owners to invest and cooperate, obtaining funding, and simply comparing like with like.

Sometimes statistics can prove a case, sometimes it just has to be observational and simply value judgement on small samples because that's the very best that you're going to get.

There is a good discussion on the implications of therapeutic shoeing and laminitis here ISSN 0065–7182 by Stephen E. O’Grady, BVSc, MRCVS; and
Andrew H. Parks, VetMB, Diplomate ACVS - it's an AEPP paper. Again, while it does not compare barefoot approaches with therapeutic shoeing - it offers an analysis of the loading of the foot with shoes and without on a confromat surface and discussion of the implications of each approach.

I've spent many hours reading these papers and in the end of the day, I don't think I'd put shoes on my horses again. But now that decision is made on an informed and well read basis, rather than influenced by what could be seen as competing schools.
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It's so nice to get a polite answer to my requests for more information - thanks again Brucea. I'm interested in any studies at all, I like reading equine science stuff (sad, I know).
I'll have a look for the ones you refer to, and do a bit of a search, maybe with quite wide terms, to see what I can find this weekend. If I find anything interesting (either in support of 'barefoot' or shoeing) I'll give you the refs.
I think people become unnecessarily divided into factions on this issue - the fanatical 'all shoes are evil' attitude against the 'all horses must be shod to work' attitude. In reality, there's a continuum, and people's decisions are often based on practicalities.
For example, I've got three horses - one has feet like granite, and according to my own (traditional) farriers, should never need shod, one has ok feet and may be able to work unshod depending on the amount of roadwork etc (I am talking without boots). The third is a Tb, and can't walk without a shoe on. She's 21, and has never had soundness problems unless she's unshod, in which case she feels every little stone.
Now I can tell her as often as I like that wild horses' feet are just fine unshod, but genetically she has been selected for her ability to run fast over manicured turf, over hundreds of years, to the detriment of her hoof quality.
S :D
 
I think you have hit the nail on the head there Shils - it's the polarisation of opinions that seems to be the problem.

The polarisation's not really there, but most posters seem to think it is, and it comes across as a them and us situation.

In the organisation I'm with (UKNHCP) there are both trimmers and farriers - and the farriers are a real fantastic resource for us - you actually won't find a "shoes are evil" mentality.

What you will find is the approach that says "we would rather understand why it is that our horses can't manage without shoes, and solve that underlying problem, because it is better in the long term for the horse to have bare feet"

There is a balanced approach that recognises where shoes are required, and that there is a compromise between the ideal situation (natural feet) and where the horse actually is (like your TB), and that here are times when the only thing that allows the horse to cope in its current environment are the effects of the shoes - and that implies some counter intuitive thinking to accept.

The experience of many in the barefoot community is that there are conditions where we're finding that a more natural, non shoeing based approach is often more successful (e.g. Navicular, laminitis) for purely mechanical reasons, or because taking the barefoot approach means that underlying contributing issues are addressed rather than just look at the symptoms and try to fix them - a more systemic approach.

What is challenging, and I have been through it three times now, is where folks give you a hard time because a transitioning horse is tender footed for a period and this is perceived as "cruel, because he was fine in shoes". Actually, in all three cases my guys were not really fine in shoes, there were significant underlying problems, and once we understood and addressed them, they are all doing very well barefoot - especially the laminitic ones.

Most of the folk I know who are in the barefoot organisation are all actually rather sad in some ways, becuase we spend waaaayyyy too much time reading papers about hoof problems!! :D
 
Brucea, perhaps you could explain the terminology 'barefoot' to me, as it seems to be ambiguous.

I had assumed it to mean horses working with bare hooves - ie, no hoof protection. Does it also extend to horses requiring boots and glue ons in order to work (albeit with no hoof protection in the field)?

I think this matters, where there are claims on this forum relating to horses 'barefoot' achievements, to understand whether these were actually undertaken with unprotected hooves - it would help guage a realistic assessment of what can be achieved when horses don't wear traditional shoes.

Like other posters, I have no hoof to grind. Not all my horses are shod and I possess a pair of Old Macs;)
 
It is ambiguous really.

Barefoot for me means without shoes - using boots or wraps etc. as needed for the individual horse, in my book is all in the "barefoot" category. Whatever lets the horse spend the largest part of it's life with feet directly on the ground!

It may mean different things to other people.

Boots and glue ons are great - they give protection when needed, but allow the horse to have nothing on their hooves most of the time.

But even boots and glue ons are a compromise and affect the way the horse moves and lands - the ideal is to have hooves the way they came with the horse.

