Why do so many people overhorse themselves?

See my lad is far too big for me and yes he bothers me sometimes when he puts all 4 feet together, humps his back and leaps in the air and yes sometimes I wonder if I took on too much. Some days he won't put a foot wrong. Thing is I genuinely think he likes being mine. He's far worse with 'better' riders on a bad day and he tries so hard so maybe by ur terms I am not over horsed as he is just too big and i'm too nervous. In ability terms we seem ok. Does that mean I have to stop being bothered by him when he's silly now?! ;-)
 
I don't know. Seems like a whole big thing doesn't it? Overhorsed? Can be a combo of seller and buyer. And then of course no one is honest with themselves. No matter how good you are, you have weaknesses. This includes even upper level riders. Look at when these types of horses are sold. Sometimes they never get back to being as good and sometimes horses that never quite become good horses in one pro's barn do in another. So if you can remember that you might start being a little more honest with yourself. I know I am. Plus if you've never owned or always owned one horse, hard to judge the good skills you actually have vs weaknesses. Big cold horses are not my specialty. Make no mistake I'm not talking about dead school horses. Just ones that need lots of leg and seat. I like horses that are quick and sensitive. I love mares. I have TB's and TB/ Warmblood crosses. Previous to owning horses I galloped at the track and now I start young horses for a living. Trust me I have weaknesses that I work on daily. We never stop learning.

Fitness. I have found that people really never understand this concept. My big warmblood mare out of a TB mare takes very little to get fit. If someone were to lunge daily before riding they'd find themselves with a very fit horse very quick. So if I have a day struggling with something, I go back and do something easy and finish on a good note. Next day the problem isn't a struggle. My husband has an ISH with very little blood. He needs much more work to get fit and actually stay fit. So knowing each individual horse from a fitness perspective needs addressed too. I like horses that are simple to get and stay fit for the job at hand. This way I'm concentrating on quality over quantity. I could never ride more girls an hour per day for SJ. No point tapping reserves I don't need.

Feeding. New horse, possibly your first, of course you want to give them the best. I used to be in this category too and should have clearly known better. Mine live on near enough scrub grazing and get a handful of food with vits and mins! The ISH needs more food to keep him going. He will be hunting though.

If you find yourself Overhorsed, it doesn't have to be the end of the world. Get and pay for quality help. Take lessons on other horses to give yourself some confidence again. Cut back on feed. Horses really require very little for most endeavours. Learn fitness of your individual horse and what exactly you will be needing. Don't overwork. Leads to more problems. It's all a balancing act.

Terri
 
I think this problem is commoner than it used to be for three reasons. Firstly the riding schools are so at risk of being sued they only have horses that are kickalongs. So the jump from riding school to owning your own is bigger than it has ever been.

Second reason is that people forget that a horse is an intelligent, living being and that every time they are ridden they learn something new. There's an expectation, especially among novice owners, that if they buy a quiet, well schooled horse it should remain quiet and well schooled, no matter what they do with it. Written down the nonsense of that belief is startlingly clear yet it is very widely held. Threads from people who bought a lovely horse and find themselves with an unruly badly behaved horse a few weeks later crop up daily. These people always blame the seller for "lying" and "conning them". Yet it's almost certainly the way they have handled and ridden the horse since they bought it that has caused the problems. A horse is never a finished article. It is always the result of the food it has eaten and the schooling it has received in the past couple of weeks.

The third reason is that it takes years to school a horse to be kind and quiet and forgiving enough to cope with a novice rider. Years of schooling costs many thousands of pounds yet people expect to get a safe first horse for £2-3000. That simply isn't economically viable which is why no one has a business based on producing horses for novices.

If you are looking for your first horse you have to be honest with yourself about what you can cope with and how well you are going to keep up the schooling on the horse you buy. If you don't think you can school a horse and make them a better horse because you've ridden them then you aren't ready to own your own yet.
 
