Why are half bred horses ok but half bred dogs aren't?!

MagicMelon said:
Whilst I'm not really into colour, I couldnt care less what colours my animals are or how particularily cute they are ;) But saying that my labradoodle is just the perfect family dog. I decided to go for one because I liked the general temperaments of labradors and poodles so the mix is great. I agree, surely pedigree dog breeding is worse as they are PURELY breeding for how they look and move and not at all on their temperament. I think people need to remember that people also have other requirements - we went for a labradoodle (and pedigree Bengal cats) because they are far better for my other half who is allergic to them! He couldnt cope with our previous moggy cats and his own family dogs whereas with these he is far better. I would never have chosen to buy a cat if he hadnt had his allergy (my mother worked for the CPL for years so we've done our fair share of taking on rescues!).

I just think there's a place for all and people shouldn't be so snobby about these half breeds calling them "mutts" in a derogatory fashion.
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Firstly, here's the guy who designed them, confessing his deep regret, for reasons already addressed in this thread: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/pets/10626590/Breeders-regret-over-creating-labradoodle.html

You cannot guarantee their non shedding hair - it depends on the cross, they were marketed quite incorrectly as some wonder dog for people with allergies, which is one of many reasons that they end up in rescue, when their owners become allergic.

Whether you find it offensive or not, it is a fact that your dog is a mongrel - it isn't a derogatory term, I'm not being snobby, I don't have a stick up my arse, it is just the definition of crossing breeds.

I, like others, are always baffled when people state that they "love a cockerpoo". It has no breed standard, it is a mongrel. Cocker spaniels vary hugely depending on their breeding lines as do poodles, stating you "love a cockerpoo" to me is like stating you love a terrier - possibilities are endless.

Even with health tested parents, there is a huge question mark regarding how your puppy will turn out, both aesthetically and physically. By breeding a pedigree in line with their breed standard, with the relevant health tests, you are much more likely to add 2 + 2 and get 4.
 
DR, do you have a problem with people calling horses Anglo Arabs or Irish Drafts or Warmbloods?
 
None. But it's widely acknowledged that these are crosses, a 'type' not a 'breed' with a made up name. You can get a cracking lurcher that can work/sofa surf/whatever around here for £200 or less. No special name, no inflated pricetag, and I find them nice to look at.

How do people feel about normal piebald cobs being called 'gypsy vanners' with a few extra £££ on the pricetag?
 
CorvusCorax said:
None. But it's widely acknowledged othat these are crosses, a 'type' not a 'breed' with a made up name. You can get a cracking lurcher that can work/sofa surf/whatever around here for £200 or less. No special name, no inflated pricetag, and I find them nice to look at.

How do people feel about normal piebald cobs being called 'gypsy vanners' with a few extra £££ on the pricetag?
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Why would anyone have a problem with it? No-one is forcing anyone to pay any particular amount of money for them. There is a breed standard, too, and specialist BD dressage competition for them.

It's no different from me wondering why anyone buys an iphone/ipad when an Android phone/tablet costs so much less.
 
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I don't know if people have a problem with it or not, which is why I was asking how people felt. The same as the OP has asked a question which people are answering.....

ETA You and the OP have drawn parallels with the horse world, so am I, if that's OK of course....
 
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Some very good points by CC.

Another point to consider is these Anglo Arabs etc are not bred in huge numbers in conditions which are unfortunately the lot of puppy farmed dogs and whether you like it or not these designer dogs are mostly bred by these puppy farmers because they can charge ridiculous prices knowing the gullible will pay it for the latest fashion statement.

On the Panorama programme a huge super store was selling these dogs to celebs, this superstore was buying from the puppy farmers, lots of people follow these celebs so what they buy is important to them and they will do the same.
 
MagicMelon said:
I agree, surely pedigree dog breeding is worse as they are PURELY breeding for how they look and move and not at all on their temperament. .
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Wrong! Oh, so wrong! Temperament is specified in the KC breed standard. The breed however may specify that the dog should be 'stand-offish', for instance, and breeders will breed to that.

People need to remember the origins of these dogs; many working dogs may be 'sharper' than that required as a family pet - likewise those of guarding breeds, with more drive as well. There are however plenty of pedigree dogs with temperaments designed to be a lap dog/companion dog/family pet, so please do not say that pedigree dogs are not bred for temperament. They are - it just may not be the temperament of your choosing.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/activities/dog-showing/breed-standards/about-breed-standards/

What is a breed standard?

Essentially, the breed standard is the picture in words for how a breed should look and also details the temperament of a breed.
 
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Puppy farming is evil.

But it's got nothing to do with the names the dogs are given, has it? If those dogs were not popular, something else would be. I understand Chihuahuas and other handbag dogs are being handed in at rescue centres in droves at the moment. Most of those were probably farmed. I saw a woman on TV pay hundreds for a 'pedigree Westie' with faked papers which was definitely mostly Bichon Frise (sp?) and had droopy ears.

Yes, puppy farming is evil. Getting bent out of shape about what people want to call their dogs won't stop them, but I hope some way can be found to do it.
 
I've seen dogs be excused from the show ring because of their temperaments and I wish it would happen more often.

In my own sport there is a temperament test before each competition and the dog cannot compete if it fails. Indeed the entire sport originated as a selection process for whether or not an animal should be bred from.
 
