Why are welshies so sharp?

[FlyingCircus]

Pondering this one lately, with my 6yr old welsh in full work now. She's an anxious sort, as are probably 90% of welshies I've known.

Is it something that is bred into them? On purpose/by accident?

Absolutely adore her, but her being the first welsh I've owned...I can see why they are an acquired taste!

 

[Mule]

There is some Arabian in them so maybe that's why. Still though, that's going back a while afaik. Perhaps the qualities they are bred for tend to coexist with anxiety.

 

[milliepops]

I was flicking through my mare's pedigree last night and came across a fair bit of Arab, tb, Hackney and randomly, Australian stock horse ? but yeah a long way back.

I'd guess it's like any breed that has a fairly strong trait. There's variation but it gets passed along. We probably don't work them hard enough tbh ? I think if mine did full days of hard labour instead of an hour twiddling about she'd be a lot less silly ?

 

[Mule]

I was flicking through my mare's pedigree last night and came across a fair bit of Arab, tb, Hackney and randomly, Australian stock horse ? but yeah a long way back.

I'd guess it's like any breed that has a fairly strong trait. There's variation but it gets passed along. We probably don't work them hard enough tbh ? I think if mine did full days of hard labour instead of an hour twiddling about she'd be a lot less silly ?

Australian stock horse! That's random. What would Kira say if you suggested rounding up cattle? You could put your dressage skills to use

 

[NinjaPony]

Honestly I think it’s just a breed trait. Mine has always been sharp as a tack from day one, 15 years later he’s less hysterical but still has that anxious/spooky streak so you have to watch him like a hawk!

 

[milliepops]

Australian stock horse! That's random. What would Kira say if you suggested rounding up cattle? You could put your dressage skills to use

I know exactly what she'd say, and the second word is "off" ???

 

[SpeedyPony]

I also suspect it might have something to do with the Arab blood- pony intelligence and strong will mixed with a bit of fire!
As for if it's deliberately bred in to them- I imagine so, to a certain extent, because if someone is looking for a welsh they probably want that temperament, I know I do!
I will say I've not met many I consider anxious particularly, very sharp and melodramatic, but I've always thought that a lot of the drama is an act- at least mine (one welsh D and one cross) both will put on a real show while someone is watching/reacting, but swiftly get bored and give up without a sufficiently interested audience ?

 

[Mule]

I know exactly what she'd say, and the second word is "off" ???

???

 

[milliepops]

Mine is definitely a genuinely anxious girl but that's probably got a lot to do with her past. Other times there definitely seems to be a degree of choice over whether to get hysterical ?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Following with interest, mine is anxious and hysterical at 22! Possibly like Millie Pops due to his past

They are also particularly hysterical at RANDOM things - bit of chalk on the road, different coloured sand, mud on the road, bubbles when I bath him etc....

Very spooky. Not sharp as in forward going but sharp in knowing something has changed especially when I used to jump...

Could have done a normal lesson, then cooling him off at the end the brakes will jam on, because there's a strange colour piece of sand

And the SNORTING! The dragon comes out...b

 

[SpeedyPony]

Mine is definitely a genuinely anxious girl but that's probably got a lot to do with her past. Other times there definitely seems to be a degree of choice over whether to get hysterical ?

I think this is probably it- they have the sort of temperament that, if mishandled can turn them into truly anxious animals.
My young sec D is incredibly bold and I've yet to see her frightened (temper tantrums aplenty though ?) but I can see that if she was handled by someone that got nervous around her antics or angry with her they could easily ruin her.

 

[milliepops]

I'd love to have one from sort of weaning age because I can imagine being able to nurture the boldness. I'm OK with tantrums ? I've only had ones that have already gone wrong. I think you're right SP some are fairly sensitive and if that's not dealt with correctly they go off the rails mentally.

 

[conniegirl]

Its the dragon in them.

I have to say I’ve not met any that are anxious.
Every on ive had has been as bold as brass, a total diva and a drama queen but i just laugh at the dragon impressions.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I'd love to have one from sort of weaning age because I can imagine being able to nurture the boldness. I'm OK with tantrums ? I've only had ones that have already gone wrong. I think you're right SP some are fairly sensitive and if that's not dealt with correctly they go off the rails mentally.

