Why use a ''not fully qualified'' EDT?

[Hollycat]

The guy I used to use down south was not on the list. However he does a lot of top dressage horses (olympic level) and does a fantastic job. That is good enough for me.

As part of my curent job I check the teeth and health of equines in our care. Compare the work done by vets v EDT and it is terrible. Many vets still do not use a gag!!!!!!! I woud always use a qualified EDT over an unqualified person or vet unless I knew the unqualified person/vet was actually the better technition. After all if you have toothache you go to the dentist, not the dr!

As someone else said - as with anything you get people that are good at their job and people that are bad at it.

 

[VictoriaEDT]

cbmcts: I charge £45 and I know at least 3 up north that charge £35 and a few in the south that are £45-50.

 

[Hollycat]

Personally I think £45 is cheap considering how much this benefits the horse. Most people don't blink at paying £50 for shoes every 6 weeks so £45 for an EDT every 6 months is a bargain!

 

[VictoriaEDT]

you are my new favourite person!!!

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

This is something that does actually drive me mad - BEVA isnt the be all and end all that people think it is.

My dentist is a certified EDT trained in America and does lots of work abroad for well known Equine charities - he isnt on that BEVA list so my peoples thoughts he must be rubbish?? he must be fly by night???

Lol IT REALLY ANNOYS ME as i too have used one of those on the list while my EDT was off with severe health issues and he was booked in to do 4 horses and i asked him to leave my yard after starting just one - he was rough, violent and im positive was scared of the horses and was being aggressive to cover this.

With my own EDT I do however have happy horses when they are done, his work is second to none and i trust him with my most nervous youngsters to bargy to55ers as i know he will never take a strike in anger!

So if im negligent by not using an EDT from the holy BEVA list then so be it!


ETS -AND YES HE IS INSURED!!!!

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]


My dentist is a certified EDT trained in America and does lots of work abroad for well known Equine charities - he isnt on that BEVA list so my peoples thoughts he must be rubbish?? he must be fly by night???



[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with a horse dentist who is 'just' American 'certified' is that there is - as far as I'm aware - no independent certification of equine dentists in the USA - they are 'certified' by the school at which they've trained.

Now if it's a GOOD school that sets and maintains high standards, that's fine! They are probably just as competent as an EDT - and many BEVA EDT's trained at the good schools in the USA before coming back here to sit the BEVA exam. BUT, some of the colleges will 'certify' anyone who pays for a basic course and doesn't kill a horse in the process.

Not ALL BEVA EDT's are perfect - but at least if you use a BEVA EDT there is someone to complain to if the work is not up to a competent standard. AND their competence has already been thoroughly checked by someone other than a self-styled 'college' that is making money out of training and certification.

 

[cbmcts]

[ QUOTE ]
cbmcts: I charge £45 and I know at least 3 up north that charge £35 and a few in the south that are £45-50.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd happily pay £45 but the cheapest I've come across for a qualified EDT has been £55 some years ago and on top of that you have to add travel costs as there is no one BEVA qualified in Essex.

There are a few "qualified" EDT (including a vet) in the area but my experience of them, probably because I have a diificult horse hasn't been great - while I understand that they are not prepared to be injured (nor do I expect them to risk injury by the way) their horse handling/sense leave a lot to be desired IMO. There is no point in being fantastic with their teeth if you can't get near the horses mouth

In saying all that

I am aware that my muppet horse is at fault here and I do think that having the exam and registration is a good idea, there is still room for someone who isn't highly qualified but has that knack with the difficult horses.......I'm not knocking anyone who has worked their b*tts off to do everything by the book and get their BEVA status.But there are good and bad in every area and because my area hasn't got a lot of choice re EDTs there is an attitude that they don't need to deal with my scatty animal - plenty of work elsewhere maybe?

 

[Indy]

Why aren't qualified people on the list?

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


My dentist is a certified EDT trained in America and does lots of work abroad for well known Equine charities - he isnt on that BEVA list so my peoples thoughts he must be rubbish?? he must be fly by night???



[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with a horse dentist who is 'just' American 'certified' is that there is - as far as I'm aware - no independent certification of equine dentists in the USA - they are 'certified' by the school at which they've trained.

Now if it's a GOOD school that sets and maintains high standards, that's fine! They are probably just as competent as an EDT - and many BEVA EDT's trained at the good schools in the USA before coming back here to sit the BEVA exam. BUT, some of the colleges will 'certify' anyone who pays for a basic course and doesn't kill a horse in the process.

Not ALL BEVA EDT's are perfect - but at least if you use a BEVA EDT there is someone to complain to if the work is not up to a competent standard. AND their competence has already been thoroughly checked by someone other than a self-styled 'college' that is making money out of training and certification.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes this is true - but 18 years of experience says enough for me - ive been using him since i was 7....