There is another reason I ended up overhorsed. Many years ago we had to sell my pony to a dealer in his teens to a dealer due to a combination if 'A' levels and ill health. I desperately wish we hadn't and never knew what happened to him, but my parents did the best they could at the time.

So I really didn't want to buy a horse I'd have to sell as a teenager if something happened to me. I wanted something that I felt would be get a good home.

Stupid thing is I now know a nice safe cob would probably have fitted that bill - however, that said, they are pretty few and far between.

Paula
 
I think FfionWinnie has given the most accurate definition of being over horsed by far.
There are lots of reasons why people find themselves in this situation, but recognising that it is a fact is vital for horse and rider.
If in doubt, FW's short post should answer the question completely.
Very clearly put FW.
 
There are many reasons why people end up over horsed and often its not one single factor, more a combination of factors.

Firstly people judge their experience level by how long they have been riding. Riding the same horse for 10 years round the same 3 hack routes does not make you experienced.

Riding schools give people seriously inflated ideas about their ability.

Far too many inexperienced people are producing youngsters badly.

They buy a horse thats working 6 days a week then expect it to remain the same on just a 30 minute hack at walk twice a week.

The experts people take with them to view horses are often far too inexperienced to be of use.

But the biggest issue I see is how people try a horse. having spent far too many years helping people buy and sell horses the one thing that stands out time and agian is that people dont ask very much of the horse during the viewings.
This is compounded by the 'expert' also trying to show how well they ride.
When I view a horse for someone I will certainly find out how well it can go but then comes my real job.
FIND OUT WHAT IT DOES WHEN RIDDEN BADLY. I will delibrately unbalance the horse, ride with reins far too short, too long, clamp legs on, drop horse on approach to fence. All the sort of things that will happen once this horse is home.
Problem is the experts are often far too concerned with looking good rather than exploring the horses reaction to less than perfect riding.
 
At first view of me with my horse a lot would think I am over horsed, in fact with both of them but I bought them both as relatively unhandled 2 year olds, and have done everything with them, neither are of course my first horses, but they always seem to grow bigger then the anticipated heights and I actually now feel fine on my big lads and find sitting on smaller horses or ponies really uncomfortable and strange. I dislike people sitting looking at photos saying "Oh see he/she is overhorsed"
Also this stigma of eventers/TBs/WBs being nutty and really forward... My friend says her 1* eventer feels like a lazy plod after one of my big chaps ;)
 
I think being over horsed is a combination of the rider, the horse & the amount of backup they have. As a 50 something year old who only has time to ride once a week, but likes powerfully built, horses with big paces & a quick brain, I think I'm pretty much always 'technically' over-horsed. However, I always keep my horses at at livery yards where I can get a lot of help / training, so it has never been an issue.

My current mare lives out (her preference), is schooled / hacked for me midweek, goes jumping (which she loves) with my teenage daughter & is ridden by me once a week (in a lesson with my trainer). I'm sure that, if I didn't have the amount of backup I have, she would be far too much for me but, as it is, she's perfect. I have to ride her correctly (or she will run rings around me) but, when I get it right, the feeling is unbelievable.
 
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It is not always that a person is out of control on a horse. Sometimes over horsing can mean that they just cannot work it properly to get the best performance out of the horse. Often it is these people who don't even realise it. I think they watch good riders riding these fabulous expressive warmbloods and think that this is how they look on their own fabulous warmblood...erm no.
 
I think there are many reasons for people overhorsing themselves. The majority of the time I do think that people buy the wrong horse for the job, if they are happy just pootling about the countryside with just the odd show then they don't really need that huge warmblood that they want to view.

Also inexperienced parents, I know of at least one instance where a novice nine year old was bought a 3 year old part tb. Luckily they sought professional help and the pony was generally good natured so it was eventually a successful outcome, but a shame that a nine year old missed out on all the proper 'fun' stuff because her pony was just too young.

A lot of people nowadays simply don't have the time to regualrly work their horses and yet will buy one that needs consistant work, or they will expect it to behave impeccably out on a hack when it hasn't seen the outside of a school for six months.