Haven't you got a foal that might need a friend? ? Seems like the perfect time! I had to sit on my chequebook when I went to get the young madam, so many lovely foals came through the ring!

 

[milliepops]

Haven't you got a foal that might need a friend? ? Seems like the perfect time! I had to sit on my chequebook when I went to get the young madam, so many lovely foals came through the ring!

Came very close, I was watching the online sales in the autumn but had to be sensible as don't really want 2 to back at the same time. Boo hiss.

 

[PeterNatt]

My traditional Welsh Section D Cob was totally laid back in all situations and anyone could ride her by themselves and she would always bring them back.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Came very close, I was watching the online sales in the autumn but had to be sensible as don't really want 2 to back at the same time. Boo hiss.

it's awful when we have to be sensible about these things! ?

 

[DirectorFury]

For some of them I expect it’s the inbreeding!

 

[marmalade76]

I also suspect it might have something to do with the Arab blood- pony intelligence and strong will mixed with a bit of fire!
As for if it's deliberately bred in to them- I imagine so, to a certain extent, because if someone is looking for a welsh they probably want that temperament, I know I do!
I will say I've not met many I consider anxious particularly, very sharp and melodramatic, but I've always thought that a lot of the drama is an act- at least mine (one welsh D and one cross) both will put on a real show while someone is watching/reacting, but swiftly get bored and give up without a sufficiently interested audience ?

Funnily enough, my arab is exactly the same, total drama queen and show off - when there's new people around he shows off like you wouldn't believe! But when he's away from home and out of his comfort zone, he pipes down a bit.

 

[windand rain]

Raised all mine from weanlings never had a sharp one yet. Forward but sane for all the section Ds and more whoa than go section As think a lot has to do with them being expected to be fiery cheeky or hot. So guess its nurture over nature in the main. Some do get a pretty raw deal in showing and handling as youngsters

 

[SpeedyPony]

Funnily enough, my arab is exactly the same, total drama queen and show off - when there's new people around he shows off like you wouldn't believe! But when he's away from home and out of his comfort zone, he pipes down a bit.

I see a lot of the "there's a NEW THING in the field, watch me flag my tail and puff like a steam trai- Are you laughing at me? How dare you! I am a fearsome dragon-pony, facing down this bloodthirsty plastic chair! Hmph, I'll go and graze then, if I'm not being appreciated. Just can't get the staff these days."

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I've only ever ridden one Welsh D, years ago. He was a large (around 15.2iirc) stallion that was a literally dope on a rope....gave me one hell of a shock when I later met 2 that a friend owned (both mares) that were absolutely batshit crazy ?

 

[PurBee]

My mare is welsh d crossed with an arab and is plenty dragon when she can be bothered...if she can avoid the thing she dislikes she’s fine!
Most the time she’s very chilled-out, but when she’s not liking something, she never hesitates to let me know by glaring, snorting, jumping on hot coals and general ho-ha behaviour - yet, she listens to me when i say its cool, nothing to worry about.
That took some time though - she doesnt listen to people she doesnt know, so around unknown people she’s really guarded, as i discovered when i first got her, to the previous owners surprise as she was a ‘sweetie’ with him.
Took trust for the sweetness to shine through.
Its her birthday today and she’s so gorgeous in my eyes, despite her diva side ??

 

[FlyingCircus]

Interesting the other views! Mine I've had straight from breeder, had never left home and was an unpacked 4yr old. So I backed her, have done all her "firsts". She is very much an insecure worrier. I'm hoping she will get better over time, as can't be nice! An example is this evening...solo hack and she has been awesome, not a foot out of place. Then I ask her to go past a stationary tractor, then a person trimming their hedge in quick succession. She says no, I say yes please. She danced past both, but then the rest of the ride the entire world was out to get her. We spooked at logs, cats, a man walking his dog...

Mine's tantrums seem to come from a lack of patience and lack of understanding what is wanted of her (she throws her forelegs about if you're teaching her something new and she thinks she keeps getting it wrong).

