Why do so many people overhorse themselves?

Cortez

Cortez

Tough but Fair
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Just curious; how do so many people get themselves into this position - are they deluding themselves, taken advantage of or just innocent?
 
Personally and I see a lot of it... People think they are better than they are... They see the top riders riding big, strong and powerful warmbloods and thoroughbreds and think " if I buy one of them maybe I can ride as well as that". Truth is, most need a big flashy warmblood with a half dead beach donkeys demeanour. Recently had a very pretty, very flashy chestnut mare come into our yard to sell. A lovely but mareish sort, could do everything and to be frank the standard of people coming to view her was, well, worrying.

Our other chap that is for sale is similar stamp, very big, powerful, beautiful, flashy but extremely quirky. People will be requested to ride another horse prior to trying him to make sure that they are actually up to the job of managing him and not just thinking they are better than they are
 
And as an add to, to that comment, I think pride has a lot to do with it. I think people allow problems to escalate rather than asking for help. A simple, easily resolvable issue with a clever horse can soon turn dangerous
 
In my case i didn't try the horse out enough times. He wasn't a bad horse, just not suitable for what I wanted him for. I wanted to mainly hack and he wasn't good on the roads, I did hack him out before I bought him and he was a little spooky but nothing I couldn't handle. He just got dangerous out hacking so I sent him back, so in my case maybe I was stupid. And should have had more of a trial.
 
depends on a lot of circumstances i expect cortez

Some horses maybe genuinely are slightly misadvertised or less of the novice ride they were thought to be and then people try to cope with their lack of experience dealing with it.

some riders have only ridden school 'plods' (for want of a better word) their confidence is sky high thinking all horses are that easy and they over estimate their abilities when buying their own and end up with something that comes as a complete shock to them

some people are genuinely lied to by unscrupulous sellers and some people buy something for their ego because its 'flashy'.
 
Cortez said:
Just curious; how do so many people get themselves into this position - are they deluding themselves, taken advantage of or just innocent?
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all of the above! there will always be those who want a flashy horse to make them look good , there will always be sellers willing to lie through their teeth to get shot of a problem horse and there will always be horses who will test a new rider and if they find them lacking turn into downright hooligans.
The joy of the internet is that we now get to hear about it so it seems to be more prevalent.
 
I don't know the answer to this, but have just bought a 15hh Arab and have been very worried about people saying he is too small for me. As I'm only 5'4" that's unlikely but I have noticed a trend for these big monsters since I started riding again! To each his own, but I like my horses like I like my cars. Nippy and manoeuvreable! I rode a friend's 16.3 ISH and canter made me feel like I was going back in time.
 
Personally I think a lot of it is keeping up with the Joneses.

I've known so many people who've bought big flashy warmblood or tb types when all they do is walk round the block twice a week, which is fine I suppose each to their own but the trouble is they often end up too scared to ride these beasts, but won't buy a nice happy hacker confidence giving cob because the fellow liveries might turn their noses up at it, or it's not cool enough.
 
I also blame programmes like Monty Roberts and Parelli do. They make it look so easy and don't show you the hours of work that went into preparing the horse beforehand. I know of at least one numpty who believed she would be a master horse trainer after watching a few of these shows.
 
My big lad is the result of 2 people that overhorsed themselves and then branded him evil.

He's far from evil, just needs someone to lay firm boundaries and reinforce them from time to time. He's been back with me for 4 years now and he is absolutely angelic.

I love him to pieces, I can put anyone on him, from complete beginner never been sat on a horse upwards. 4 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of putting a complete beginner on him.

In the wrong hands though he is a bit of a nutter, bolts, bucks etc. I couldn't ever part with him again because I wouldn't dare chance he ended up in the wrong home again.

The second person who had him actually decided it must be him not her situation or ability and so bought a coloured version of him after I advised her to get a cobby type she could pick up and put down. Funnily enough the coloured one did the same lol.

She now has a lovely Shire x that she adores and gets on with brilliantly.

Some people just have to learn the hard way.
 
It's a situation I see time and time again. I am often asked for help/ advice and really it's impossible to tell people the truth without upsetting and offending them. But
90% of the time it is too much
horse for not enough rider. I'm afraid I've taken to passing the buck and advising a good regular
instructor to avoid being the one to say nothing can be done for that rider with that particular calibre of horse.
 
