Why can't/don't people fit tack correctly?

i think perhaps in today's society if someone wants something then it's deemed acceptable if they get it, regardless of cost, knowledge, dedication etc. A bit like having the latest technolog-car, phone etc. If you want it get it on credit.

Without sound like a real oldie, when I was young you knew you had to save up for what you wanted and because you wanted it and it took effort to get it, you cherished it and took time to learn about said 'thing'.

I was only allowed to have riding lesson once a week as a kid for a number of reason, but mainly due to the fact my parents weren't horsey and they couldn't afford for me to have a pony.

So when I got my first job, I got my first horse as a sharer, then loaned, the bought one. Whilst taking that journey I attended an evening class run by the resident yard instructor of where the horses were kept. I've still got (and still use for reference) the pony club manual of horsemanship that she made us all buy. I learnt so much from those classes and had a lot of fun in the process. Not sure if this sort of thing is stil available, unless you go to a college?
 
3 ring Dutch gags with one pair of reins instead of two - usually on the bottom ring and flash nosebands on upside down. The buckle is meant to be on the left side of the horse's head with the end pointing down, just like the other straps.
 
JulesRules said:
I must say that the "appropriate tack" comment quite suprised me. It made me wonder how many people she teaches who do not have appropriate tack!
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My previous instructor advised me I was using the wrong bit. I had a loose ring lozenge snaffle. She advised to change to a single jointed egg but. The change was incredible. People often have good intentions with the loos ring snaffle, but it certainly doesn't suit all horses. I am very glad that she advised me that :) Not much point other than I agree that is is great when instructors will also advise you on correct tack.
 
alainax said:
I am very glad that she advised me that :) Not much point other than I agree that is is great when instructors will also advise you on correct tack.
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:) Good to hear.

I was always taught that advising on tack suitability, options etc which would affect the horse's way of going was part and parcel of being an Instructor. Perhaps nowadays, many people think that it is nothing to do with the Instructor, or that they (the customer, and therefore employer) know better ? (In which case why have lessons at all?)

I am afraid that I am one of those annoying people that sub-consciously tuck straps into billets, straighten nosebands, browbands etc - of total strangers! Quite embarrassing.

Someone asked earlier why people cannot seem to do up girths whilst mounted anymore - I can't, because I either ride with a dressage saddle and I simply cannot reach the straps, or a Colombian with a cinch. Easier for me to hop off.
 
To me, it often feels like those who shout loudest are the ones who are listened to, and they are not necessarily the ones with the most knowledge. A little knowledge, a lot of money, and access to Facebook seems to make an expert these days.

My personal bugbear is the crank noseband in the hands of people who like things done up as tight as they go (and then complain their horse is unrideable due to headshaking - I want to stretch an elastic band tight around their face, across the nostrils, and then ask them if they fancy a run!). Where did this noseband come from? I'd never seen one at all up until a few years ago, and now every other off the peg bridle seems to have one, and the rest have those annoying flash loops that can't be removed.
 
Hepsibah said:
3 ring Dutch gags with one pair of reins instead of two - usually on the bottom ring and flash nosebands on upside down. The buckle is meant to be on the left side of the horse's head with the end pointing down, just like the other straps.
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Well then I've learned something new today. Never realised there was a right and a wrong way up although as it happens this is how I tend to attach it. Prefer not to use flash, unless it's for something like our first hunting trip.
 
Cortez said:
Most of the above, and people who use equipment they don't understand, or even know what it's for. Drives me mad.
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Totally agree. Theres a few kids on my yard that ride their ponies in dutch gags. When I asked them one day why the (seemingly quiet) ponies were in a DG bit the response was "dont know....whats a dutch gag"....
 
Woolly Hat n Wellies said:
To me, it often feels like those who shout loudest are the ones who are listened to, and they are not necessarily the ones with the most knowledge. A little knowledge, a lot of money, and access to Facebook seems to make an expert these days.

My personal bugbear is the crank noseband in the hands of people who like things done up as tight as they go (and then complain their horse is unrideable due to headshaking - I want to stretch an elastic band tight around their face, across the nostrils, and then ask them if they fancy a run!). Where did this noseband come from? I'd never seen one at all up until a few years ago, and now every other off the peg bridle seems to have one, and the rest have those annoying flash loops that can't be removed.
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Arrgh, this - I buy cranks because I don't want the flash loops that now seem to be present on all cavessons! I quite like them actually, I like that they're padded and wider than a normal cavesson, I don't do them up tight though.
 