 

[PurBee]

I see a lot of the "there's a NEW THING in the field, watch me flag my tail and puff like a steam trai- Are you laughing at me? How dare you! I am a fearsome dragon-pony, facing down this bloodthirsty plastic chair! Hmph, I'll go and graze then, if I'm not being appreciated. Just can't get the staff these days."

Yeah they sure love an audience!
I’ve spotted mine prancing and snorting in the paddocks when im in there, looking around for me to check im catching their amazing display of independent power! Once they see im all eyes, the performance continues, im their cheerleader and its a blast! Even the dog is on the sidelines and they especially like showing her how fast they run and loud they snort....dog sits by amazed...looking at me like “wtf are they doing?! let me run with them!” Its quite the party, and then as soon as i turn to go to the yard, they realise and immediately head down munching...no audience so why bother dancing?! Hahaa ?

 

[SpeedyPony]

Mine's tantrums seem to come from a lack of patience and lack of understanding what is wanted of her (she throws her forelegs about if you're teaching her something new and she thinks she keeps getting it wrong).

I've had a few frustrated tantrums too- I wonder if it's because they're usually so quick on the uptake, I can imagine it must be intensely irritating for them to not understand what you want when they're used to always being two steps ahead.
I'd much rather have temper than fear though, handling ponies that panic when they're confused is far more stressful!
ETA- I've found that moving on to the next thing once they've got something right helps prevent some of the tantrums- if I try and drill them on one thing they keep looking for a different answer, as if they assume I wouldn't still be asking had they got it right. Maybe I'm ascribing to much abstract reasoning there, but that's certainly what it looks like!

 

[GSD Woman]

Is this all of the Welshies? Or is one group better than the others.

 

[SpeedyPony]

Is this all of the Welshies? Or is one group better than the others.

Better how? Do you want more or less melodramatic??
I think they're all pretty similar- I've not had much to do with sec As and Bs since I was a child, but I remember them being fairly sharp and opinionated.

 

[PurBee]

ETA- I've found that moving on to the next thing once they've got something right helps prevent some of the tantrums- if I try and drill them on one thing they keep looking for a different answer, as if they assume I wouldn't still be asking had they got it right. Maybe I'm ascribing to much abstract reasoning there, but that's certainly what it looks like!

ive experienced the exact same thing. Once something is learnt repetition twice is doable, but ask 3 times and they can get flustered for the reason you give - they start questioning if they got it right....if so, why repeat it....they must have it wrong. So repetition of anything over and over in the same session i avoid for purely that reason. I’ll repeat later on in the session, ask once, but never do drilling.
(Unlike dogs - drilling cements in their mind the ask...they seem to like repetition, it usually comes with food reward, so inversely they thrive on it)

If they keep getting something wrong due to not getting it i dont repeat more than 3 times trying to show, the frustration sets in for them, so i move onto a move they know, they then feel relieved, then i move back to the move they didnt get and ask again while adding an extra component to help them understand better what im asking.

The welsh seem to thrive when several moves are known and i string them all together too, like they are testing themselves to see how quickly they can perform the ask, and they like the interraction, the gelding with more arab in him than welsh positively thrives on fast succession asks...he gets really into it, really chuffed with himself...can i even say he’s capable of self-pride?!
But they both certainly like that we ‘speak the same language‘ when training is learnt, and seem to really enjoy doing as asked, having a linked language through training.
When unsure the fluster frustration is evident and perhaps thats what gives them the reputation of being a bit firey, as i can imagine if someone asks slightly differently what they want to their usual training, they could misunderstand what the ask is.

One thing ive learnt with my 2, theyre my only indepth examples i know, so unsure about other welshies, i can’t force an issue, i cant use more and more pressure to aid their understanding, i have to figure out another way to ask, or just move on, then ask again later with same pressure and technique. They usually get the ask with very little pressure/release. They fire up with too much pressure, and the fire brain doesnt learn, that brain just learns training is stressful.
Theyve taught me to become very light with training. As the saying goes, you cant fight fire with fire!

 

[GSD Woman]

SpeedyPony, I was hoping that the Ds were not so silly.