I think also people don't realise how much work the more thoroughbred types are. They go out hacking and schooling 4 times a week and consider their horse in medium work when in reality they are in low work really. Hardly breaking a sweat. A lot of the problem horses I see should be out hunting 5 times a week and maybe eventing at the weekends. Massive powerful and intelligent creatures.
 
scrunchie said:
I also blame programmes like Monty Roberts and Parelli do. They make it look so easy and don't show you the hours of work that went into preparing the horse beforehand. I know of at least one numpty who believed she would be a master horse trainer after watching a few of these shows.
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Oh no, you've mentioned the dreaded 'P' word!!!
 
Cortez said:
Just curious; how do so many people get themselves into this position - are they deluding themselves, taken advantage of or just innocent?
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All of these, plus overambitious parents often think their child needs to be on a bigger horse to keep up with their friends, adults get told they need something, bigger, faster, more flashy in order to do more.

Sellers exaggerate what the horse has done or does not do in order to sell, they are often guilty of over estimating their own abilities also.

One persons "safe, bombproof, allrounder" is frequently more likely to be "uneducated, unfit, done very little" , I think this category is the hardest to define and most sought after in reality and is often totally mis-sold.
 
Because they over estimate their own ability. Whether that's their riding & training ability, or simply overestimating their ability to buy without experienced help. And a small % who are genuinely conned, either by extremely clever sellers, or their experienced second opinions. I've certainly met more than one person who'll recommend an unsuitable horse in order to drum up business training them after, or are equally clueless themselves.
 
I bought mine as a youngster. I looked at her breeding and thought she was going to be similar to other horses I know of that had very similar breeding (you could put a 10-year-old kid on a 4-year-old horse). One thing I COMPLETELY forgot was that they were geldings, and she's a mare. I can't believe I didn't think about that. Have since figured out that geldings of that breeding seem to have gorgeous manners, but the mares are... different.

Stupid on my part!!!
 
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I'll be starting to look for my first horse in 6 months time ish. In order not to overhorse myself, my lessons are going to get a lot more boring. The horses I am riding for an hour a week with an instructor are quite powerful and well educated. In order to get a horse that it is safe for me to catch from the field early in the morning when no one else is at the yard or go hacking alone, it will be a lot quieter, less powerful, more bred for the plough.

I'm happy for my hour a week with my instructor to become far less impressive for the sake of feeling safe doing everything routine with the horse myself, unsupervised. But i don't struggle to understand people who buy the sort of horse they're riding every week.

Would i want to buy the best horse i ride regularly at the moment? No. She is beautiful and has the most balanced paces i have ever sat on and almost never puts a foot wrong. But i know for a fact she often spends most of the walk to and from her field on her back legs. Is that going to ruin my confidence after a month of dealing with it on my own? How many RIs are honest about the disadvantages of their best horses? Would i necessarily notice that if i went to view that horse?

In 15 years riding other people's horses and about 10 RIs I have seen many times and built up a relationship with, one has actually said "You shouldn't own a horse like this, because it only goes nicely for you because better riders keep it schooling nicely and show it the boundaries".
 
mIXTURE. HAd a long break from horses.Returned! Fool that I am.Bought a Highland who I was assured was suitable for a nervous novice.My then riding school instructor would not come and see horses with me.He turned out to be very spooky and sharp.What I had thought was a private sale was not.Eventually enter my lovely current instructor.Sold Highland (honestly and to a good home and lost money!) I promised myself I would only buy next horse if instructor liked it for me.Went to see one advertized as a snaffle mouthed in all discipline and a complete gentleman.s.The dealer tried to put a dutch gag in and was suprised that I spotted it!!! Instructor arrived and tried.Said spooky, sharp and a bit nappy.Tried another one from a well known local dealer with a good reputation! Instructor said conformation so bad would not be able to do even the low level dressage I wanteds to do.She also told me later that she had been to see another horse from said dealer for another client.It stumbles a lot she said.Instructor said it dished that badly she was suprised it could stand upright!Eventually found my lovely boy.Private sale.Teenage owner loved him but was bored by him.I adore him.He cost quite a lot of money for what he was but was worth every penny.
 
I also think that in some cases, people are not prepared to pay for patent safety. They see an unschooled ex racehorse or youngster and think they are getting a bargain. Bargains are only that if you have the expertise to realise their potential - like most things that takes a load of effort and experience to make it look as easy as it does on the telly.
 
Big aspersions maybe

I've got a lovely big WB with an attitude to live that means hes flashy when needs be but can relax and have a chill in the periods i can;t right.