As for the BEVA ones being checked - spot checks would be good as some of them are no better than a vet and its supposed to be their profession....

 

[PaintboxEDT]

because they dont have the BEVA recognition,if you read the BEVA website it eplains what you have to do before you are able to sit their exam.the 300 cases that they want you to do before you sit the exam are easy to get but it is the 40 advanced cases that are not so easy,purely because you dont come across them very often,meaning that it can be a while before you get all the cases together to go for your BEVA.

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
because they dont have the BEVA recognition,if you read the BEVA website it eplains what you have to do before you are able to sit their exam.the 300 cases that they want you to do before you sit the exam are easy to get but it is the 40 advanced cases that are not so easy,purely because you dont come across them very often,meaning that it can be a while before you get all the cases together to go for your BEVA.

[/ QUOTE ]

So to become qualified you have to be expert in something you aren't going to need to use

Is BEVA the best qualification to have? Who decided that BEVA is the be all and end all of horse dentistry? Would that be the people that founded BEVA and got round to marketing it and own BEVA and make money from BEVA? Why is BEVA better?

Why is someone who does not have BEVA not fully qualified? That is like saying I am not a Chartered Accountant because I studied CIMA and not ACCA. There is no legal requirement for someone to be a BEVA is there?

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]

Is BEVA the best qualification to have? Who decided that BEVA is the be all and end all of horse dentistry? Would that be the people that founded BEVA and got round to marketing it and own BEVA and make money from BEVA? Why is BEVA better?

Why is someone who does not have BEVA not fully qualified? That is like saying I am not a Chartered Accountant because I studied CIMA and not ACCA. There is no legal requirement for someone to be a BEVA is there?

[/ QUOTE ]

CIMA and ACCA are both - I believe - RECOGNISED qualifications. If you said you'd trained with Joe Blogs' school of accounting - or bought your qualification as a voucher with your pack of Wheat-bix you would NOT be qualified.

There is no legal requirement (at present) for ANY qualification for equine dentistry - anyone can buy a mouth-gag, a set of rasps and a galvanised bucket and try to destroy your horse's mouth for profit!!

BEVA is the British Equine Veterinary Association - in the UK, the BEVA qualification is the only RECOGNISED and quality-controlled qualification. But anyone can choose any cowboy with a set of rasps to do their horses' teeth. Not me!

 

[eoe]

cbmcts - where in Essex are you because Stuart Garrad does my horses and has done for quite a few years now and he does an awful lot of horses in Essex and also spends 1 to 2 days a month at my vets as well and he charges £40 Per horse.

Be very careful if you use and unqualified EDT because if they cause a problem and you have to get the vet out you may well find out to your cost that your insurance company won't pay as they are not a recognised EDT.

 

[PaintboxEDT]

the things that they say you can do after becoming BEVA recognised are permissable but not legal at the moment,and most have to be under vet supervision,the same as before you have got the BEVA,it is also not a qualification as such it is just BEVA recognising that you are competant at your job,and to get the BEVA you have to do alot of horses to build up the cases,its ironic really,obviously i do not condone the people that pick up tools and try to do the job,they are wrong for doing this but the trained ones should be given a little slack,it doesnt always make them bad dentists just because they have not sat the BEVA yet but also it doesnt always make them good dentists if they have !!!

 

[JLav]

I still don't know why my local EDT's aren't on the list?

Doug Vieweg sat the first ever BEVA/BVDA exam and passed with distinction so why is he not on the list? When BEVA printed the first list of those who had passed in the Horse and Hound he was on it.

His son Simon also sat and passed the exam.

 

[Araminta]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I use one that is not on there but has qualifications from America and I wouldnt change him for anything. He is great with my horses and improved one of my mares from his first visit (after wanting a second opinion from using one that was UK qualified) I have used him for 4 years now

[/ QUOTE ]

You know what - this always makes me a bit cross because I know that the people that set up the society in the first place trained in the States before they got together and worked out the exams then got the vets on side. - I have no problem with that - I just find it very strange that the people who they like to say are "not qualified" are the ones who did the very same training as they did!!!!!!!!!!! a bit double standards I think.

Of course there are good and bad people in any trade. Also, some people are classed as good by most clients but there will always be personality clashes ( both human and horse)

I know of some very good " unqualified" people that have horses best interests at heart and would be far more experienced than those who are newly qualified.

Yes of course there will always be the cowboys out there but I always find that word of mouth is the best recommendation you can get - qualified or not !

 

[Araminta]

[ QUOTE ]
I still don't know why my local EDT's aren't on the list?

Doug Vieweg sat the first ever BEVA/BVDA exam and passed with distinction so why is he not on the list? When BEVA printed the first list of those who had passed in the Horse and Hound he was on it.

His son Simon also sat and passed the exam.

[/ QUOTE ]



There are several that I can think of not on that list!

