Why use a ''not fully qualified'' EDT?

[LMuirEDT]

The actual category 1/2/3 stuff is not legal as yet, it is just a guideline. In order to sit the BEVA assessment you have to have done a certain amount of 'advanced' work which must have be signed off by a vet. If you couldn't do power work without being BEVA/WWAED assessed then how could you get the work signed off in order to take the assessment - think about it. I work alongside many vets in my area to work out a treatment plan for the horses I treat. Many vets have called me up to work with them.

 

[brighteyes]

The actual category 1/2/3 stuff is not legal as yet, it is just a guideline. In order to sit the BEVA assessment you have to have done a certain amount of 'advanced' work which must have be signed off by a vet. If you couldn't do power work without being BEVA/WWAED assessed then how could you get the work signed off in order to take the assessment - think about it. I work alongside many vets in my area to work out a treatment plan for the horses I treat. Many vets have called me up to work with them.

I agree completely, a person needs to do the work to become proficient and have no argument with that, providing it is properly supervised! What I was trying to establish was the extent of insurance cover with regard to the exams taken. My understanding is that only the BEVA/WWAEDT qualifying exams gave the medical negligence cover as well. I am quite prepared to believe you would have at least third party cover when working independently doing the procedures a BSc Hons in Equine Dental Science entitles you to do.

I am just being a bit pedantic because there are people out there claiming to be 'fully' insured when they are not, by virtue of their lack of recognised qualification/level of qualification.

Also it has been pointed out that the BEVA qualification, irrespective of current registration, does entitle you to insurance. My bad.

 

[LMuirEDT]

Have to admit I find insurance a bit confusing so basically went through over the phone all the possible situations I could think of (injury to horse/handler/me, negligence, etc) to see if i would be covered and I am. Probably sounded like a right loon but thought it was better to check these things out. So far not needed to test any of it out and don't intend to any time soon! LOL!

 

[lannerch]

I usually use geraint hughes who is on the list, last year however I could not make the day he visited my yard and anxious to get my horse seen too I rung a local person calling themselves an equine edt who is certainly not on the list or beva qualilfied to visit my horse with the oppnion it would be better than the horse not being seen at all. She had the following letters after her name EqDt IAED.

She came spent about 10 minuites on my horse filled in a chart which said generalised excessive transverse ridging buccal rims minor ingual nhs advanced bitseat and balance, sounds all very impressive so far, and charged me £35 saying she would need to see him in a years time.
Luckily a month later I was in the yard only to see geraints car pull up, he was meant to be at the neighbouring yard so I managed to get him to fit me in. He spent over half an hour on my horse who remember had been seen only a month previous, let me feel before and after all the very sharp points on his teeth which were making him sore.

For that I was charged £45 a bargain in comparison.

My equine vets also recomend geraint and you can book him through them.

I know which one I will always in future be using to me its a no brainer, a service that has been shown to be an aproved standard or someone that possibly has atended a couple of day courses!

 

[lannerch]

Have just found the sheet the unqualifed edt filled in on the day, all sounds very impressive I wonder if she puts it for all her clients it says etr311 generalised excessive transverse ridging buccall rims minor lingual rims advanced bitseat and balance.

And I wonder why if this is the case she did not do anything that rectified the problem that is except charge me £35!

 

[ponydentist]

just for the record and to apease all those who have asked me to I'll come out of hiding. If you look on a post in this thread by "mrdarcy" you will see that (at bottom of his post) he is a client of mine and anyone wishing to know more can google me and view the website. My comments on here havve upset a few people but hopefully have enlightened a lot more....and hopefully tried to ensure that a lot of horses are recieving a proprer standard of dental care.

Equine Dentistry is a Science and as such is ever progressing and changing. New developments in instrumentation and techniques are occuring all the time. In the 11 years I have been practicing, proceedures once thought necessary have become obsolete and new ones replaced them. New materials are being used by me and the few other practitioners who specialise in certain areas of equine dentistry. When I first started out, restorations (e.g fillings) and other areas such as periodontal treatments were only just being considered as treatable. I trained with a practitioner who pioneered modern treatments of such problems and am now able to carry out proceedures and treatments not once thought possible.

I am passionate about what I do and my method of working incorporates my other passion of horse behavioral studies and natural horsemanship if some wish to term it as such and my reputation is based around this way of working and my knowledge of subject. Not all practitioners work the same way, but by putting oneself up for examination and testing is, in my opinion, a declaration to my clients of commitment and dedication to my profession which in turn is a investment to them and some kind of surity that i know my stuff and am good at what i do.....not in the eyes of my clients....but in the eyes of those who hold.
any "clout" within my profession.

Whilst there are those practitioners who are working towards such qualifications........there are those who do not feel that they need to demonstrate to their clients that they are good. sadly in such cases this is because they are getting by on the money being paid to them by unsuspecting clients and as yet havent been found out. But they will be in time.