Honestly, I just couldn't have transitioned two of mine to having excellent bare feet without having the boots to help them along - and I keep them handy for very long rides where I think they need some protection on very rough ground. Never use them these days, but they are there in case we need them.
 
Interesting post.....although i do find that these posts just go on and on and on....! Unfortunately we are all entitled to our opinions and i think in the majority of cases, no amount of scientific research/hearsay/other's stories will change our own opinions if we are trying to look for excuses not to. I am very much a believer in barefoot, and if someone produced a scientific paper on how barefoot is bad and shoeing is good, i'm sorry, but i would want more evidence and would not believe it, because at the end of the day, barefoot is what i believe in and believe is best for the horse.

On a completely different, light hearted note.... :( is mrdarcy really a woman - i was imagining a tall dark handsome barefoot trimmer, brandishing his rasp!! hahaha...!
 
That is a helpful answer - it is useful to know the term 'barefoot' is ambiguous. So when someone states 'barefoot horses can do this/that/the other' it doesn't necessarily mean any of this is can be achieved without hoof protection.

I think some barefoot proponents make unrealistic claims, but it would appear this may be due to the ways the term 'barefoot' is used and interpreted.

That is something those of a scientific bent seeking research on the subject need to be aware of, I think, which is why I felt it necessary to try and tease out the meaning.
 
Shilasdair/llanali can you look this ref up?

Schweiz Arch Tierheilkd. 2006 Feb;148(2):64-72.

[The art of horseshoeing--between empiricism and science]
[Article in German]

Weishaupt MA, Musterle B, Bertolla R, Wehrli S, Geyer H, Wampfler B, Jordan P, Kummer M, Auer JA, Fürst A.



Abstract
To correctly shoe a horse requires the farriers to have a good working knowledge of postural anomalies and movement patterns, as well as of the different concepts of horseshoeing and to be able to apply the appropriate technique to every individual horse they shoe. The correct technique for specific problem cases is frequently a subject of debate amongst specialists and many theories would benefit from objective gait analyses. The case study presented examines the influence of different shoeing conditions on selected gait analysis parameters. The measurements were conducted on a Warmblood mare: (A) shod with long toes, (B) properly trimmed without shoes, (C) conventionally shod with rolled toes and finally (D) shod using the 4-point technique. Data on force-, time- and distance parameters were recorded using an instrumented treadmill. First contact and breakover of the hooves were documented using high-speed videography. A long toe resulted in a prolongation of the breakover time and, therefore, in a prolongation of the second half of the stance phase. Additionally, the prolonged stance duration associated with an unaltered force impulse, led to decreased force peaks. It was possible to objectively record differences between the trimmed, unshod foot, the shod long-toe and the shod rolled toe configurations. The differences between the rolled toe and the 4 point shoe however, were minimal. Gait analysis is a technique well suited for objective evaluation of different shoeing techniques under standardised conditions.
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So when someone states 'barefoot horses can do this/that/the other' it doesn't necessarily mean any of this is can be achieved without hoof protection.
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Well - that's actually an interesting comment! And if I ever make that statement then you can nail me on it!

It depends on the time of year - My big lad will do huge miles with no hoof protection most of the year - but in the springtime, with that new grass coming through, I'm not sure that I would make the same claim!

But - at least I know exactly what is going on with those feet every month and see directly the effect of the seasonal envoronmental changes on what he is capable of! So, sometimes I do need to boot for longer rides in the spring.
 
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kittykatcat said:
On a completely different, light hearted note.... :( is mrdarcy really a woman - i was imagining a tall dark handsome barefoot trimmer, brandishing his rasp!! hahaha...!
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LOL - sorry to disappoint!

Back to the use of hoof boots - yes it's a compromise but a good compromise. 90% of my training at home is done without boots but I usually use boots to compete in. The horse in question has only been barefoot since September and I don't have access to the ideal environment to keep him in i.e. he's in your bog standard (bog being the operative word until the last couple of weeks) British field. But even using boots to compete in he still spends the vast majority of his life as nature intended. His feet were pretty nasty when I got him and even seven months without shoes has made an amazing difference to their shape and quality. He's a horse who may well be capable of doing 160k without boots but just as it takes around 5 years to get a horse fit enough to do the 100 miles in a day it takes just as long to get the feet fit to do the same thing.

Lots of research would be great but an accurate comparison between a group of shod horses v a group of unshod horses would surely be impossible as there are so many variables. The size of the groups taking part would have to be huge to make it anywhere near useful. And of course research has to be paid for - there is no financial benefit to anyone in funding a study that may show the best way to deal with our horses is to let nature do most of the work.
 
