Why do people do this???

Burnttoast said:
I remember an eminent-in-her-field trainer saying in the course of coffee break conversation that if we did what was in horses' best interests we wouldn't be riding them.
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I agree. I'm becoming more and more aware of the fact that we ride horses for our own benefit and enjoyment , all they do is serve us.
 
Tarragon said:
It was when I met someone who said they they wouldn't ride unless they were able to compete that took me aback. Such a foreign idea to me!
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Oh, yeah that is a bit strange to me too. Riding is firmly in the Activity section for me rather than Sport. If I compete its because I've been bullied (encouraged by lovely friends) into it for a fun day out.
 
cauda equina said:
Surely it depends how a horse is ridden

Moderate exercise with a competent, appropriate sized rider, well fitting tack and teeth/back/feet all attended to as necessary is not going to hurt a horse (assuming he is sound in the first place) and will probably do him good, just as humans are better moving than not
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Why does it ever benefit the horse to carry extra weight on its back though? I'm not confident what the weight limit should be to guarantee no damage ever. I recall reading a study about post mortems on ridden horses where they all had a callous on the point of the shoulder from repeated bumping against the saddle. I've caused damage to a horse in a treeless, so that isn't guaranteed either. And no horse would want my seat bones on it bareback.

Attendance to feet is also subject to huge variations of competence by owners, trainers, farriers and vets. Navicular syndrome is overwhelmingly a man-made disease.

I'm in daily conflict about this. I deliberately bought a horse who wouldn't be alive for the leisure market alone, and I'm still conflicted about whether I actually have any right to sit on him.
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It benefitted my TB because if not ridden her locking stifles acted up. It benefits current 12hh ex-feral pony for the same reason. It benefitted pssm pony because it kept her symptoms at bay, stopped her losing muscle and reduced her pain. It benefits a fair few of mine because with enough exercise they don’t have to have a muzzle or a starvation paddock. Little Shetland either has a very short life on medication until we completely lose control of her weight, or a longer one if we can get her in enough work and off the medication completely.

Then there was the abject longing in little Shetland’s eyes when she had to watch ‘her’ children ride other ponies and wasn’t well enough to be ridden - for months and months. She’d stand in her little paddock and wistfully watch, transfixed by the sight of them riding. Now she can do so again herself she completely ignores ponies being ridden in the next door paddock!
 
Re: the riding debate. I had a period of wondering if riding was ethical and the conclusion I came to is this:

Bo LOVES hacking. I mean really loves it. If I could communicate with him and give him the choice of either never being ridden again but hardly ever leaving the property, or to continue as we are, I am convinced he'd opt to continue as we are.

And I genuinely don't think that all horses object to being ridden. Our hacks are shared experiences that I'm convinced he enjoys as much as I do. He is delighted when we have a good long canter or gallop.

As long as we make sure they are comfortable and not in pain, and are considerate I.e getting off and walking the last mile home etc, I honestly don't think it's something to feel guilty about. With the proviso that if the horse seems unhappy or not up for it in any way, that they are not forced to perform regardless.
 
ycbm said:
Why does it ever benefit the horse to carry extra weight on its back though? I'm not confident what the weight limit should be to guarantee no damage ever. I recall reading a study about post mortems on ridden horses where they all had a callous on the point of the shoulder from repeated bumping against the saddle. I've caused damage to a horse in a treeless, so that isn't guaranteed either. And no horse would want my seat bones on it bareback.

Attendance to feet is also subject to huge variations of competence by owners, trainers, farriers and vets. Navicular syndrome is overwhelmingly a man-made disease.

I'm in daily conflict about this. I deliberately bought a horse who wouldn't be alive for the leisure market alone, and I'm still conflicted about whether I actually have any right to sit on him.
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I suppose I feel it's a trade off - extra exercise v carrying me
I wouldn't feel safe leading them where we hack; they enjoy hacking (one of them suggests new routes to try); I make efforts to keep my weight down, tack fitting an so on. They are both barefoot.
I didn't breed them, and if I weren't riding them someone else probably would be. I like to think they are getting a decent deal with me
 
cauda equina said:
I suppose I feel it's a trade off - extra exercise v carrying me
I wouldn't feel safe leading them where we hack; they enjoy hacking (one of them suggests new routes to try); I make efforts to keep my weight down, tack fitting an so on. They are both barefoot.
I didn't breed them, and if I weren't riding them someone else probably would be. I like to think they are getting a decent deal with me
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I get it and I'm trying to give mine the same, the best life I can and a better l life than he might have elsewhere and definitely a better life than he's lived in the past. I just can't stop these feelings running round and round in my head since I found out I was riding a horse with really wonky bones for 5 years without knowing :(
 
It’s rather a piece of string question. Horses like people have different temperaments and some are just more people friendly than others and always want to be at the party, l have an especially nosey one who wanted want to miss out on anything. When l came home tonight l could see him standing looking over the wall, he‘d obviously been entertaining himself watching the neighbours children canoeing in the lake below his field. Given half a chance he’d have been in the water with them.
 
