Mare Stare
Well-Known Member
^This.
Why do rescue centres have so many useless horses?
- Thread starter LEC
- Start date
^This.
muddygreymare
Well-Known Member
To you they may be 'useless' but to others that's the kind of pony that they're looking for, so not useless to them. If it's happy and healthy, the horse deserves to live as far as i'm concerned, just because it may not be of use to one person or a group of similar people, isn't a reason to put the animal to sleep!
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
I dont think any horse in need should be turned away. Thats the point. If a charity is having to turn away horses that might be able to go on and lead productive lives (ridden or companion) because they are keeping horses that have no hope of being rehomed then perhaps the priorities need looking at.
In an ideal world all horses could be catered for but we dont live in an ideal world.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
I've often pondered the ethics of horse charities. Since I don't have any more of a problem with pts useless horses than I have a problem with sheep being killed to eat and make our numnahs I don't see why all the pointless horses need saving from slaughter.
Charities should be a stop gap for neglected horses with viable futures, but even then those horses would have a value as projects and could just be sold so I'm still not sold on the charities thing tbh.
Charities should be a stop gap for neglected horses with viable futures, but even then those horses would have a value as projects and could just be sold so I'm still not sold on the charities thing tbh.
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Spudlet
Well-Known Member
This guy was an emaciated rescue case, doubt he looked like he'd be any use. Yet with rehab and care, he's now ready for a new life:
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/rehoming/horse-profile.asp?id=408641
As B-2-B says, how can they tell what will be a ridden horse anyway if they are in a state? Or maybe they should just immediately shoot anything that looks like it may need more than a week's work?
http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/rehoming/horse-profile.asp?id=408641
As B-2-B says, how can they tell what will be a ridden horse anyway if they are in a state? Or maybe they should just immediately shoot anything that looks like it may need more than a week's work?
B_2_B
Well-Known Member
But surely that's irrelevant, if they are full they're full.
And again, just because they can't be rehomed doesn't make them useless!!
Whether the next horse in need is rideable or not it will have to be turned away if a charity is full.
In an ideal world there wouldn't be so many rescues full stop.
B_2_B
Well-Known Member
Exactly
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's usually extremely difficult to assess a rescue horses future.
Sometimes we think our horses (or other animals for that matter) won't get rehomed, they are with us for quite a while then someone comes along and falls in love and you know the rest.
siennamum
Well-Known Member
I suspect that whilst there is more indescriminate breeding leading to a surfeit of useless horses, there are also lots and lots of horses which once upon a time would have been PTS.
They now also live in limbo, in rescue centres, in dealing yards, at market and in the meatman's field, because at some point someone after having a few years fun on the horse decided it deserved a 2nd chance even though it was not rideable.
I really do think we should have an enormous cull and if some irresponsible owners accidentally were culled too then all the better.
They now also live in limbo, in rescue centres, in dealing yards, at market and in the meatman's field, because at some point someone after having a few years fun on the horse decided it deserved a 2nd chance even though it was not rideable.
I really do think we should have an enormous cull and if some irresponsible owners accidentally were culled too then all the better.
B_2_B
Well-Known Member
I think this is far too black and white again.
I don't think any of those other places are comparable to reputable rescue centres.
And I definitely don't think you can club all rescues into one group.
Some may keep horses in limbo yes.
All of our horses have a purpose, they are educators, teachers, therapists, helpers and they are far from useless.
Many charities "use" their horses and animals for promotion work, in therapy programmes and such.
Wagtail
Horse servant
So animals that are no use to us are less worthy of being cared for than horses that can be ridden?