Enfys said:
A combination of everything mentioned, lack of education (riding schools, pony club etc) and a lack of self education ( but really, how can that be? Every horse person I know has a ton of books, reads voraciously and sucks up information all the time )

Personally I feel that so much online information isn't necessarily a good thing, those who know no better see ill fitted tack etc and think that because so and so jumps his horse, or wins at dressage in this, that and the other then that's how it should be. No thought that horses are all individuals as are riders and circumstances.
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The problem is that self education really needs:
1) A very exceptional source/core book that covers everything or at least provides the most detailed start to finish of each process.

2) A capacity to question and distrust information.

The former is hard to find, whilst books can be very informative they often leave out little bits of information or deal with the concept of the ideal and thus don't go into the legion of minor differences that are important to notice to adapt the theory into practice. Websites are generally very poor for providing an overview and are best left for niche skill boosting where the internet generally does well.

The latter is also rare as we are, as a species, generally trusting and the early information we absorb often sets the groundwork and boundaries for further understanding.


Those who don't know don't know what they don't know and thus when it comes to learning if they don't know something they don't know they don't know it to find out about it. This hinders self learning through the internet; google is great but you have to generally know part of the answer in order to post the right question to find the information and to sift through the legion of results. Further its very hard to separate fact from opinion and sometimes the informative website is buried under a legion of high ranking opinion sites.



I would also argue that part of it could link to how education, as a whole, is treated. Schools operate with a lot less of the repetitive nature that they once did and the result is that people learn a skill and practice it only until they are half competent with it. Then they move on.
This often means that they are learning something new ontop of information that is still pretty fresh in their minds, which makes it easier to forget the earlier info in favour of focusing on the new. Furthermore in the case of working with animals it can also mean that they only learn to - in this case - tack up one or two horses. Thus they know "how to tack up" but they might not have been taught or needed to make use of actual theory and methods. Heck many places with tack for each horse will have wear marks on each bit of tack where its set to normally; they fit the tack on, select the most used gaps and its done. And most times it will be right because that tack is fitted to that horse.



Then there is, of course, the fact that not every instructor is as experienced as the other. There's no nationally required standard and thus anyone can call themselves an instructor; from those who know only book theory through to those with years of experience who know everything in a hands on way but can't really put it into taught/book theory style practice.


Overcrowding can also be a problem, teaching a group its very easy for weaker students to slip through the net and pass whilst not actually having as deep an understanding or complete an understanding as one would hope.


Common sense is also not horse sense. For those new to riding they don't have any common sense as they don't know what they are looking at in a detailed manner in order to know what they are doing is wrong or right. Mix that with infrequent teaching - once a week for an hour for example; and unless they are horse mad and reading and doing stuff inbetween its again not an ideal learning environment.



I would also say one thing that can also be damaging is when a person reads too much theory before getting hands on. Theory can be overpowering and often there are theories that conflict each other where hands on elements help dictate the order of importance (ergo which theory trumps the other). Get a student loaded up on theory and they can confuse themselves, especially if the instructor isn't reading from that theory book. Or they can be overconfident which is just as dangerous as inexperience and even more so when one is overconfident whilst being inexperienced.

For that reason sometimes its best not to do any reading; to actually have some very back to basics first lessons so that at least the instructor who is to teach you is going to establish those early boundaries and starting points from which to build from.
 
Keep reading flash in the post's, saviour of the universe wasn't he, you will all now have Queens Flash WHOOOOOOAAA...DUM DAA DUMM DA DOO going round in your heads for the rest of the day :-), well if I have to, you all started it ;-)
 
Of all things, I hate badly fitting saddles the most. You can't just plop anything on your horses' back and expect it to magically fit, then act surprised when the horse becomes sore and try to fix it with another horribly thick pad (even if the saddle is too narrow to start with...or just with a broken tree)! Unfortunately, this is a widely spread "practice" around here and people don't care enough to educate themselves and check on their saddles regularly.
 
Enjoyable post! Except for Pedantic...thanks for that wretched song!

I like a crank cavesson because it is padded and my horse is very fine skinned, but it is for show only..horse could actually do without a nose and for schooling. However he will need to wear it competing so it stays on.

Never hurts to recheck tack either. Says she who had cleaned tack and taken to pieces..

And clearly didn't fasten the reins properly back onto the bit. Nice pony to stop when I found myself with only one rein attached!
 
I am pretty sure that people not knowing how to fit tack correctly coincides with the issuing of certificates to those who have been on a 2-day (if they're lucky) saddle fitting course. Those who have paid for the 'training' advertise their services and novices come to believe that there is a magic formula/special glasses issued with the certificate. If you don't possess these you can't fit tack!
Nonsense! There is no especially elusive skill to fitting tack, any fool should be able to tell if the browband is too tight, the bit too wide or the saddle sitting too low over the withers.

I was surprised when I asked the saddler to reflock my saddle because it had a developed a lump that she said that most people can't tell. There was no particular skill involved, I noticed the lumpiness in a routine check.