Highmileagecob said:
Asking for rational explanations is not passing judgement. If the sole intention of buying a horse is to turn it out in a field and basically ignore it, would it not be kinder to buy a picture or a shiny car? Domestic animals are bred to be around humans. If you are not going to interact with the horse, why bother? All posters have outlined their interaction with their own horses, I was simply curious as to why this doesn't always happen. As to keeping quiet as long as the horse is cared for - it is the people who come to the yard twice daily who end up contacting the people who don't to inform them of lameness, cuts etc..
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On the rationale side, it could also be a temporary thing.

For example, I may need to consider working abroad in the future. I would keep my horses but they will go onto full livery or perhaps retirement livery. That may be for a few years but I really don’t mind paying, as long as I know they are looked after and safe then it would be worth it to me. And they could stay together, and when I get back, I’ll start them up again.

Or, if I’m very busy at work, then they go onto livery for a spell. I’m there as often as I can be but that might be only a couple of days a week. In the context of their lives (granted I prefer to have my horses from yearling/ 2yo until they die), I don’t worry about a few months in livery and not being ridden.

I’ve also kept horses for friends in similar situations. People who are traveling or living abroad, or can’t keep their horse for some reason. The horses have always seemed happy.

I genuinely think if the horse is happy and well cared for, then it’s a non-issue as to who owns it and where it is. I don’t think they need to be ridden in general.
 
ycbm said:
I get it and I'm trying to give mine the same, the best life I can and a better l life than he might have elsewhere and definitely a better life than he's lived in the past. I just can't stop these feelings running round and round in my head since I found out I was riding a horse with really wonky bones for 5 years without knowing :(
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:( - but when you did know you tried to fix him, and when that proved not to be possible you did right by him.
I get that that was a horrible time for you and has left its mark, but in another home things could have been so much worse for him
 
ycbm said:
I don't feel, with what we, and I personally, know now about what horses hide from us, that it's possible to ever be sure that they are not in pain or stressed.
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Possibly.

And I completely understand why you feel like that. But I think that you did know when things weren't right and responded and started looking for answers straight away. You were very, very unlucky ycbm.

Bo is very sparky and full of energy and mischief. If that ever changed, or he lost his love and enthusiasm for hacking, I'd stop riding him straight away.

I do think the horse's opinion matters and I'm not one for carrying on regardless.
 
ycbm said:
I don't feel, with what we, and I personally, know now about what horses hide from us, that it's possible to ever be sure that they are not in pain or stressed.
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I did a little bit with an equine behaviourist, a friend has done a lot more with her, and she went into micro expressions a little bit. A single wrinkle in the muzzle or above an otherwise relaxed eye, that sort of thing. It was so interesting and really helpful for my friends pony. He was trying really hard to be a good boy when she first got him and hiding that he was really quite sore very successfully.

Of course it just gives me another thing to be anxious about, and I know just enough from the single session I had that I know how much I DON'T know. I should get in touch with her again probably.
 
cauda equina said:
The people who have unridden horses on full livery - if they're not doing them and not riding them, do they ever see them?
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Does it matter as long as the horses are getting proper care? Maybe some people lose interest, others have things happening in their life which makes it difficult to visit the horse, or they just don't want to go to the stable.

I have horses fit and ready to compete, but I have no interest in competing, so I don't do it. Doesn't hurt them, so it is my own business.

I hope that OP's original question was curiosity rather than judgement, and in this case the anwer is that it is for thousands of individual reasons. Loss of interest, loss of confidence, lack of time, illness, berevement, family, work.....everything that life can throw at us..... the only important thing is that the horses are properly cared for.
 
I have horses I don’t ride or ride minimally because it suits me and them. I get as much enjoyment from owning horses as riding them. One of mine retired at 15 after an injury. One is a 3yo who is unlikely to stand up to work. He is sound and happy at the moment and I don’t want him to break.

My ridden horse is barely in what would be considered light work. She’s 6 and huge so I’ve not wanted to rush her. She has a nice life. Lots of turnout with a friend, ad lib hay, regular physio, horse friendly tack, likes her hacking, is developing the right muscles. Yes she could do more but doesn’t need to. If I wanted her to do more, I would probably need to pay a pro to ride her. And I worry that they would feel they needed to ‘get results’ and upset her.
 
lme said:
I get as much enjoyment from owning horses as riding them.
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This in a nutshell. For me it's as much about owning horses as it is riding. If I stopped riding mine today, I would still get pleasure simply from owning them and spending time with them.
Its why I personally wouldn't choose to have mine on full livery as for me, I enjoy caring for them daily and the extra time spent with them (I'll remind myself I said this in January 🙈🤣)
 
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Also, I wouldn't be so sure people don't ride and you just don't see it.

