Why the hell is Pentathlon an Olympic sport?

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MissMincePie&Brandy

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I thought the Olympics was a showcase of the best athletes in the world, something that everyone else should look up to and admire or even to aspire to...

So what the hell was that disgraceful and frankly disgusting exhibition that went on in Greenwich Arena on Saturday and Sunday? All I can say is that I am appalled at the level of incompetence shown by the vast majority of the Pentathlon riders in the sj phase. Those horses were absolute saints to have put up with some of the most ignorant and unbalanced riding I have ever witnessed. I don't even see this level of incompetance at local unaf shows!

Thank god none of the horses appear to be injured (well, not that we have been told about anyway - wouldn't surprise me if that poor one who got pulled over backwards yesterday has done some muscle damage)

If pentathlon competitors can't put in the effort and don't have the inclination to learn to ride and maintain regular ridden training sessions several times a week, which clearly most do not, then they should take this phase out of the competition. IMHO!
 
MissMincePie&Brandy said:
I thought the Olympics was a showcase of the best athletes in the world, something that everyone else should look up to and admire or even to aspire to...

So what the hell was that disgraceful and frankly disgusting exhibition that went on in Greenwich Arena on Saturday and Sunday? All I can say is that I am appalled at the level of incompetence shown by the vast majority of the Pentathlon riders in the sj phase. Those horses were absolute saints to have put up with some of the most ignorant and unbalanced riding I have ever witnessed. I don't even see this level of incompetance at local unaf shows!

Thank god none of the horses appear to be injured (well, not that we have been told about anyway - wouldn't surprise me if that poor one who got pulled over backwards yesterday has done some muscle damage)

If pentathlon competitors can't put in the effort and don't have the inclination to learn to ride and maintain regular ridden training sessions several times a week, which clearly most do not, then they should take this phase out of the competition. IMHO!
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The athletics pentathlon was a modern variation on the original events, with a competition over five track and field events. The modern pentathlon, invented by Pierre de Coubertin (father of the Modern Olympics), was a variation on the military aspect of the Ancient pentathlon. It focused on the skills required by a late 19th century soldier, with competitions in shooting, swimming, fencing, equestrianism, and cross country running.
A prominent aspect of modern pentathlons is the points system, whereby each competitor is awarded a certain number of points based on their performance in each specific event. The overall winner is the competitor with the highest points total at the end of the five pentathlon events.

So without this originally there would be no olympics:rolleyes:
 
Nothing wrong with the concept of the Modent Pentathlon - it's just that for some inexplicable reason, it appears nobody told the competitors they'd have to ride a real horse until just before the showjumping.

If the riding part was taken seriously, then I can definitely see the appeal. It looks like great fun, and reminds me of a Country Sports triathlon I did many years ago - fly-casting, clay-pigeon shooting and a working hunter course.

Hm. Thinking now i should trademark that...
 
Couldn't agree more. If they can't put in the training then a different sport should be included. If it is 'modern', how about some form of cycling? At least the bike won't lose it's confidence.
All the horses were saints but some looked fairly traumatised by the time they finished. Very few riders patted them or thanked them in some way.
I also got cross with the commentator(s) who kept trying to stress that it was a test of the riders skill and, when there was no skill, never once expressed any concern for the horses at all.
I should think some people wished they hadn't lent their horses for the competition.
 
Haha said:
The athletics pentathlon was a modern variation on the original events, with a competition over five track and field events. The modern pentathlon, invented by Pierre de Coubertin (father of the Modern Olympics), was a variation on the military aspect of the Ancient pentathlon. It focused on the skills required by a late 19th century soldier, with competitions in shooting, swimming, fencing, equestrianism, and cross country running.
A prominent aspect of modern pentathlons is the points system, whereby each competitor is awarded a certain number of points based on their performance in each specific event. The overall winner is the competitor with the highest points total at the end of the five pentathlon events.

So without this originally there would be no olympics:rolleyes:
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There would also have been a pretty high death rate of animals used in the original Olympics.

Times have changed, and no one wants to see horses having their teeth pulled out, huge unbalanced dead weights bouncing off those poor horses spines, poor horses being driven into 1.2m fences on the worst possible line, etc, etc. Some horses became visibly distressed.

Perhaps Pentahlon should do prelim dressage test instead :p. I think most of those riders could just about manage a prelim without causing too much distress to those horses.
 
From the results of the riding phases in both mens and womens it's quite clear it can't be influential enough other wise much more time would be spent on learning even the rudiments of riding.It's also a lottery as in the case of the poor s.. who had the ride the mare who'd been traumatised by it's "lovely" experience in it's 1st round. Scrap riding and replace it with say an army style agility course, then we'd see really fit athletes unlike a fair few carrying a good amount of over weight on the run. Oh yes by the way I did x country running at international level so have a fair idea as to the standard of that too! For anybody asking why I then didn't do Modern Pentathlon....didn't really exist in my day, certainly didn't as an Olympic event and I had to go out and earn a living!
 