 

[VictoriaEDT]

For some of those that dont see my point of view, i think it is because you have not seen some horrendous/damaging work that I have.

This profession needs regulating and I cannot understand why people cant see this.

 

[ponydentist]

Why did you not complain to the BAEDT (British Association of Equine Dental Technicians).....thats what it is there for...so you can complain if you are not happy....it is our professsions regulating body...designed to look at things like this and improve STANDARDS....But remember...you cant complain about those who are NOT registerd though (and if you aint Qualified....you aint registerd....they wont even be Insured if anything goes wrong because the ONLY Insurance company providing medical malpractice insurance for EDTs will only supply cover to Qualified EDTs and to earn the title EDT (Equine Dental Technician) you have to be qualified. If someone doesnt keep up the standard of work required to qualify ....they can be investigated and discipinary action taken against them.....so why didnt you complain if you wernt happy. These things are there to protect YOU....the general horse owning public for whom we provide a service. (personally I work for your horse)

 

[ponydentist]

Doug and Simon Veiwig are not on th Current BEVA list of approved dentists simply because they have chosen not to renew their membership of the BAEDT (British Association of Equine Dental Technicians) for the same reasons as I did two years ago (I have since renewed).

They are Both Qualified. There are others who are not on the list but who are, nevertheless qualified, they simply are not current members of the BEVA...or they may be Qualified through the ONLY other approved qualifying agency for Equine Dental Qualifications, WWAED (World Wide Association of Equine Dentistry).

So, In short......You can be QUALIFIED through the BEVA (British Equine Veterinary Association)...or the WWAED . If you qualify through the BEVA, you are eligible for membership of the BRITISH ASSOCIATION of EQUINE DENTAL TECHNICIANS...and ONLY if you join the BAEDT, will you be placed on the list on the BAEDT website and the BEVA website.

If you choose to QUALIFY through the WWAED, you are not eligible for membership of the BAEDT (because there are some people in each association who dont like each other).

BUT....the most important thing to remember here is not about where and how you qualified.....but the very fact that you HAVE qualified is PROVING to the EXAMINING BODY of either organisition that you are capable, and competant and knowledgable and skillfull enough to prtovide the required "STANDARD" of treatment......and that is what all the fuss....and certainly my biggest bloody problem. There are people out there (veterinary and non veterinary) leaving work undone, leaving horses in pain and discomfort and taking money from good people simply because they DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE REQUIRED STANDARD OF TREATMENT IS ......BECAUSE THEY WONT....or CANT get qualified.

Most of the time they have no desire to get qualified because you lot are paying them anyway regardless...so why should they.....why does someone with some "CLOUT" in the horse world not highlight this problem.

Stop employing the unqualified....think about your horse wekfare instead of your pocket .....and then see the size of the Que to sit the exam.

 

[brighteyes]

Me, I have Paul Waudby and wouldn't let anyone else within 100 miles of my horses now

Thorough, patient and explains everything. Kind and fair on the horses. I can't recommend him highly enough. Oh and very reasonable charges

He puts the minis on a table to do them. Not really

I think he lies down, but don't quote me!

 

[ponydentist]

AAARGHH!...God I could pull my hair out over this.

Kristal....your EDT ...(if it is GD) is a USA certified (means he passed the certification exam through the Academy in IDAHO).....many years ago....the exam standard has improved since then)...He then came back to the UK....DIDNT work to nthat standard.....sat the BEVA exam....AND FAILED .....TWICE.....because he wasnt good enough....simple as that...he failed ALL parts of it, PRACTICAL, THEORY, the whole lot.....thats why he isnt on the list. He does lots of charity work abroad...AND.....(and heres the most shocking part)...He started up a Equine Dental Training Course over here in the UK (one week Duration). This Training course is the most attended course for people wishing to become Equine dental practitioners in the UK....which means that there are.LOADS and LOADS of people out there doing your horses teethwho have attended a ONE WEEK COURSE, which was run by a guy who failed the Industry standard exam....TWICE...because he couldnt treat horses to the required standard and didnt possess enough knowledge of his subject to pass a theoretical exam either.

what do you make of that.???

IF you are wanting to know if a practitioner is QUALIFIED or not......CONTACT the BEVA....or the BAEDT and ask them....give them the name of the person concerned and they will have lists of all people who have sucessfully completed ALL the required elements of the INDUSTRY STANDARD EXAM ....If they have passed the exam, they are "Qualified".....regardless of weather they are a member of an association. Remember there are practitioners who have FAILED the exam (VETERINARY and NON VETERINARY...because the exam is open to both because there is NO OTHER similar exam within the Veterinary profession which is specific to EQUINE DENTISTRY ) who are still out there doing your horses teeth.

In this country, The Industry standard exam is the only thing that says weather or not an equine dental practitioner is "GOOD" or not. If you are "GOOD", you will pass the exam....if you are not as good as you think you are....you wont.