My Draft mare has worn 4 different saddles in the time that I have had her, each time she changed shape, I fished another saddle out of the tackroom, tried it on her, if it looked ok, I sat on it and asked her opinion. If she was comfortable and went well, I took it that the saddle fitted. No special course needed!

However when I first learned to ride, the RS was run by 2 very thorough RIs who made sure that all their pupils understood the basics of stable management and horse-care, including checking that tack was fitted correctly.
 
View said:
I wonder how much of this is down to the risk averse culture of insurance causing riding schools to put their clients on a fully tacked horse and don't teach the basics of care.

Edited for dreadful spelling.
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As an ex riding school owner - we taught horse and pony care outside of the lesson - eg a holiday program. We'd never get the rider on the horse in the allotted time if we let them get their horse/pony ready.

Teach them to ride in one lesson and have separate lessons for HM. I struggle with our pony club kids - they want to ride but don't seem to comprehend that in order to get the best out of their pony they need to learn how to look after it.
 
zaminda said:
I think part of the problem with some tack today is that it is mainly off the peg, and is poorly designed. The difference in price is so big, that people are more likely to buy it. I bought a cob bridle recently, browband quite large, throatlash too short, cheek pieces on the long side, and noseband to short round the front, but ok in general! Flash strap seriously long though!
I look back to my childhood and remember the seriously badly fitting saddles on many of the riding schools I learnt at, the standards on that are higher now.
I do find that some of the matchy match sets don't fit terribly well, which doesn't help people.
I've also been stunned by how many people use bandages when they don't know how to put them on properly!
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I really don't know where the manufacturers get their sizing from - I find this all the time, I now tend to buy two bridles, same colour different sizes and swap parts around to get the fit. Ihave drop nosebands made - gone are the days when you could by a fully adjustable drop - they used to have buckles on the front part too to ensure you could adjust to fit. I also buy browbands separately so as to get one that actually fits.

My biggest hate is seeing pelhams curb chains done up incorrectly - the chain should always go through the top rings, to place it in the correct place - chin groove - which also prevents it pinching the lips whenever the reins are used
Pelhamchainthroughring.jpg
 
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Tnavas said:
My biggest hate is seeing pelhams curb chains done up incorrectly - the chain should always go through the top rings, to place it in the correct place - chin groove - which also prevents it pinching the lips whenever the reins are used
Pelhamchainthroughring.jpg
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Oh wow, thanks for that. It has never occurred to me but makes perfect sense.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Another one: the apparent lack of any pride in turnout.

Ok, we can all rush to get out, but to see the same person hacking out all yr round on a horse with badly fitted filthy tack and nearly dead saddle cloth on a dirty horse, makes me squirm.

Im as guilty on occasions of only removing mud to ride, but this one has dreadlocks in mane and tail all yr round, bot eggs not touched etc. Yes, it's her own horse ....
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Everyone excuse the multiple posts!

I once was writing at a dressage event and a young rider came in on a muddy horse, hair everywhere and one of her ipod ear phone hanging out of her collar.

Judge and I gave each other a look and I said maybe horse was difficult to load and she only just made it for her time.We chuckled and carried on. Some time later same rider entered on another horse just as grubby, this time the ipod earphone were hanging out of her pocket. Judge and I shook our heads in astonishment!

I spotted the young rider later and went to have a word with her about respect for herself, horse and the judge. She shrugged her shoulders and said why bother brushing them when they'll roll and be muddy again when I turn them back out! Oh Dear there is no hope for this one!
 
Tnavas said:
As an ex riding school owner - we taught horse and pony care outside of the lesson - eg a holiday program. We'd never get the rider on the horse in the allotted time if we let them get their horse/pony ready.

Teach them to ride in one lesson and have separate lessons for HM. I struggle with our pony club kids - they want to ride but don't seem to comprehend that in order to get the best out of their pony they need to learn how to look after it.
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I kind of get that, and agree that stable management should be taught in it's own right. But it is possible, and in my view essential, that those who are old enough should be taught some of the real basics as part of their lesson (as many of us were) e.g. how to run up stirrups and loosen girths, how to check that the tack on your mount is safe and correctly fitted (the basics here - saddle in the right place, etc), how to lead a horse.

And some care items should be covered during riding teaching time because of the overlap e.g. warm up/warm down.
 
Tnavas said:
I really don't know where the manufacturers get their sizing from - I find this all the time, I now tend to buy two bridles, same colour different sizes and swap parts around to get the fit. Ihave drop nosebands made - gone are the days when you could by a fully adjustable drop - they used to have buckles on the front part too to ensure you could adjust to fit. I also buy browbands separately so as to get one that actually fits.

