Why you DON'T use the cheapest manege quote... and pics

Thank you for the glue idea. We tried it a while ago - that's what the white stuff is on the second photo. I think because the membrane's been down a while, it's a bit grubby & has loose particles attached to it & is probs a bit damp. It held for a few months & I was hopeful that it was 'fixed', but as you can see, I got too excited too soon!

Diluteherd - would be fab if you could get yours finished. They really do add another dimension to what you can achieve schooling-wise.
Wench - no idea who made the membrane, I'm afraid!
ILF - can't believe your situation is so similar! I've had to sell my lorry, then the trailer I replaced it with, then my much-loved piano & drums to get the house sorted out (structurally unsound as previous owners had converted the attic without reinforcing the floor & it was built in the 1870s so not up to the weight). We had to live in the gym (between hay barn & tack room) for 6 months all thru winter. It was awful! I was previously doing lessons & competing BS/BD most weeks & now I can't do anything!

The plan is to sort the school so I can at least get a trainer to come to me, but we have a budget of v little. I think that if I finish sewing the edges & maybe get somemore surface so it 'knits' again, the surface will be good enough to do lessons, then I will have something to work towards.

T x
 
i am not sure if my concerns are reasonable but is it a good idea to joing the membrane with fishing line, it it comes up sgain surely the fishing line will be a safety risk.

about 4yrs ago the school where i kept my horses had various items rising up from the depths at one point a strip light casing complete with electrical wiring:eek::eek::eek:

the school had been 'professionally' installed :eek:

its shocking some of the stuff that goes on

i feel for you it is hard enough just moving a bit of surface around to level the school before harrowing let alone what you are doig
 
You could hold a 'patch up party'.

Get some wine in and invite everyone round to help you. Mighn't not get it all done when the wine kicks in, so get eveyone busy before the corks come off.
 
Oh God what a total nightmare for you - £12k is a hell of a lot of money, I'd be hunting the guy down and dragging him back to sort it out.

Unfortunately woodchip surfaces do break down into dust eventually - and if your drains fail, it will turn to mud - it's like putting a layer of woodchips in muddy gateways, works great for a few weeks, then when wet and trampled on they turn to mush and make the matter worse! Fortunately having the drains will at least stop this from happening but after a while you will be left with just a pile of dust!

I dont know how much a top up of your surface is but it might be worth looking at Carpet Fibre, we had a quote for a 20x40 top up and the cost was £1300 +vat delivered. At least this could be salvaged and re-used on your new school.
 
Would you happen to know if you can dump carpet fibre on top of worn out cushionride? That's about the same price I've found for topping up the cushionride & I'd rather top up with something that doesn't turn lethally slippy after a few years!

I've done one more edge today, inc sewing up 2 tears where it had torn, & I can honestly say that I am TOTALLY ****ed. Having a sit down n a cup of tea, then I'm gonna ride if it kills me, just for the fun of NOT tripping over in the bit that I've done!

T x
 
PS am liking the idea of a patch up party, but I think people would have to be pretty p*ss*d to want to have a go at the sewing cos it's *horrible* work... but on the other hand, it isn't the sort of thing that you could do while p*ss*d as you really do have to watch every stitch to make sure it's in the right place, you don't tangle your line etc.

Did really well re not stabbing myself today, then managed to stab myself really hard in the thumb on the very last stitch... FFS...!!

T x
 
Well I asked for a quote for a rubber/sand arena that is riding deep - have seen lots of positive posts about this product working well for arenas that are starting to fail etc.

Have a look at their website http://www.roadefibres.com/equestrian/default/copyright.asp I'm sure they will say yes, but maybe ask for some references, he told me of a livery yard Cambs way that I could go and see, good luck!
 
Ouch that sounds painful! 12k sounds like an awful lot of money to me :-( I hope you manage to get it useable again! Sounds like you are doing well!

I have a super old industrial type sewing machine that does very tough fabrics like leather etc, I guess you would have to plug it into an extension lead and somehow move it along the edges, shame you can't sew from just the top... Just thinking aloud! You would be welcome to use it if there were a way!
 
catembi said:
Are you **sure** that the lumps n bumps under the membrane are okay?
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OH says lumps and bumps are fine. Ideally that layer below the membrane should be a smaller sized stone than the layer below that (!) which would then roll out smoother but it would never be as smooth as glass. In a 20x40 school OH puts on no less than 200 to 250 tonnes of sand depending on the quality of sand, so the topping is so deep that the membrane is never uncovered. Some customers loose sand with the wind so they then get rubber or something similar in with the sand to stop that happening.

With building a sand arena the materials (quantity and quality) can't be skimped on. The actual labour charge shouldn't be that much - OH does them in about 2/3 days, minus the fencing. Obviously fencing can add to the cost quite a bit. If someone quotes for materials, you can always ring the local quarry to check on prices to make sure they're not adding loads on.
 
carpet fibre is lovely until it is dry and windy then it just all blows down to one end of the school, it also blocks up the tines on the harrow so you end up having to move it about and level by hand-or the stuff at our DIY yard does anyway
 
H'mm, we're quite windy cos we're in a flat area & the wind does tend to whistle a bit. When we get some £££ we're going to start hedge planting to try & give the horses a windbreak, but that won't be for a bit.