If you are employing a practitioner.....VETERINARY...or non Veterinary who hasnt passed the exam....ask them why......What have they got to hide???? The people who have passed the exam have put in the effort and hard work to prove to YOU that they are "GOOD".

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

What do i make of that?? err well nothing cos i know he runs the dental college.

Do you feel threatened by him or something? as i fail to see why u would be so unprofessional to practically name him and then slate him on an open forum???

 

[brighteyes]

<font color="blue">AAARGHH!...God I could pull my hair out over this. </font>

I think you probably could - but don't! I have been there, with all the other owners, totally unaware of the lack of expertise and legitimate qualifications held by the tooth rasper (and his ilk) who attended to my horses' teeth. Luckily, it appears that, whilst he did no harm, he didn't do a lot of good either

Once I made my mind up to get to the bottom of it, I found it relatively simple to find someone willing to take time to explain the ins and outs of it all and then find an EDT who ticked all the boxes

It's something you don't like to admit or face up to, the fact you have (albeit unwittingly) allowed a cowboy to perform invasive procedures on your animals with no real proof of either valid qualifications to do so or having actually done anything at all to improve or rectify problems in the mouth.

Whilst confusion reigns as to who exactly has passed the latest industry standard exams and why they might not be on the list (if you can work out which list is THE one) then you are going to get those happy to exploit this leaky bucket of a 'profession'.

Ask Victoria to point you in the right direction. She will.

 

[ponydentist]

Right....Victoria has put "the list" up on here now so you can all see it....just to help you out a bit...the Vets who have bothered to prove their skill and knowledge of this specialist subject...are the ones with MRCVS after their names. See how many...OOPS...how FEW there are.

Would you use an un registerd....un qualified FARRIER?

Would you take your kids to se a dentist who had only done a one week course...(or as is the case with many vet ED practitioners....a 3 DAY course)

Equine Dentistry is a SCIENCE and as such is progressive....if you dont move with the times....you get left behind. What you are doing now might be obsolet. If youve had good traing...AND KEEP IT UP...you will be able to say you are good at what you do! if you are good....you will be able to prove it....pas ANY test....right? or wrong?

 

[NR99]

I use an EDT from the list and he was recommended by my vet to boot, as the vet appreciated he was a specialist in the field in the exact same way a farrier is.

EDT's you are fighting a losing battle with the Qual/Unqual war, as whilst people perceive someone is doing a good job they will not change, but the tide turns eventually with those that find they were wrong and once they find help from a good EDT they are converted.

 

[ponydentist]

NO....I dont feel theatened by him.....or anyone else within the profession. Just annoyed that he is churning out "dentists" who profess to be expert and who are taking money off " vunerable" horse owners who have very little choice but to believe what such people are telling them. I have to go in behind such people, as do many of my collegues and tidy up the mess left by them. It is not he fault of such people who have trianed by this route eithe rif they are being told that what they are doing is sufficient......its just a case of the blind leading the blind.....And I do Know hat I am talking about because IN MY EARLY NIEVITY, I was asked, (and did for a while) to instruct and teach on the courses he was running.S were some of my collegues, who also quit for the same reasons. I stopped because I didnt agree with the principles and methodology of such training. He was allowing people to go out and practice who had attended the courses who just werent "up to it". Some of these people then went on to become teachers on the courses and the whole thing became a BUSINESS venture rather than an outlet to service a need within the Equine Medical market.

So, yes I have practically named and shamed......but you have the nerve to call me UN professional after what he is doing to the whole Industry....hmmmm!

It is a FACT that the Quality of Equine Dentistry training in the UK is far less than that which is available in the USA. Thats why many of us went there....it was three times more expensive...but well worth the expense, time and effort.

The certification exam through the Academy in Idaho takes place over a two week period over which candidates are examined on at least 14 horses, ponies or Mules. Many of these cases involve very ADVANCED treatment procedures and those examining are MASTER Dentists, Including eminant Veterinary surgeons and Human Dental Surgeons.

The BEVA exam, or the WWAED exam takes place over two days, on ONE horse. However, the standard of treatment required is very high...and the requirements to even be considered for examination are high....but its all there is over here.

 

[Vicki_Krystal]

I dont doubt your ability as a EDT at all - point is no names were mentioned until you brought it up.

 

[brighteyes]

<font color="blue"> EDT's you are fighting a losing battle with the Qual/Unqual war, as whilst people perceive someone is doing a good job they will not change, but the tide turns eventually with those that find they were wrong and once they find help from a good EDT they are converted.
</font>

Is exactly what I wanted to say. Or thought I had. Nicely put!

 

[ponydentist]

Maybe its about time names SHOULD be mentioned......Mine has a few times....Ive got NOTHING to hide. The good ones have been named.......why not name the ones who should be shamed?