In total agreement with your sentiments, MissMincePie&Brandy! I cannot watch that phase of the Pentathlon. I'm not worried about the riders - my concern is for those poor, traumatised, stressed horses. For the sake of welfare and common sense, let the competitors ride a bike!!
 
I think if they're going to keep it in the competition then they ought to adjust the scoring so that it's more influential: that's the only thing that would make the ahtletes prioritise putting the right training in. On the one hand you have to hand it to them: it's fairly brave to bundle on down to a 1'20 fence on a horse you're barely in control of, with your heels up round your ears, not even the sligtest whiff of a stride and hanging on to the poor soul's mouth for grim death. So if they were forced to take it more seriously some of them could be half decent.
 
philamena said:
it's fairly brave to bundle on down to a 1'20 fence on a horse you're barely in control of, with your heels up round your ears, not even the sligtest whiff of a stride and hanging on to the poor soul's mouth for grim death.
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:-) It would be part bravery, part hilarious if it weren't for the poor horses on the other end of it.

I agree, the marking system has to change. Which other Olympic sport allows you to have two refusals i.e. failures, and then go round that challenge to the next? :confused: The whole thing is insane
 
I agree too. It would be a shame to lose the modern pentathlon which is a nice link back to the re-founding of the games but as it is the competitors look stupid and the horses suffer.
 
Koala Kate said:
Well they should darn well learn to ride then is its that important
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MissMincePie&Brandy said:
Is a lot of money involved? Must be or else why risk a perfectly nice horse?
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Also to say that their horse had been to the Olympics??

I haven't seen it this year yet, but keep hearing that it was an improvement on Beijing.

The fences are too big. They need lowering to 1.05 and some penalties need to be worked out for style too. How many of us complaining would get on a strange horse, with 20 mins to warm up, and only allowed 5 practice fences, and then go round a 1.20m course? I sure as heck wouldn't!
 
Honey08 said:
Also to say that their horse had been to the Olympics??

On another thread one poster informed everyone that two of the horses used had been bought 'through them' and that their friend owned a grey that had been getting lots of positive comments. And guess what.... It's for sale! I guess it bests an ad in HHO classifieds :D

How many of us complaining would get on a strange horse, with 20 mins to warm up, and only allowed 5 practice fences, and then go round a 1.20m course? I sure as heck wouldn't!
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I'm sorry but this such a total non-argument. I wouldn't get on a bike with no brakes and hurtle around a velodrome, or throw myself backwards off a 10 meter board either. But I expect those who go to the Olympics to be able to do things I could never do. Otherwise I'd be there!

The Pentathletes are not amateurs, they are professional athletes and should perform as such in every discipline of their sport.
 
There are a few fundamental problems with training for Modern Pentathlon. Because of the nature of the scoring,running and swimming give the most opportunity to gain points. A male athlete in his 20 s is unlikely to be particularly proficient in riding. There are insufficient numbers of training hours in a day for a competitor to become really proficient. Somthing has to loose out. A further problem , which is seen even within the pony club tetrathlon championships is that male riders who train to run and swim, loose a great deal of agility and tend to be top heavy. Frankly ,the standard of the senior boys tetrathlon,ON THEIR OWN HORSES demonstrates all the same problems as Modern Pentathlon. I feel it is rather judgemental to criticise competitors who train probably 60 hours a week or more for years, prior to the games.
 
Mike007 said:
There are a few fundamental problems with training for Modern Pentathlon. Because of the nature of the scoring,running and swimming give the most opportunity to gain points. A male athlete in his 20 s is unlikely to be particularly proficient in riding. There are insufficient numbers of training hours in a day for a competitor to become really proficient. Somthing has to loose out. A further problem , which is seen even within the pony club tetrathlon championships is that male riders who train to run and swim, loose a great deal of agility and tend to be top heavy. Frankly ,the standard of the senior boys tetrathlon,ON THEIR OWN HORSES demonstrates all the same problems as Modern Pentathlon. I feel it is rather judgemental to criticise competitors who train probably 60 hours a week or more for years, prior to the games.
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Well described- I can see the issues. So should it still be in the sport if the standard is going to be so low? (Genuine question, not pointed.)
 