Do you also think that old people and the disabled should have less money ploughed into their care than people who are young, fit and able bodied?kirstykate
Well-Known Member
I think the problem is overbreeding - not charities keeping companion ponies![/QUOTE]
Agree with this how many people breed from mares with issues, I cant do anything with it lets put it in foal, low and behold even more unrideable crap on the market
. Europe has got it right but I wont go into that, what a can of worms that would open
Agree with this how many people breed from mares with issues, I cant do anything with it lets put it in foal, low and behold even more unrideable crap on the market
. Europe has got it right but I wont go into that, what a can of worms that would open
millikins
Well-Known Member
A few years ago a friend got into dire financial straits through no fault of her own and was unable to afford her 7/8th Arab. He was fit, sound, lacked schooling but excellent hack, 10 yrs old. The rescue centres she tried advised her to have him pts as they were full and could only take in real "welfare" cases. The horse did end up being re homed via word of mouth but how crazy is this situation?
Enfys
Well-Known Member
Well said. It all comes down to individual cases in the end though.
I would PTS anyday rather than pass on to an overcrowded Charity. Rescues are for rescuing cruelty/neglect cases that have chance at recovering, I wouldn't hand off a mechanically unsound but otherwise healthy horse to them for them to maintain for another 10 years (taking up space and resources that a real rescue could benefit from) merely because it was of no use to me any longer. I looked into that once, for a going blind, but healthy 14 y.o, they recommended pts.
B-2-B does your centre turn away any horses, or ever advise owners to pts?
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ThePony
Well-Known Member
Totally this ^^.
I wonder if there would be as many 'donated' horses and abandoned rescues if the owners knew there was a chance they would be pts due to overstocking of horse charities and too many rescue cases? I wonder if more would step up to their responsibilities and either continue to home their horse or grow a pair and pts? Obviously that doesn't included the criminal cruelty cases, but more the abandoned horses by the road etc?
I do agree that there is a place for rescue centers to PTS some rescues so that they might admit more needy equines into their care for vet attention/rehoming or training/retirement or pts. I don't know enough about the horses entering rescue centers to even begin to work out on what aspects that could be worked out. Even if the horse goes into the rescue center and is then PTS, it is a much kinder end than it might have been without the rescue stepping in to do the humane thing.
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Flame_
Well-Known Member
Why didn't she just put it on Horsemart?
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
So animals that are no use to us are less worthy of being cared for than horses that can be ridden?
I don't think you can compare the elderly and disabled with horses...
When the 'useful' horses start coughing up money to pay for elderly human care, then perhaps we could have that conversation!!
AmyMay
Situation normal
But the horse wasn't a welfare case - so the situation was not crazy.
FleabittenT
Well-Known Member
Agree entirely.
Rescues are full of non-rideable, 'useless' horses because they are the group that are most often neglected.
It is 'problem' horses with behavioural issues / health issues etc that most often fall into the wrong hands, and become subjected to circumstances leading to their rescue / removal.
Obviously this is a generalisation, and I know there are many rescues who go to on to make fab allrounders, as many posts on this forum show
But yes - if/when resources become an issue, it is the more 'useful' horses that should be prioritised, IMO. I would rather a charity PTS than became overcrowded, ill-equipped and under resourced.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I don't think you can compare the elderly and disabled with horses...
When the 'useful' horses start coughing up money to pay for elderly human care, then perhaps we could have that conversation!!
I think you CAN compare the PRINCIPLE for the sake of the argument. OP is saying that useless horses are not as worthy of having charity care as 'useful' horses. I am applying that same argument to humans as obviously the OP cannot empathise with horses.
B_2_B
Well-Known Member
Well I don't have anything to do with these decisions and I don't know if PTS is ever advised, but yes we do turn away, because we have to.
We're very small with under 100 animals in total, 11 horses on site.
We get a lot of calls from people wanting us to give a retirement home (googles fault!) and they get told we are a rescue.
Depending on the story they'll get advised of their options and if we know of anyone looking for a horse we can put them in contact and things.
This Winter our fields have been very bad and we couldn't take any more in. I'm not aware of anyone asking us to, but unless it was a serious welfare case it'd be explained we're full and we'd try to help them find somewhere else.