I also think that while conformation and breeding are important, people may overlook temperament in the equation, I'd rather have something that was slightly less than perfect conformation wise, (not hideously wrong though) that had a good temperament for a novice than a beautifully put together bad tempered flighty beast.

As PM said, it is no good trialling horses without them being ridden as they will be by the novice rider.

It has nothing to do with size either, one of the worst I rode was only 12.2, but could nap, buck, rear and spin like a good un! It was definitely a superglue backside job! :D
 
This is a great thread; many wise opinions and clearly, there is no single answer - it's a combination of so many different things.

For me there are 2 biggies though:

1. buying a horse on the strength of even a reasonable couple of try-out sessions will never give you the full picture of its character and temperament

2. it's a totally different experience having a horse on livery (even on part or full) than riding at a riding school. One of the biggest and most important things you suddenly are not guaranteed, is company to ride out with - that sensible horse whose example your new/young horse can follow.
 
dorito said:
This is a great thread; many wise opinions and clearly, there is no single answer - it's a combination of so many different things.

For me there are 2 biggies though:

1. buying a horse on the strength of even a reasonable couple of try-out sessions will never give you the full picture of its character and temperament

2. it's a totally different experience having a horse on livery (even on part or full) than riding at a riding school. One of the biggest and most important things you suddenly are not guaranteed, is company to ride out with - that sensible horse whose example your new/young horse can follow.
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I agree. I run a livery yard where no one has hacked out in over a year because no one has a sensible horse to accompany others. I sadly lost my ID gelding who was everyone's nanny a couple of years ago, and both my other horses are currently field ornaments. We are in desparate need of a nice sensible plod that everyone can go out with. But everyone here has temperamental warmbloods that need a sensible lead horse for hacking. :(
 
I've seen it happen for people's first horse a lot. I think it depends on people's backgrounds too.

For example: you have lessons at a riding establishment, riding a big horse, then it doesn't feel such a jump buying something as big - because you have 'proven' you can ride a horse of that size etc. . . however, when it comes to you buying a horse of that type and size and you're riding it an hour a day, not the 6 hours a day the horse in the school was being ridden for you end up with a fresher horse. People can scared of handling them on the ground - for example a 15hh horse in wind and rain can sometimes grow to 16/17hh, a 16hh horse will grow to 17/18hh. Then imagine when that horse tries to test you out when riding it. Can be VERY different when you're no longer in that riding school establishment.

Other times, I think it can be to do with the fact that you are used to riding horses. I know people who got put on everyone's naughty ponies and then think, wow, I'm great, then go and get a horse of their own and suddenly everything is different - the striding, the feel, the way you ride. Ponies change the way you ride, horses you have to ride them much more particular.

And others it's keeping up appearances. Wanting what everyone else has - wanting the best.

I've done the full works - I have started off riding ponies, then a 15hh horse and moved straight up to 16.2hh and even with years of riding it was a big jump, but I was prepared to have lessons and perhaps if people don't have time/money for getting help then that's when problems arise?
 
Faracat said:
Wow - that is quite shocking.
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I know. I miss it so much. We have miles of off road hacking but have to cross a fast A road to get to it. If it wasn't for the road, then we would risk it, but it's just not worth it without having a nice sensible horse to go with.
 
I overhorsed myself with the last horse I bought.

He was stunning, beautiful and my dream horse to own and ride.

99% of the time we were absolutely fine. But I couldn't hunt or compete him because I simply wasn't up to the job, and he was too much horse for me in those environments. Nothing wrong with him, purely my own inadequacies.

No way I could have known this when I bought him.
 
amymay said:
I overhorsed myself with the last horse I bought.

He was stunning, beautiful and my dream horse to own and ride.

99% of the time we were absolutely fine. But I couldn't hunt or compete him because I simply wasn't up to the job, and he was too much horse for me in those environments. Nothing wrong with him, purely my own inadequacies.