But the lady who imported him as her 1st horse took on too much but on the plus side this is how i came by him so I can't complain.:D
 
AnneCam said:
Would i want to buy the best horse i ride regularly at the moment? No. She is beautiful and has the most balanced paces i have ever sat on and almost never puts a foot wrong. But i know for a fact she often spends most of the walk to and from her field on her back legs. Is that going to ruin my confidence after a month of dealing with it on my own? How many RIs are honest about the disadvantages of their best horses? Would i necessarily notice that if i went to view that horse?
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I think this is a very important point, I think the type to overhorse themselves are novicey people, or first time buyers.

(not meaning to put you in this category Annecam and you sound like you are being very sensible about your first horse)

They are the people who don't look past how the horse is to ride, they are the people who don't look at the horse as a whole. They assume because the horse is good to ride it must be good to handle. Time and again I have seen people who have said they're an angel to ride but I am frightened on the ground.
 
This drives me INSANE. I had a livery who bought an ex polo pony, TB straight off the pitch. After two years she decided he was dangerous and wouldn't ever be rideable, so she sold him for pittance to someone who has just taken him to the Polocrosse national champs and won best pony, having owned him for less than a year.

She then bought a cob and had the same problem. He was a 5yr old who hadn't done much, and because she only rode once every few weeks, and pumped him full of conditioning mix and haylage, he was fresh and a bit silly. She used to take the reins off her bridle and ride him with JUST draw reins...that made me want to strangle her. After a few months, she decided HE was dangerous and sold him to someone who is now competing him BS very successfully. She's now looking for an ex racehorse straight off the track.... I'm very glad I don't have to have anything to do with it any more.

I have a current livery who had a lovely schoolmaster, who was perfect for her as she has only been riding for five years. Someone told her she needed a "challenge" and that she should sell the schoolmaster and buy a youngster.

Bad idea. This woman still doesn't know what diagonals are, so the new horse is 6yrs old and has no idea what the aid for canter is, let alone how to move in a balanced way. She saws on his mouth to "get him on the bit" and spends a fortune on back people to try and help his disunited canter.... funnily enough, when myself or my OH ride him, he canters beautifully and isn't disunited. He's lovely, but he needs real riding. You can't let him get away with anything, and it does take time to get him going in a relaxed way, balanced enough and with enough impulsion to work properly.

Luckily this livery is really sweet and has taken on board what I've said to her, and has stopped jumping for now in favour of sorting out the problems on the flat.


I hate seeing horses in the wrong hands, it makes me so sad.
 
I think another factor could genuinely be that people have different versions of 'safe' and 'novice'.
After all, what one person considers safe may not be safe for another person. For example, my current boy is vastly safer compared to my previous horse and I class him as such. Yes he may be green, nervous, flighty, quick as lightening and he has been known to have the odd bunny hop rear and typical youngster tantrum however he has a sweet heart and isn't going to try and kill his rider (at least not on purpose ;))
To me he is pretty safe, however to the everyday person he is far from it!

The same goes for being a novice, there are competent novices and then there are what we call turnips. These tend to be the clueless and idiotic novices who ignore all professional advice (apart from that of our dear friend Pat..) and ye haw round on their horse as they see fit.

...Then they cry and have a tantrum when they get ditched and a face full of dirt as it was clearly the horses fault and the only way to solve it is to chase the poor animal around with a certain vegetable-inspired stick and hunker it down with draw reins and strong bits. :rolleyes:
 
Main issue is that there really is a lack of good horses for sale. I think the good ones just go word of mouth. I couldn't find a single thing to view local enough to take someone with me - if I hadn't known what questions to ask on the phone I might but even the ones that looked good on paper had evasive sellers.

So in the end I bought a nice natured, unspoilt youngster and put her in livery where she would be ridden by a professional daily. But yes I got dumped on Tuesday and I guess you could say I'm overhorsed.

But you know you see an awful lot of threads by people who bought what on paper should have been a perfect horse and have got something dangerous or sick. At least my girl is just green.

Paula
 
Moobucket said:
A lot of the problem horses I see should be out hunting 5 times a week and maybe eventing at the weekends. Massive powerful and intelligent creatures.
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Hunting 5 times a week? :confused: What?