Arabelle said:
That is a helpful answer - it is useful to know the term 'barefoot' is ambiguous. So when someone states 'barefoot horses can do this/that/the other' it doesn't necessarily mean any of this is can be achieved without hoof protection.

I think some barefoot proponents make unrealistic claims, but it would appear this may be due to the ways the term 'barefoot' is used and interpreted.

That is something those of a scientific bent seeking research on the subject need to be aware of, I think, which is why I felt it necessary to try and tease out the meaning.
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The term isn't ambiguous - it's widely accepted that horses using hoof boots are barefoot and horses in shoes are shod. I think your misunderstanding comes from thinking of barefoot as just being about taking shoes off a horse. Barefoot means three things - removal of shoes/correct trim, addressing diet and providing the correct living/working environment. All three things are crucial.
 
Just so no one can call me lazy again ;) ive found some more references for those who asked. If Shils or anyone else is able and willing to look them up. Tbh they werent that hard to find and theyve been around for quite a few years :);)
Equine Vet J Suppl. 2001 Apr;(33):54-7.

In vivo and in vitro heel expansion in relation to shoeing and frog pressure.
Roepstorff L, Johnston C, Drevemo S.

Abstract
The objective of this study was to validate a simple method to measure the mediolateral expansion of the heels and to apply this method in an in vivo experiment. It was also the aim to quantify the mediolateral expansion in different areas of the heel using an in vitro model. In the in vitro study, 5 right and 5 left distal forelimb specimens from 5 Standardbreds were mounted vertically in a custom-made compressive test machine. The heel expansion was measured using optical kinematic analysis and a potentiometer system. Specimens were tested unshod, with frog pressure and with the weightbearing rim raised. In the in vivo study, a potentiometer system was fitted to the left forelimb of 5 Standardbred trotters. Measurements were performed with the horses at hand, in walk and in trot. They were tested unshod, shod with a standard 8 mm iron shoe and finally with a shoe combined with an inflatable hoof-cushion. The results showed a good correlation between the 2 measurement systems (r = 0.98). This study describes the effect of different frog pressures on heel movement. Increased pressure on the frog and the sole increased heel expansion, but some heel expansion still occurred when the frog and sole were unsupported. The study supports, therefore, both the depression and the pressure theory. The significance of these results is the manipulation of heel movement as affected by farrier techniques and its possible relationship to health of the hoof. Further studies are needed to apply this knowledge correctly to farrier practice.
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Equine Vet J Suppl. 1999 Jul;30:245-8.

In vitro transmission and attenuation of impact vibrations in the distal forelimb.
Willemen MA, Jacobs MW, Schamhardt HC.

Abstract
An in vitro model was developed and validated in vivo to quantify the attenuation of impact vibrations, transmitted through the lower equine forelimb and to assess the effects of horseshoeing on this attenuation. The transsected forelimbs of 13 horses were equipped with custom-made hollow bone screws in the 4 distal bones, on each of which a tri-axial accelerometer could be mounted. The limbs were then preloaded while the impact was simulated by dropping a weight on the steel plate on which the hoof was resting. At the hoof wall, the distal, middle and proximal phalanx and at the metacarpal bone, the shock waves resulting from this impact were quantified. To assess the damping effects of shoeing, measurements were performed with unshod hooves, hooves shod with a normal flat shoe and hooves shod with an equisoft pad and a silicone packing between hoof and pad. The in vitro model was validated by performing in vivo measurements using one horse, and subjecting the limb of this horse to the same in vitro measurements after death. Approximately 67% of the damping of impact vibrations took place at the interface between the hoof wall and the distal phalanx. The attenuation of impact vibrations at the distal and proximal interphalangeal joints was considerably less (both 6%), while at the metacarpophalangeal joint 9% of the amplitude of that at the hoof wall was absorbed, leaving approximately 13% of the initial amplitude at the hoof wall detectable at the metacarpus. Compared to unshod hooves the amplitude at the hoof wall is 15% higher in shod hooves. No differences could be observed between shoe types. At the level of the first phalanx and metacarpus the difference between shod and unshod vanished; it was therefore concluded that, although shoeing might influence the amplitude of impact vibrations at the hoof wall, the effect of shoeing on the amplitude at the level of the metacarpophalangeal joint is minimal.

Equine Vet J. 1999 Jan;31(1):25-30.

The effect of orthopaedic shoeing on the force exerted by the deep digital flexor tendon on the navicular bone in horses.
Willemen MA, Savelberg HH, Barneveld A.