No way I could have known this when I bought him.
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I think hunters are the hardest thing to buy , what people like to hunt is so personal so trying the horse at the hounds is the only way to be sure you get it right and the country affects the horses suitability a horse great over country where they gallop on and jump big hedges can be unsuitable for a country where you have to queue and jump upright timber a lot .
 
In most cases it's pure vanity.

I have bought a big warmblood but I'm not sure why I did, although I'm a tall, experienced, confident rider she nearly crippled me in a nasty accident. I've gone back to what I know - native crosses and am having an absolute ball.
 
I have been on the verge of doing this - several times. The latest horse I bought has fantastic paces and a phenomenal jump. He is also a very green quirky 8 year old WB and absolutely the very top end of what I can ride. If I can turn him around, he will be incredible and the best horse I have ever owned. I could not afford a horse of this calibre "ready made". However I am prepared for the long haul and have been working with a pro rider / trainer to get the most out of me and him.
I am not inexperienced, this is not my first horse and all the horses I have bought in the last few years have been younger, just backed horses that I have trained on to be sensible, solid all rounders. Each one has brought its own challenges and each one has taught me something new. So why do it?? I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy bring horses on and enjoy watching the progress that each one makes and celebrate each milestone that we achieve. On the other hand I know when I need to call in more experienced help and am not too proud to think I know it all.
 
Goldenstar said:
I think hunters are the hardest thing to buy , what people like to hunt is so personal so trying the horse at the hounds is the only way to be sure you get it right and the country affects the horses suitability a horse great over country where they gallop on and jump big hedges can be unsuitable for a country where you have to queue and jump upright timber a lot .
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He was a man's hunter, pure and simple. I just couldn't hold him.

However, had I had a bit more guts about me, I'd have taken him more than a couple of times, allowed us to find our 'rhythm' together and we'd probably have been fine.

I was just too much of a coward (and had thought I was rather a better rider than I was)......
 
I was overhorsed when I got my horse on loan. Didn't even ride him before properly as they didn't have a saddle that fitted. He had been in a field for 3 years and was a bit green - in that he had forgotten his job. But I wanted him.

When the saddler came the first time she thought we would never last (told me since) and that it would all end in tears as he was so rude.

But I am determined and I knew from the start that I would need to continue lessons. Gradually got him fit with lots of ground work and then had 3 lessons a week. Had RI school him once a week and more experienced friend hacked him out 1-2 times a week for about a year. I fell off quite a bit, got back on and kept going. He was bucking in canter through excitement so I took him into our big field every night for 10 days, asked for canter at the bottom, held on and kicked him on, again and again and again. Until I could sit it and it was less exciting. Now we are great - do loads together and he is the escort hack on the yard for nervous riders and young horses. He is a star now.

But it took a lot of work. I had to accept that I needed help to improve my own riding and to improve him and I had needed the bottle and the determination to do the work.

Think it is very easy to find yourself overhorsed, much more difficult to accept it and do something about it - whether that is improving yourself or rehoming the horse.
 
I have to admit that I bought my old boy waaaay before I was ready for his type (I was 18 and straight off ponies). He wasa 3yo 3/4 TB 1/4 trek and as sharp as hell. After many many years of blood (mainly mine!) sweat and tears he turned into the most fabulous quiet push button chap and I sold him when I fell pregnant 12 years ago.

My latest girlie is a gorgeous show cob type who is certainly no slouch but sensible, not sharp and just a lovely person to be around. I learnt my lesson but it is very easy to fall for that "exciting" type!
 
SadKen said:
I don't know the answer to this, but have just bought a 15hh Arab and have been very worried about people saying he is too small for me. As I'm only 5'4" that's unlikely but I have noticed a trend for these big monsters since I started riding again! To each his own, but I like my horses like I like my cars. Nippy and manoeuvreable! I rode a friend's 16.3 ISH and canter made me feel like I was going back in time.
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Totally agree on every point. Plus they are cheaper to run and you can get back on them from the ground if you have to dismount on a hack. Having done the equivalent to the clean and jerk putting a saddle on a 17.1hh when I'm only 5'4" too which nearly gave me a rupture :) I was supremely grateful mine was just over 15.1hh.
 