My biggest hate is seeing pelhams curb chains done up incorrectly - the chain should always go through the top rings, to place it in the correct place - chin groove - which also prevents it pinching the lips whenever the reins are used
Pelhamchainthroughring.jpg
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thank you for this a judge recently told me off for doing this I thought I was going mad
 
may be off the peg tack just doesn't fit right because the manufactures just want us to buy more from them......buy a bridle with a brow band to small... have to buy a separate one that's got £10+ on what the cost would be within the bridle!

what ever the reason its very annoying! never bought a bridle that fits 100%, always had a change a couple of parts.
 
View said:
I kind of get that, and agree that stable management should be taught in it's own right. But it is possible, and in my view essential, that those who are old enough should be taught some of the real basics as part of their lesson (as many of us were) e.g. how to run up stirrups and loosen girths, how to check that the tack on your mount is safe and correctly fitted (the basics here - saddle in the right place, etc), how to lead a horse.

And some care items should be covered during riding teaching time because of the overlap e.g. warm up/warm down.
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All our riders were expected to check their girth, stirrup length and to mount correctly. All these were taught in the first lesson and checked from then on at every ride. They were also taught to adjust stirrups when mounted, correctly with the foot staying in the stirrup and also to tighten their girth while mounted. As we only ever used a thin piece of carpet under felt under the saddle they didn't tend to slip.
We ran pony care courses in the holidays along with a test after the rider had attended two sessions, usually 6hrs duration. When they had completed level 3 - about D+ level they could then put their name on the waiting list to be helpers.
 
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windand rain said:
went to a clinic today where the instructor put every noseband up and tightened every throat lash and girth til the ponies could barely breathe. Wasnt impressed to be honest.
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Tack check fine, but I would be furious if someone simply waltzed up and altered the fit of my tack beyond tucking in a stray strap or something as simple as that, throatlash - forget it, hands off. Even girthing I would expect them to suggest it could do with going up a hole or two perhaps but not to do it themselves.

As an Instructor it is the done thing to check tack before a lesson, isn't it? Did she discuss why she was altering tack? If I felt the need to alter the fit I would say why it might be more comfortable or appropriate to tighten, loosen, lengthen or shorten and ask what their reasons were for having the tack as it was. To blithely change it without a word is not on.
 
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Ok, question ref correct use of tack. Do you / should you use gamgee under exercise or stable bandages?
When growing up I understood gamgee should be used, but never had occasion to bandage.
When my pony did her check ligament 2 years ago my vet said to box rest and bandage and showed me how to bandage and didn't use gamgee. My pony had several progress checks where the vet removed her bandages herself and never commented on my lack of gamgee.
However chatting to my instructor the other week she said gamgee should be used.
Now I'm confused.
I want to start using bandages again for when I'm lunging and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
So gamgee, yes or no?
(These bandages are fleece for the first half then elasticated for the 2nd half)
 
little_critter said:
Ok, question ref correct use of tack. Do you / should you use gamgee under exercise or stable bandages?
When growing up I understood gamgee should be used, but never had occasion to bandage.
When my pony did her check ligament 2 years ago my vet said to box rest and bandage and showed me how to bandage and didn't use gamgee. My pony had several progress checks where the vet removed her bandages herself and never commented on my lack of gamgee.
However chatting to my instructor the other week she said gamgee should be used.
Now I'm confused.
I want to start using bandages again for when I'm lunging and want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
So gamgee, yes or no?
(These bandages are fleece for the first half then elasticated for the 2nd half)
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Gamgee under stable bandages, always.

Gamgee under exercise bandages, depends on the bandages. I tend to use polo fleece without gamgee.

With your 50/50 fleece/elasticated bandages, I personally wouldn't use gamgee underneath.
 
1. So glad someone else has pointed out the Dutch gag/single rein combo. Would the abusers ever use a pelham with just the curb rein?

2. Bits with an inch hanging out each side of the mouth and way too low.

3. Mix & match bridles - personally I've not come across this (Stubben aficionado - they always seem to fit) - but I have noticed that shiny patent-"leather" coloured monstrosities purchased from eBay don't seem to have been measured to fit a horse.

On the subject of bits... I have spent many years at German dressage yards and I've been wracking my brains trying to remember if anyone ever used anything more "harsh" than a Pelham (always with two reins). I don't remember hanging cheeks, waterfords (for the love of god), gags or anything else people *need* to control their horses...
 
High Hope said:
My biggest pet hate is when you see the saddle right on top of the horses shoulder blades-- grr!

It REALLY annoys me when I see it in riding schools-- why doesn't the instructor correct it??!!
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my mare has massive shoulders and I've always put it on so it doesn't restrict her shoulders, as that is how it was fitted. After a about 8 years a girl I worked with came to livery with me and she tried to tell me that her saddle was too far back! she literally thought I was bonkers when I said that's were it needed to be!
 
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