O/h is going to investigate sand as I *think* my perfect surface would be sand + rubber crumb. He was kind-of interested in the whole school thing, then Adrian came back from loan & he's started riding again, so he's now more focussed on schools & surfaces!

Might fence the whole thing as Trevor kindly dug a HUGE hole in the middle of the school once, then we can put up some of that windbreak fabric & hopefully lose less surface!

Today's photos:

Taking off surface

09sept12schoolday2001.jpg


The state of the stone underneath! How on Earth it's supposed to drain is beyond me. It is def NOT clean, washed stone. It is more like something you'd use to make a path from field to stables, i.e. almost like a road surface.

09sept12schoolday2002.jpg


09sept12schoolday2003.jpg


Strip 2 finished!

09sept12schoolday2005.jpg


I managed not to stab myself for the 3 or 3 1/2 hours that I was out there today, then on the last stitch of the day, stabbed my thumb v hard! How is it that my huge needle feels v blunt when I'm trying to sew with it & v sharp when it's going into my fingers...??

09sept12schoolday2006.jpg


T x
 
good grief that is dedication for you. hope you get it sorted soon, have you tried the blowtorch? large glass of wine (or 2) called for.
 
a couple of the best schools i have ever ridden in have been cockle shell and sand, not sure about cost or ease of supply but they are less likely to freeze, dont dry out so much and dont ride so deep
 
Ouch, you poor pet, you must be fuming. I know I would be!! 12K is not skimping, it's so frustrating, after spending that much, you'd expect to have someone to blame. Keep me posted, hope you get sorted, but what a shower of s***s. xx
 
Wow, what an absolute scumbag they are for doing that to you, very sorry :(

Bit of a dim question, I've seen membrane previously but always been curious why they fit it? Is it just to act as a barrier?

Good luck sorting it, looks like very hard work.
 
To be honest, I think I'd seek legal advice - even if the company has gone under, if (and granted its a big if!) they ha professional indemnity insurance you may still be able to claim from their insurance. I know mine covers me for X years after the work is done, regardless of whether or not the company still exists. I would hazard a guess that they did not have insurance though! I would also be wondering if I could go after the directors personally for some recompense, so I'd be looking for some legal advice I think.
 
milesjess - membrane is supposed to stop the surface (i.e. sand/cushionride/whatever) from blocking the stone drainage layer underneath.

**** knows what mine's doing - as you can see from the photos, we don't really have a drainage layer! There's drainage under there cos I saw it installed - there are pipes leading to the edges... then there should be a bottom membrane, then a layer of washed stone, then the top membrane, then the surface. Our middle layer is utter **** & I can't see how water would drain thru it. It's more like a rough road/track surface, like a farm track. It's made of all different bits n pieces... rubble, gravel, bits of granite like lumps of granite worktop the size of a knife sharpening stone, o/h says some of it is clay... So really n truly I think *that* needs to come up too.

Spottedcat - I've found the directors & they are now running a company from the same address, supplying climbing frames. Accounts are up to date according to Companies House. Not far away as only in south Herts.

I *think* my bank a/c gives me free legal help, so might be worth a call.

T x
 
I'm not one for legal action normally, but this is just infuriating and clearly substandard workmanship! It annoys me so much - There is no excuse for it if you are running a business.
 
The only thing is, UK Cushion was a ltd co, & I *think* (from a law module I did as part of my APMI) that liability is ltd to the extent of the co's assets & as it hasn't filed accounts since 2011, I would suspect that it doesn't have any...

I will ring the legal advice line anyway & see what they say cos the directors' current co does seem to be trading so they themselves would presumably have assets.

T x
 
It might be worth exploring the insurance angle then as I run a ltd company but my insurance is to the tune of several million for public liability and professional indemnity. As long as my policy was paid up when the incident happened, and the claim is bought within a certain amount of time, I think my insurers have to look at it.
 
OP so sorry for you that you are having all this trouble. It is just a nightmare but I really admire your determination.

We built an arena about 2 years ago, we didnt use membrane as hubby had been advised not to, as we sometimes use it to turn horses out in the winter while mucking out. We have a rubber crumb surface and lots of yellow pipe drainage underneath. He wrapped the membrane around the drainage pipes to stop pipes becoming blocked in the future if we decided to top up with sand. And then various layers of different sized stone on top, if you know what I mean. I know this wont be much help to you but maybe it might help someone else.

Very best of luck and may all your hard work be rewarded!
 
Woodchip is rubbish anyway, ours was done by Cushionride ,no membrane but they took some soil off put road plainings down then woodchip on top . Lovely for a couple of years but now it has rotted down and is just growing weeds. It is alright in the dry weather for our pony but never put the horses on it. Asked them if a top up would sort it but they were less than helpful.
 
carthorse said:
Woodchip is rubbish anyway, ours was done by Cushionride ,no membrane but they took some soil off put road plainings down then woodchip on top . Lovely for a couple of years but now it has rotted down and is just growing weeds. It is alright in the dry weather for our pony but never put the horses on it. Asked them if a top up would sort it but they were less than helpful.
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off topic...is that penfold in your sig?
 
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