Ego is one! I can ride an array of horses at home, but the best is a welsh sec d gelding who will jump anything, can outclass alot of warmbloods/TB in dressage and is always sound. But can we sell him, no because people want big and trust me big is not always better!

So next week I am on hound excercise, so will I take my 17.3 TB or the 14.2 Welsh Sec D? My ego says the big TB but my brain says the welsh will be the best all rounder who will give me the best ride and will come home sound!
 
Reminds me of girl at past livery yard. Had dressage lessons on her welsh d. She used to rave on how good instructor was & how she was telling her she was brilliant & working at intermediate level. Funnily enough she kept paying for more expensive lessons, people want to hear what they like. Ended up ruining horse as so heavy in hand, double bridle, big use of spurs, that it just kept rearing.

Also think riding schools a problem with new owners, as they think because they can ride tired horse they're good. They have their place, & do loads of good, but they should be realistic in advice for clients looking to buy.

I did learn in a school, but took an elderly schoolmistress (19) on loan for 2 years (she taught me the ropes), before I bought her, then progressed. Was realistic about how much I didn't know.

My arab mare is a schoolmistress in that you could not ride her for months, & she would be exactly how you expect when you got on again (bouncy). She doesn't rear, buck or spin. She is, however, very sensitive to the leg, weight, hand, & needs someone with the confidence not to hang onto her but give rein to relax her. Right person she doesn't put a foot wrong. Wrong person, she's gone.

Once let friend ride her in school, who was used to a brain dead plod. Ride lasted few seconds, rider on floor horse doing wall of death around outside. Horse had moved off sharper than she was used to & she had snatched up reins & clamped on legs at same time. I've ridden her through bush that was on fire, as it was our only exit. That girl's as brave as a lion when you need her, trust her totally.
 
Wagtail said:
I agree. I run a livery yard where no one has hacked out in over a year because no one has a sensible horse to accompany others. I sadly lost my ID gelding who was everyone's nanny a couple of years ago, and both my other horses are currently field ornaments. We are in desparate need of a nice sensible plod that everyone can go out with. But everyone here has temperamental warmbloods that need a sensible lead horse for hacking. :(
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Gosh Wagtail, i find this completely shocking! How many liveries do you have? Are you seriously saying that none of the horse's are ridden outside a school? Do they compete?

Where abouts are you? My 15 yr old daughter hacks out daily on her own or in company on any of our three. Maybe i could make some money hiring her out as a nanny to over-horsed, middle aged ladies on expensive warmbloods :-)
 
amymay said:
He was a man's hunter, pure and simple. I just couldn't hold him.

However, had I had a bit more guts about me, I'd have taken him more than a couple of times, allowed us to find our 'rhythm' together and we'd probably have been fine.

I was just too much of a coward (and had thought I was rather a better rider than I was)......
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It's just so hard to get hunters that suit when you hunt you can be on the horse five hours or more it's vital you enjoy it.
My OH has an ID he a good looking horse and much admired I hate hunting him he's to lumbering for me I twitch a thigh at one of my horses and they react Frank won't notice he just does is own thing my OH loves him and they have great fun together .
Someone said to me once and persons unruly tear away is an other dream hunter that's so true .
I hate hunters that are strong in the hand I just get exhausted and bored .
 
I bought a 16.3 tb as a first horse - possibly not the best idea in the world. I wasnt the best rider in the world, but could manage. However what was in my favour was that I have been around animals all of my life, and can manage them very well.

The horse was kept on a livery yard where there were instructors etc. Having said that the horse was very bidable (even if he did have a naughty streak), and was easy to deal with.

However I do know of people that think they are better than they are. They have ridden the naughty ones at current riding school and think they are a good rider. Go to a new riding school and then on "experience" put expert. Try pointing out that they are not an expert, and me with far more experience has ticked intermediate, but wont have it.
 
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