CorvusCorax said:
None. But it's widely acknowledged that these are crosses, a 'type' not a 'breed' with a made up name. You can get a cracking lurcher that can work/sofa surf/whatever around here for £200 or less. No special name, no inflated pricetag, and I find them nice to look at.

How do people feel about normal piebald cobs being called 'gypsy vanners' with a few extra £££ on the pricetag?
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Small piebald colts are basically worthless and we have seen an increase of these just being dumped.

We need to look at the root cause which is humans, its what they want not what they need.

Big coloured cobs but smaller ones nobody wants those.

These coloured cobs you wouldn't touch 30 years ago as they were classed as working horses. The fashion goes on.

Dog fashions, horse fashions, gadget fashions the list is endless. We are greedy and we want more. It is the western way of life.
 
I'm a dog groomer and believe me these designer breeds such as Labradoodles sometimes do shed hair! It makes sense as pure bred Labs are one of the worst breeds for shedding so if your 'doodle' is half of that what do think is going to happen?!
 
GeeGeeboy said:
I'm a dog groomer and believe me these designer breeds such as Labradoodles sometimes do shed hair! It makes sense as pure bred Labs are one of the worst breeds for shedding so if your 'doodle' is half of that what do think is going to happen?!
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Exactly and why so many are coming into rescue, people think they are going to get a non shedding dog but the reality is so different plus the loopy temperament is another reason.
 
Oh and to add to the breeding for looks thing, I was contacted by a woman who was insistent she wanted to use my dog at stud. I had never met her. The only things she knew about my dog were his breed and his colour....nothing about his health status, nothing about his temperament and she got defensive when I suggested this should have been her priority. This was a 'pet' breeder as her dog, as described, would be ineligible to show because of its colour.
 
Ive had thus discussion with a friend. To me it's not a snobbery that it's a cross breed, it's more to be sure of what you are buying,

As a majority, most people buy horses as adults, not foals. As an adult, probably broken in, you can assess the horses conformation, it's temperament and if it will suit what you want it for. However the majority of people buy puppies, maybe these cross breeds and at 8 weeks old it is not possible unless you have a crystal ball to know exactly what that puppy is going to grow up to look like and the temperament it will have (discounting training you put in). therefore buying a pedigree, both parents the same breed, increases the chances of you ending up with what you planned. If you buy a cross is could be a lot more like one parent than the other.

Just my thoughts
 
galaxy said:
Ive had thus discussion with a friend. To me it's not a snobbery that it's a cross breed, it's more to be sure of what you are buying,

As a majority, most people buy horses as adults, not foals. As an adult, probably broken in, you can assess the horses conformation, it's temperament and if it will suit what you want it for. However the majority of people buy puppies, maybe these cross breeds and at 8 weeks old it is not possible unless you have a crystal ball to know exactly what that puppy is going to grow up to look like and the temperament it will have (discounting training you put in). therefore buying a pedigree, both parents the same breed, increases the chances of you ending up with what you planned. If you buy a cross is could be a lot more like one parent than the other.

Just my thoughts
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I think that is as good of an explanation as any - and one I'm inclined to agree with.

More money being exchanged and a much bigger commitment when it comes down to it. So perhaps cross bred horses are more carefully considered before being bred, bought, sold, etc. How many people will vet a horse versus vet a pet dog? Even happy hackers will at least consider a vetting.

But dogs sadly are more of a cheap commodity. Your average pet dog owner maybe has never owned one before, and just buys cute and fluffy rather than a working dog. So just about "anything goes" whereas a first time horse owner maybe has had lessons, maybe takes a horse person to view, maybe takes their riding instructor or whatever. FIrst time dog owners phone up from an ad in gumtree and buy a westiedoodle when they thought they were getting a pomapoo.

As for the cute names. Gah. Hate them. I hate it in horses as much as I do dogs. No I don't mean I dislike the dogs or horses. I don't mind the terms Anglo Arab or Lurcher. I don't like QuarterMor, Quarab, Morab, Welarab etc. I am used to labradoodle and cockerpoo because it's been beat in to me. But I hate yorkipoo, cavachon etc as terms. Means absolutely nothing.
 
Ummm that's a little strange to hear. In Vancouver, I'm sure in all Canada, we love all kinds of dogs (Pets). Mix breed or not. My cousin had a Rottweiler / German shepherd dog. Friendly guy but I wouldn't be on his bad side. RIP Simba :(
 
The issue I have with designer crossbreed dogs is simply the vast number that are bred at puppy farms by cruel and greedy people. I have no issue with a crossbred dog that is responsibly and kindly bred.
 
I'm on the fence will all this to be honest. My old girl Annie was a ColliexLab and she was fantastic!

I'm all for a healthy animal. I can't stand unhealthy dogs, pure or not! Pugs are horrific! I met one the other day and it could barely breathe, it'd been out for less than a 5min walk. Why would you inflict that on an animal? If a horse acted like that, it'd be shot!!
All these dogs with legs that are too short, skin that's too loose, backs that slope, noses too short, eyes that bulge, bred too big, bred too small!

I think, as Galaxy mentioned, we often get dogs as puppies, but horses as trained adults. So we're more likely to look at the actual horse, than the parentage/breed. If we get a trained adult dog, or a foal, I suspect we wouldn't question a good dogs parents and we would want to see the foals parents or at least know the breeding.

So, perhaps it's more a case of when you buy them and what you're looking for.
 
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