Abstract
This study quantifies both the intended effect of orthopaedic shoeing to decrease the load on the navicular bone and the eventual undesired effects on gait performance. The compressive force exerted by the deep digital flexor tendon on the navicular bone and on the quality of the trot and redistribution of forces over the flexor tendons and the suspensory ligament were studied as a function of orthopaedic shoeing in 12 sound Dutch Warmblood horses. A modified CODA-3 gait analysis system and a force plate were used to quantify objectively the load on the lower limb. The quality of the trot was assessed using the same gait analysis system while the horses were trotting on the treadmill. The effects of shoes with heel wedges and egg-bar shoes were compared to flat shoes and unshod feet. When heel wedges were applied, the maximal force on the navicular bone was reduced by 24% (P<0.05) in comparison with flat shoes. Egg-bar shoes did not reduce the force on the navicular bone, but in unshod feet this force appeared to be 14% lower (P<0.05) compared to flat shoes. Egg-bar shoes cause the horse's trot to be slightly less animated (P<0.05), compared to flat shoes and shoes with heel wedges. It is concluded that shoes with heel wedges reduce the force on the navicular bone as a result of a decreased moment of force at the distal interphalangeal joint in combination with a decreased angle between the deep digital flexor tendon distally and proximally of the navicular bone. Therefore it can be expected that in horses suffering from navicular disease, heel wedges will have the expected beneficial effect on the pressure on the navicular bone, while the effect of egg-bar shoes remains doubtful.
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And a couple more- (and no, i didnt find any of them on google :p)

Equine Vet J Suppl. 1998 Sep;(26):86-95.

Variation in surface strain on the equine hoof wall at the midstep with shoeing, gait, substrate, direction of travel, and hoof shape.
Thomason JJ.

Abstract
Objectives were to examine the deformation of the healthy equine front hoof during locomotion, by recording strains on its outer surface, and to test whether its mechanical behaviour is significantly altered under different locomotory conditions and variation in hoof shape. Strains were recorded in vivo from 5 rosette gauges around the circumference of the right forehooves of 12 horses. The magnitudes and orientations of principal strains at the midstep were compared statistically for different conditions of shoeing (shod vs. unshod), gait (walk vs. trot), substrate (treadmill vs. ground), and direction of travel (straight, right turn, left turn). Principal strains were regressed on 4 variables describing hoof shape-toe length, toe angle, and medial and lateral wall angle--to describe their contribution to variations in strain and hoof deformation. Shoeing did not essentially change the magnitudes of the larger, compressive principal strain, but caused some strain reorientation. Shoes decreased the variation in strains indicating that they tend to stabilise the deformation of the hoof. Strain magnitudes were significantly greater at trot than walk, but there was little change in orientation indicating that the general pattern of deformation of the hoof is constant between these 2 gaits. Strain patterns showed small but significant differences between locomotion on the treadmill and on ground, with the differences being more apparent at the toe than at the sides of the hoof. When turning, the quarter on the inside of the turn experienced 40% more strain than during straightline motion, while strain was similarly reduced on the opposite quarter. Strain magnitudes increase with toe length and toe angle, but were inversely proportional to medial and lateral angles. The change with toe length correlated with the range of body size of the animals in the sample. The change with toe angle was contrary to that found in in vitro tests. The change with medial and lateral angles indicated that hooves with more upright quarters are stiffer and possibly provide less impact absorption.
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Equine Vet J. 1989 Jan;21(1):17-22.

A technique for assessing hoof function in the horse.
Colles CM.

Abstract
This paper describes the application of foil strain gauges to the hoof wall, and the use of measuring equipment to monitor weightbearing and changes in hoof shape in shod and unshod horses. It concludes that the systems can detect hoof movement and that results are reproducible. It is also concluded that the use of a conventional nailed on iron shoe restricts flexion and spreading of the hoof wall at the ground surface, but has little effect on the degree of expansion of the heels of the foot.
 
ester said:
tbf I am actually quite surprised that it seems to have take so long for any sort of 'proper' ... by that I mean intended to be peer reviewed and published research to be carried out on this though I have only dipped in and out of it and am still not sure what I think about it tbh.
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I'd love to know what philanthropic millionaire is going to fund research that would decimate two industries - factory shoe and nail production and steel based farriery. And result in severely reduced vet billings from not providing drugs and immensely expensive diagnostics and treatments to horses with "navicular syndrome" and other foot lamenesses. It's a fact, nothing much gets researched in human or animal medecine unless it results in a new and expensive treatment. That's why it's a commercial rehab facility that is carrying out the Liverpool connected project.