I ride 5-6 days a week and pony is novice endurance fit but I typically ride early mornings so only a handful of people on the yard ever see me tack up let alone get on and ride.

The horse in the next stable events (I think from what they've said) but owner rides later in the evenings when I'm gone so have rarely seen them ride. I've no idea if they actually event at all? 🤷‍♀️ It's none of my business either way.

I couldn't tell you what many others do as there are a lot of people that are there at different times to me.

If people want to ride, great. If they don't, great. If someone wants to just ride when the weather is just right and the stars are aligned, also great. If they don't want to ride at all? I'm sure most horse's think that is great.

I can think of far worse things for a horse than an well cared for but much loved, un-ridden pet.
 
Thank you. Everyone here has outlined how they spend time caring for their horse if they don't ride, and everyone has given valid reasons for keeping a non ridden horse. Markedly different from the situation I am viewing, which is basically turn out in spring and walk away. The yard ladies have asked the owners why they have five horses and don't do anything with them. The response is usually 'Oh I love them so much, couldn't possibly sell them on' which is fine, but seeing their horses hanging around the gate when the others are going out for hack just made us wonder whether they feel the lack of attention, whether ridden or not.
 
I also struggle with the ethics side of things. My horse is my last, I won't be getting another after she's gone. I find her fascinating though because she loves hacking and clearly benefits mentally from it. I can't say it isn't at a detriment to her health though, as she also used to love jumping. It was honestly all she ever wanted to do and she excelled at it. However, a few years ago I had to retire her from that due to arthritis (no doubt caused by all the jumping she did in her youth). If given the choice, she would still pull me towards a jump despite the pain it would no doubt cause her. She had so many fun years jumping, which benefited her mentally (and her fitness at the time), but it has now resulted in pain for her. Was that the right the decision for her? I don't know.

She also has not been worked in months due to a house move. Where we lived before was too dangerous to risk her life. I'm sure if I were on a livery yard some people would be asking why this keen, eager horse was not going out. The reason was that I simply didn't want to take her out on the road and she is retired from school work.

Who knows? I'm just trying my best and always learning.
 
Putting my 'ex-zoo keepers' hat on now....
Zoos put a lot of time and effort into enrichment programmes for animals in their care. If its a good zoo, the animals will have decent sized enclosures, food, fresh water and companionship, but sometimes thats not enough so efforts are made to increase mental stimulus for them. I appreciate that best of all, is to leave animals in their wild habitats, but thats simply not possible for a lot of species anymore, but enrichment programmes make a huge difference to their quality of life. It encourages them to use their instincts and their intellect.
Older and retired horses, and those with health issues aside, I see no reason why horses should miss out on this type of enrichment. They're not stupid (in fact, quite clever at times) and in my experience enjoy learning and new experiences. I remember riding on various different horses to a local hill top beauty spot and stopping to admire the view...I think every horse I took up there enjoyed the view as much as I did.
 
Highmileagecob said:
Thank you. Everyone here has outlined how they spend time caring for their horse if they don't ride, and everyone has given valid reasons for keeping a non ridden horse. Markedly different from the situation I am viewing, which is basically turn out in spring and walk away. The yard ladies have asked the owners why they have five horses and don't do anything with them. The response is usually 'Oh I love them so much, couldn't possibly sell them on' which is fine, but seeing their horses hanging around the gate when the others are going out for hack just made us wonder whether they feel the lack of attention, whether ridden or not.
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I don’t spend a huge amount of time with my horses and don’t do the day to day care (they are on full livery) but they are not reliant on me for company as they are turned out with friends. They have a social life that does not involve humans. Sometimes I like to just go and watch them in the field.
 
Do others think that for some, our connection to horses is very emotional? Even for those who are up there in the uppers echelons.

If you had a horsey family, or horses mean a lot to you, or you just had that natural affinity, it can just get under your skin and you’ll never tire of the smell, the feel, connection, the power, the awe. People do say it’s in your blood sometimes. I do believe that. It’s the core, the ethereal pull of horses.

On the surface though it can manifest any number of ways… the driven competitor, the breeder, the preserver of breeds, the preserver of tradition, the enthusiast, the saviour/rescuer, the happy hacker and just that person who can’t live without a shittie mowing the lawn.

Thank you for keeping the horse community alive, well, and still in the countryside and ensuring our rural trails, skills and traditions survive into this century. I’m sure councils, some farmers, probably all motorist bar a few would want us all gone.

Fight the fight, and no matter how or where your ideal of horse keeping takes you, keep fighting for horses everywhere.
 
It gets my goat when i see young healthy horses in situations where their owners are scared to ride them and they are on a livery yard on individual postage stamp turnout, then stuck in a stable for 18 hrs a day with zero enrichment. Young horses basically denied any outlet. Especially geldings. They need to play.
They need companionship and movement.
These owners think they are looking after them, no expense spared. But the poor horses are bored out of their brains and utterly miserable. Not fair to them.
 
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