We don't get very many calls generally, I would imagine the problem of having to turn away and make decisions is a lot more regular in a bigger rescue.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I disagree. The ultimate point of this is whether a rescue charity should PTS its 'useless' horses or keep them because they are as deserving of life as the useful ones.
You can't compare the 2 because a person would know they were going to be killed/put to sleep/ however you wish to phrase it, whereas the horse is not aware.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I think that Potters having a 9 week waiting list is not down to breeding its down to finances. Breeding would have started 4 years ago + for many of them so hardly a spur of the moment thing.
I totally agree with rescuing horses in a poor state but then decisions need to be taken about the long term. Is a 25 year companion horse/pony really a wise way to use resources when you could save a 8yo who is capable of being rehabbed, loaned and ridden?
I think we attach too many human emotions such as caring for old people, disabled etc which actually do not exist because horses do not have emotions, they do not have feelings and instead respond to direct stimulus.
BTW I have a rescue horse now in my care but it was never certain if he would ever become 'useful' but luckily he did!
I totally agree with rescuing horses in a poor state but then decisions need to be taken about the long term. Is a 25 year companion horse/pony really a wise way to use resources when you could save a 8yo who is capable of being rehabbed, loaned and ridden?
I think we attach too many human emotions such as caring for old people, disabled etc which actually do not exist because horses do not have emotions, they do not have feelings and instead respond to direct stimulus.
BTW I have a rescue horse now in my care but it was never certain if he would ever become 'useful' but luckily he did!
ThePony
Well-Known Member
But we aren't in a position where disabled or elderly humans are dying because there is no place they can go for care, shelter and food or for want of health attention - as far as I am aware?
When there are finite resources that are very close to being exceeded, or have already been exceeded then uncomfortable decisions need to be made. I feel we are getting close to that state with some animal charities, and the continuing financial issues many are experiencing, coupled with riseing feed costs can only increase the pressure facing these charities. The time to make hard decisions is now, not when horses desperatly in need are turned away.
millikins
Well-Known Member
Amymay, I agree he wasn't welfare, my friend had run out of time as well as money, but it seems appalling that resources are used up on elderly infirm animals but healthy young ones can die.
Mare Stare
Well-Known Member
I disagree. The ultimate point of this is whether a rescue charity should PTS its 'useless' horses or keep them because they are as deserving of life as the useful ones.
You can't compare the 2 because a person would know they were going to be killed/put to sleep/ however you wish to phrase it, whereas the horse is not aware.
Plus there is every possibility the elderly or disabled person has paid towards their care through tax throughout their working life.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I disagree. The ultimate point of this is whether a rescue charity should PTS its 'useless' horses or keep them because they are as deserving of life as the useful ones.
You can't compare the 2 because a person would know they were going to be killed/put to sleep/ however you wish to phrase it, whereas the horse is not aware.
Ah, that old chestnut again! The fact that a horse doesn't KNOW means that it doesn't matter that its life is snuffed out? Well there are many cases of people being killed and not having a clue about it. I hardly think the fact that they didn't know they were going to die and it happened so fast that they were totally unaware, makes it any less terrible that their life has been taken.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one as the argument always goes around in circles.
Wagtail
Horse servant
The fact that a horse may have worked extremely hard and given years of faithful service matters not a jot then?
AmyMay
Situation normal
Actually, again like Spoon, you are misunderstanding the role and work of rescue organisations.
An elderly, infirm animal is likely to be put down, actually.
Your friend had the responsibility of re-homing her horse - or putting it down. It's as simple as that. It was not the rescue organisations responsibility to to sort out her problem for her.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
This is where you are putting human feelings into everything - the horse has no idea about any of this they are just doing what they have been trained to do. They will be no happier alive or dead!
AmyMay
Situation normal
Unfortunately Wagtail always does this, which detracts from the overall rather interesting discussion and issues at hand.
Of course, there is absolutely no comparison between and elderly person and a horse.......