When Rockley Farm publishes, and the Insurance Companies cotton on to the fact that they can avoid loss of use payouts if they fund horses for a barefoot rehab, the world may start to change a bit, because there will be a profit motive.

Meanwhile, I'll vote for the empirical evidence of my own horses' perfomances. I was the biggest sceptic the world had ever seen until I was forced to do it to save a horse.
 
cp, it was more that presumably people are doing work on this and perhaps it wouldnt take too much, given the now number of horses barefoot in uk/us etc to create some sort of study on it, though it would require someone with enough oomph to do it. Us PhD students aren't that expensive ;) and although I am industry funded this is quite unusual these days most of what is done here is research council based, it is science for science's sake and now with a much larger amount of funding for the animal welfare/behaviour etc than ever before when industry paid for a lot of it.

I have flagged the thread so I can nosey at the papers over the weekend.

Someone showed me pics of their horse's remedial farriery pre barefoot and later since he was barefoot and yes it was completely obvious what was best for this horse. Though the farriery by anyones standards was dreadful. So please don't think I am anti it at all! I have found all the threads that come up about it very interesting.

eta having just read the heel wedge abstract.... yup can see how wedges would work short term like that but am figuring long term effects are more interesting/important
 
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Someone showed me pics of their horse's remedial farriery pre barefoot and later since he was barefoot and yes it was completely obvious what was best for this horse. Though the farriery by anyones standards was dreadful. So please don't think I am anti it at all! I have found all the threads that come up about it very interesting.
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Here's one of my favourite picture Ester - just for fun - this is of my horse's hoof and the shoe that came off of that hoof placed against it in the "right place"

DSCF0381.JPG


We had one of the best farriers locally, his standard of care and workmanship were very high.

The changes that happened inside a matter of months after that shoe came off indicate that the shoe was having an effect on the hoof, the extent of which was unanticipated.

If we follow the school of thought that the horse grows the hoof they need to suport the needs of the column above it, this is telling us something important about how the presence of that shoe altered the dynamics and loading of the whole limb, and prevented the horse from growing an adequate level of support.

Interesting stuff this.
 
Sorry Ester I didn't mean to sound critical of you, I know you are one of the most open minded people on this topic. The research critieria would be horrific if it was spread over the barefoot population. If I had ten quid for every footie barefoot horse right now whose owner just cannot/will not accept that they need to remove them from daytime spring grass I'd have enough money to fund it :) !! There is a growing body of people who are understanding that many of the "horses that just can't do it" are actually being fed wrongly, but until the last farrier and vet stop saying "shoes are needed if your horse is going to do roadwork", there will be so much diversity in how each barefoot horse is treated that the research would be so full of caveats it will be worth less than Virgin holiday insurance when a volcano erupts :)
 
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brucea said:
If you have a look in the book "Feet First" by Sarah Braithwaite and Nic Barker, you will find an excellent set of references. You can look it up on Amazon. It's a good backgrounder.

These guys do invest a lot of personal time and money and effort in getting trained, and it always seems a bit unfair to have the labels "fanatics" or other similarly perjorative terms applied to them - even more so when they seem to be applied by folks who may not have used a good trimmer.

I have never heard any of the UKNHCP trimmers refer to farriers in this manner.
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I agree if anything they want to share the farriers knowledge so that together they can improve the welfare of the modern day horse! Sarah Braithwaite is the person who educated me in the barefoot movement and has trimmed Lina's feet, she is a very inspiring woman and provided me with all the text books i needed to make an informed decision. She is very passionate and those people that hold a negative judgement on the work of UKNHCP trimmers I would be impressed if you should make the effort to read about it rather than just spew tests and taunts.

As for the original topic I have and will continue to trim the flair and chips out of my girls feet between trims.
 
CP I actually thing 'research criteria' is the hardest thing here as I said, you have to formulate a testable hypothesis really ideally and like many things there are so many things going on it might take a while to get through them all... which is why research can be a bit never ending *looks at her own long list!*

The person I was speaking too about her own horses feet had some preserved cross sections one of a v v bad lami case and one of a navicular case. It was really interesting to be able to actually see all the structures in real life as it were and the affects the diseases have had.

brucea, nice pic :) yup v interesting.

barefooty peeps, general query (no evidence based research required ;) ) does age of horse seem to matter at all for taking them barefoot? Not paddock retirees but perhaps older horses that are still in regular work do they struggle more or no?
 
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