BeesKnees said:
Really? Perhaps someone should tell Jesica Ennis, or the Decathletes. they seem to manage to do even more ;)
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But they dont then have to drive to a suitable stables and then train to showjump. Also ,the skills to ride well arnt learnt in a school . MP in its hayday was the sport for the cavalry of all the olympic countries. Men who rode all day every day. So what do we do to improve things. Oddly enough ,the first thing to do is make the RUN a hell of a lot longer. 10 k would be a good benchmark. This would have the effect of raising the general age of competitors.It would tend to reduce the scoring effect of the swimming and running. Competitors would also have more time to learn to ride well. Riding regularly is not good for fast runners , it has far less effect on distance runners. We need to make it a lot harder for the young "racing snakes".younger athletes tend to be faster over short distances but lack endurance.
 
I would hate to see the jumping phase of the pentathlon removed, but I do think some changes do need to be made to the format to make it better for the horses involved.

For example, a horse fall or three refusals should terminate the round. This shouldn't mean elimination from the entire competition, but the competitor would only gain points from the obstacles he has already jumped. (This is similar to the rules in Pony Club Tetrathlon). This would have the double benefit of stopping the poorest riders struggling around the entire course, plus would increase the significance of this phase in the scoring, so encouraging athletes to focus more on training for this phase.

The course should be designed to be progressive, with the lower fences and easier turns/distances at the beginning, with the harder obstacles and combinations towards the end.

Perhaps they need to allow the competitors a little more time and a few more practice obstacles to get to know their mounts before entering the arena. (At present only 20 mins and 5 practice jumps allowed, I believe).
 
couldnt agree with you more.

did any of you see that poor horse that jumped over the entrance gates because the rider was cantering towards it, maybe thinking "oh he'll stop at the gate, as i cant seem to stop him, or put him on a circle" don't think she had the brains, luckily no one was injured or jumped onto on the other side of the entrance gate, as far as i know.

and that poor horse that kept getting the smack and spurs in his ribs, i know the whip is to back up you leg aid but to me he just needed the confidents of that rider and her smacking him when he kept refusing, i didnt like, but thats just me :o
 
Mike007 said:
But they dont then have to drive to a suitable stables and then train to showjump. Also ,the skills to ride well arnt learnt in a school . MP in its hayday was the sport for the cavalry of all the olympic countries. Men who rode all day every day. So what do we do to improve things. Oddly enough ,the first thing to do is make the RUN a hell of a lot longer. 10 k would be a good benchmark. This would have the effect of raising the general age of competitors.It would tend to reduce the scoring effect of the swimming and running. Competitors would also have more time to learn to ride well. Riding regularly is not good for fast runners , it has far less effect on distance runners. We need to make it a lot harder for the young "racing snakes".younger athletes tend to be faster over short distances but lack endurance.
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I take your point - to a point. To be honest, you don't need to ride that regularly to be taught how to sit in balance over a fence and how to use your body to slow a horse rather than perching and tugging the reins.

There are people riding better than that who have one lesson a week. In fact, I was definitely better than that on one lesson a week when I was returning to riding after a break and getting back up to speed preparing to buy my horse. And that was genuinely on one lesson a week, no more, and jumping a strange horse each lesson. Fact is, they obviously don't see the riding phase as influential enough. Not their fault, they'll prioritise, so the system needs changing.
 
The riding should be dressage. That would test the riders more accurately and fairly without frightening and endangering the horses so much. It would give the good riders a decent chance to show what they can do without all the unlucky poles down they get in jumping, but it would still show up the muppets. In fact it would probably mean they'd get the score they deserve as a rider not the score an amazingly honest, careful horse somehow pulls off in spite of them. I bet there aren't many dressage schoolmasters that can still pull off the movements and a good score with jockeys who can't press the buttons!

It might also help non horsey folk understand how tricky dressage actually is too.

ETA - comedy dressage might be easier to enjoy without having to worry for the horses quite so much ;)
 
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well i knew nothing about pentathalon until i saw this thread and just watched some of the sj phase. Frankly im horrified. Poor ruddy honest horses being ruined. Why do people allow their horses to be used for this:confused:
 
philamena said:
I take your point - to a point. To be honest, you don't need to ride that regularly to be taught how to sit in balance over a fence and how to use your body to slow a horse rather than perching and tugging the reins.

There are people riding better than that who have one lesson a week. In fact, I was definitely better than that on one lesson a week when I was returning to riding after a break and getting back up to speed preparing to buy my horse. And that was genuinely on one lesson a week, no more, and jumping a strange horse each lesson. Fact is, they obviously don't see the riding phase as influential enough. Not their fault, they'll prioritise, so the system needs changing.
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Sorry to disagree, I have yet to meet someone who has one lesson a week and doesnt have a horse ,who can walk out and get on a strange horse and compete round a course of 1.20. I have on the other hand seen plenty of "riders" who can look wonderfull on a horse ,in a school with only one lesson a week.I have also sadly witnessed some of these riders coming seriously to greif when they actualy had to ride in a real situation.I do agree with you that the situation needs changing though.
 
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