Some people seem to buy the horse they'd like to be able to ride, which isn't necessarily one they can ride now. I don't think everyone has the same definition of 'overhorsed' though; it has nothing to do with the size and breed of the horse, just that they are 'too much' for the rider's capabilities. I always find it amusing when anyone looking for a first horse on here is recommended to 'buy a cob', because of course all cobs are slow and ploddy :D The ones who are slow and ploddy I wouldn't even class as ideal for a novice, they can teach you some very bad habits indeed! Many are as far from slow and ploddy as you can get :D

I do find it a shame that true schoolmasters are vastly underrated, the confidence and experience such a beastie can give is amazing! :)
 
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Moobucket said:
I think also people don't realise how much work the more thoroughbred types are. They go out hacking and schooling 4 times a week and consider their horse in medium work when in reality they are in low work really. Hardly breaking a sweat. A lot of the problem horses I see should be out hunting 5 times a week and maybe eventing at the weekends. Massive powerful and intelligent creatures.
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Yep -although things are rarely black and white, this was more or less me!! Check out my signature!!!! Thank god I FINALLY got it right!:D
 
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LollyDolly said:
I think another factor could genuinely be that people have different versions of 'safe' and 'novice'.
After all, what one person considers safe may not be safe for another person. For example, my current boy is vastly safer compared to my previous horse and I class him as such. Yes he may be green, nervous, flighty, quick as lightening and he has been known to have the odd bunny hop rear and typical youngster tantrum however he has a sweet heart and isn't going to try and kill his rider (at least not on purpose ;))
To me he is pretty safe, however to the everyday person he is far from it!

The same goes for being a novice, there are competent novices and then there are what we call turnips. These tend to be the clueless and idiotic novices who ignore all professional advice (apart from that of our dear friend Pat..) and ye haw round on their horse as they see fit.

...Then they cry and have a tantrum when they get ditched and a face full of dirt as it was clearly the horses fault and the only way to solve it is to chase the poor animal around with a certain vegetable-inspired stick and hunker it down with draw reins and strong bits. :rolleyes:
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This is a very good point actually and one that I stupidly had not though of... What is safe? My tb, who up until march, I was still training to point to point, is an absolute superstar, even whilst in race training. He is a dope on a role pretty much. My novice (not turnip!) husband hacked him out a lot and even jumped in over cross poles in the school. I do deem him completely safe, however, he could have his jig jaggy moments. A memorable one, he was babysitting me on a youngster who kept reversing into him. Now to be fair, he didn't actually DO anything wrong, other than pop his ears back and jig jog to get away from him. Husband then decided he wasn't 'safe'... So is anything truly safe?

I think half the problem is that when people like myself get so many, genuinely green, naughty, mis-labeled and young animals through the yard, one persons 'safe' is another ones nightmare. We describe our Coblet as safe, ie, the none riding mother has ridden her but she can spook and take the mickey if allowed. So is she 'safe'. She is to us as she doesn't rear over backwards, bolt into fences and is a pleasant animal to be around but then maybe we see so many results of over horsing that our perception of safe has changed.
 
I had my own ponies as a kid, after a long break I rode at riding schools before sharing and buying my own.
The riding schools were a bit of a revelation, the 'advanced' lesson was not much beyond can walk trot and canter and not fall off at a crosspole. Without any real context people genuinely thought the were advanced riders. They also didn't appreciate the difference between riding a slightly challenging horse in an indoor school with an instructor and riding that same horse in a variety of situations without any help.

Take my current horse, (didn't go looking for an ex racer but ended up with one). He is incredibly laid back, calm and confident. Anyone looking at him would think how easy he is but he is also capable of taking advantage of a less confident person and it would go downhill very quickly. Then he'd be the subject of one of those my new horse isn't as described threads.
 
All those things already said. I am a novice rider with just over a years riding experience but I know of so many of these situations where, as someone put it, 'too much horse for too little riding ability' . I sometimes ride my friend's horse who has never never played up with me yet with my friend he's spooky, bucks her off regularilly and is generally uncooperative. It's like we ride a totally different horse. I hate seeing her ride him as she nags scolds pulls and boots him constantly. Problem is he's her first horse. She never had any formal riding lessons and went from riding a careful old shire plod who seems to have convinced her she could ride, to a five year old cob who is very green. He's not a bad lad, just lacks schooling and is young, but he's managed to scare a couple of other riders and is fast heading towards being labelled difficult and dangerous.
I dont know what to do about it anymore as I just feel so sorry for the horse and friend does not seem to listen to what I say. Just how long does it take someone like this to ruin a horse?
I don't own a horse by the way as I consider myself far too inexperienced to do so just yet.
 
Different ideas on 'safe' wouldn't be an issue though if people stopped overestimating their ability to buy without experienced help & advice. My 14.2 is safe by anyone's standards, but if some numpty adult got on & started socking her mouth or kicking she would dump them. And has. I'd also class other horses as safe that most would deem nutters. But if I'm helping someone buy, I buy safe for them, whatever the level they are at. Unfortunately, many inexperienced buyers don't bother with this & plough straight in on the 'safe' part.
 
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