The horse owning public can dictate the way the whole equine dental profession is run. If they demanded that only competant practitioners who have demonstrated to theire superior peers that they are competant and capable of providing the correct level of treatment.....there would be no problems of inconsistency in equinedental treatments.....and.....the most important thing is......all horses would be recieving equal treatments.....because at the moment.....they are not.....not by a long chalk.

 

[brighteyes]

.

The horse owning public can dictate the way the whole equine dental profession is run. If they demanded that only competant practitioners who have demonstrated to theire superior peers that they are competant and capable of providing the correct level of treatment.....there would be no problems of inconsistency in equinedental treatments.....and.....the most important thing is......all horses would be recieving equal treatments.....because at the moment.....they are not.....not by a long chalk.

I'm pretty sure mine are

 

[chrisnapthineEDT]

also to add another point exams dont get run that freqent,ive been waiting nearly 2 years now and hope that there is one run this year but im still learning and will be every day i spend in the industry,,heaps of people out bthere think that they now know everything,,, i spent nearly 8k just last year on training and see that to keep up to date on advances and to keep my own skills up and not lapse into bad habits il have to continue to do this,,,,there is so much bad work been done out there you just wouldnt belive it,some done by registered some not,i for one wish to hell things would change but it dousnt look likely so all you can do is keep doing good work and keep educating clients but a lot of people class all dentists as one and the same..... but belive me there is a heap of difference between a 5 minute 20 quid job sometime without even a spec and the job that a another dentist will do(trying to word things right here ) work out my training and equipment cost each year!!! your talking 10 to 15 pounds per horse,,thats the difference between a 30 and a 50 quid job or a 20 and a 40...i could sell all my kit apart from a few floats,run blunt blades,not botherr with anything bad i see just do what i think,wear nice clothes and be very polite,flirt a bit and make all the right noises,maybe i would even remember your horses name,,,you would i guaruntee it say oh that chris what a nice lad,,,lovely fella..even remembered piggles name...hes always smart and on time,,has some lovely cards.... but my work would be s****t and to be honest without offence you wouldnt have a clue unless you got someone else to look but then why would you as you have had your horses teeth done!!!!!! personally i can never remember horses names unless i print out your last visit sheet,sometimes im late but i do let you know.im never clean shaven as i tend to resemble a fat potato...but if ive done your horse it will be done to a high standard,and if there is something remedial that needs doing il tell you show you and often take a picture,and if its something really bad that i cant do il refer you to someone who can(example of a severe shear moth martin brookes is doing for me next week),,,there is a lot of dentists who work like this.i know pony dentist,dan astle carter ect i cpould name loads who are,yet unfortunatly for you/us and most important your horses there is far more (oh hes a lovely fella) than there are us...and on insurance i have full surgical cover its called a new policy for wwaed members from the nfu covering me for all hand and power work

 

[brighteyes]

lannerch

Don't think you are alone - I was ripped off for years. And I feel I let my horses down. Least you only made an error of judgement the once...

 

[brighteyes]

chrisnapthine

I think the word is getting out. I have converted loads of people over to using a properly trained, qualified EDT who believes in keeping abreast with all the latest developments and is passionate about his work. It took a huge amount of courage to ring this guy up and 'challenge' his credentials. To his credit, he wasn't the least bit offended and my biggest regret is that I didn't find him sooner. There are at least twenty horses round me now getting the treatment they ought to have been getting years ago. I suppose that's something to feel better about.

Publicity and awareness through forums shouldn't be under- estimated, and I found my EDT through Google.

The charlatans and cowboys will eventually be hounded out - one way or another. I personally can't wait.

 

[eventer_girl]

At the risk of sounding obsessed with ‘GD’ – I have reason to be – see my previous post – he now seems to be seeking to deceive people that he is BAEDT member by using a clever (or not so clever) play on words ....

http://www.essexfoxhounds.com/horse_health.htm

 

[ponydentist]

Hey Bright eyes, What have you got against Cowboys then?....I actually was one....a real one..... for two years when I lived in the states....lol.

Eventer Girl; dont worry, the Whole Equine Dental Industry knows about GD and the way he runs the Shires equine dental College. I know first hand better than anyone what Im talking about here. I used to be one of the principle lectures and instructors for that organisiation.....I belieive your course notes on dental ageing and several other subjects still have my name written on them..... I know exactly how it operates and believe me. There are many within the Equine Dental profession who are very displeased with the way The Shires equine Dental College is churning out so called EDT's and flooding the market with dissolusioned students and letting them loose on the poor unsuspecting horse owning public out there. The main problem with Equine Dental training in the UK is that there is nothing over here which is on a parr with the training oppertunities that are available in other countries and the USA is by far leading the way forward in Equine Dentistry without a shadow of a doubt. When I started out, there was nothing here for Equine Dental training other than what the BEVA were offering....a two day course.This is why many of us have chosen to go down the USA route. It is extreemely expensive, but when investing in a lifetime career learning oppertunity.....still one of the best available.

11 years down the line, very little has changed. Still the same BEVA two - three day courses...(for Vets) and now the Three year Equine Dental Science degree course which is very THEORY based but (offering very little in the way of actual hands on getting down to the nitty - gritty of dentistry) and of course the one week course which you have attended which is run by a twice failed BEVA practitioner and his students who have previously sat the course and are now the instructors.......blind leading the blind. So dont worry, we within the profession know all about what you are saying. You are not alone in your views and myself and many of my colleagues have enquiries from people who have attended the course you did and felt they couldnt justify going out there and purtaining to be Equine Dental Technicians.......but...on the other hand....a hell of a lot of other people who's ONLY training consists of this..... do go out and take money off people....and... such people are claiming to be "qualified". but what is most scary is that they are of the belief that they are "Fully trained" when in reality, they are only scratching the surface, both of the teeth they are working on....and of the subject of which they have chosen to study.

 

[eventer_girl]

Thank you Pony Dentist! ... I’m not surprised to hear you are contacted by lots of people who have been on the Shires course and felt as I did. It does surprise and shock me that many people armed only with this amount and standard of training go out their treating horses and are deluded enough to honestly think they have appropriate skill and competence. And from what I can gather and from what Pony Dentist says GD and his crew are churning out many more ‘dentists’ every year. The only solution is regulation??? I feel a fool for handing over my £ and going on the course in the first place!
Pony Dentist – I have nothing against real cow boys, just the GD types lol ........ I wondered if you or any one on hear that’s in the industry was aware of an associate of GD’s who runs courses in Germany with GD (six day courses like Shires) He is a Scottish man called ‘AW’ and works closely with Gary it would seem. I wonder how many more ‘dentists’ have undergone this training in Germany. For the German courses they call them selves the global equine dental college. I’m assuming that’s just as much a sham as Shires.?

 

[stencilface]

Only just seen this post, and not read all the replies

Our dentist could be qualified, but most likely not - we have never asked for any, and he certainly hasn't shown us any! But he is as old as the hills, and has been doing our horse for at least 10 years I think, and in that time (with many oldies and youngsters) we have never had any issues with the bridles, teeth, eating (apart from a pony that had few teeth) or their weight.

The only time we have a 'qualified' dentist who was a human dentist turned horse (did a course in the US I think?) the horses would not behave for him, I think he terrified them tbh. They almost never play up for our old jockey/gyspy dentist man. The dentist himself doesn't have many teeth left, but that doesn't stop him being capable of looking after my horses

 

[brighteyes]

Only just seen this post, and not read all the replies

Our dentist could be qualified, but most likely not - we have never asked for any, and he certainly hasn't shown us any! But he is as old as the hills, and has been doing our horse for at least 10 years I think, and in that time (with many oldies and youngsters) we have never had any issues with the bridles, teeth, eating (apart from a pony that had few teeth) or their weight.

The only time we have a 'qualified' dentist who was a human dentist turned horse (did a course in the US I think?) the horses would not behave for him, I think he terrified them tbh. They almost never play up for our old jockey/gyspy dentist man. The dentist himself doesn't have many teeth left, but that doesn't stop him being capable of looking after my horses

Yep, I had similar and fortunately (for all concerned) none had complicated mouths. So, a no frills, no quals tooth-rasper didn't do any harm - but only addressed the sharp edges.

I became uneasy (unlike my horses, it must be said) about the 'wham bam and that's 20quid' approach, his horrendous appointments diary (none whatsoever), dismissive attitude to me as an owner (I know what I am doing, don't ask me to tell you ANYTHING about what or why) and ever more sensational tales and horse-related gossip. He claimed to have qualifications but search as I might, I couldn't find him listed anywhere.

So I asked someone with plenty of easily verifiable qualifications, whether I was worrying unnecessarily. Turns out my suspicions were correct and, whilst he did no damage to mine, there is a trail of equine dental disasters in his wake - including one belonging to a good friend of mine.

I didn't question this guy's skill or experience for years. What worries me is, if it takes the devoted disciple of the horse's mouth (a fully qual'd EDT with CPD) many years of training and countless supervised and regulated treatments and observations of the plethora of equine dental complications and anomalies, which poor devils did your dentist learn his (presumably) self-taught skills on? It doesn't bear thinking about.

I have no idea why we ponder and fuss and cogitate, nay attend symposiums on bitting and feeding and fret about our horses being 'on the bit', and then let anyone who walks the walk, talks the talk or symply looks like he knows the job, loose on the subject of many of our daily anxieties! Well, not counting me and PD's other clients.

ponydentist

Have you got all you cowboy certificates for me to check and verify and run past the BCA, so I can believe your outlandish claims to such a thing? Or I may have to ask you to rope a steer and sit a bronco next time you are here with your bucket of rasps!